Build my cycle

**EMZE** · 08-04-2017, 10:09 PM

Help me build my cycle(s).

5'7" 180lbs, 18% body fat. 6 cycles under my belt, but it has been a couple years since my last.

I have in my possession:

Gear
7500 mg sust 250
1750 mg tren ace
300 10mg var

Fat burners
200 25mcg T3
100 40mg Clen

Scrotum savers
20,000 iu hcg

PCT
100 20mg Nolva
100 50mg clomid
120 1mg Anastrazole

Goal is lean gains because I've got fat to lose and I'm hoping to replace the space the fat occupies with heavier and denser muscle. Plus I don't want to buy new clothes.

Diet is pretty on point. ~180-200g protein a day, healthy fats and carbs, no refined sugars, ~2500 cal a day.

How should I phase a ~16 week cycle with what I have? Should I break it up? Add anything? Money isn't an issue so I can add if need be.

Thanks in advance.

**songdog** · 08-05-2017, 06:42 AM

We don't do that you build and we check it out.Get your bf down beacuse it's most likely higher than you think.

**charger69** · 08-05-2017, 08:00 AM

To go a little bit further, i do not recommend cycling above 15%. 90% of the people have more bf than they think they have.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

**DHew** · 08-05-2017, 08:43 AM

Your diet is "pretty on point", yet you are above the recommended body fat percentage to even consider gear. Makes sense. How about you build your diet first in the diet and nutrition section.

**guitarzan** · 08-05-2017, 09:37 AM

Too fat for gear may apply to most folks, but fat pours off me on a tren cycle. I would go as far as saying I can burn twice the fat doing half the cardio while on tren. I've done it both ways many times

**guitarzan** · 08-05-2017, 09:39 AM

Throw in the var, clen and t3 and the fat loss gets stupid fast....

**DHew** · 08-05-2017, 10:40 AM

Guitarzan, maybe, maybe not, but that starts the whole conundrum of attempting to just go on steroids for any of your physiological needs. That's beyond fucked up. There is a reason beyond asthetics that you don't run gear when fat. Please educate yourself.

**guitarzan** · 08-05-2017, 10:45 AM

I've been educating myself for twenty years, and I know what works for me

**DHew** · 08-05-2017, 11:20 AM

Lots changed in twenty years. I don't mean this in a negative way, but seriously read about high body fat content and steroids before advocating the use of them to drop body fat as well. If you want to do it to yourself, go for it.

**DHew** · 08-05-2017, 11:21 AM

I'm going to leave it at that. Good luck OP. PM me for additional discussion if you want, guitarzan.

**songdog** · 08-05-2017, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by DHew

Your diet is "pretty on point", yet you are above the recommended body fat percentage to even consider gear. Makes sense. How about you build your diet first in the diet and nutrition section.

How can you say this really without a pic of him? Most people under guess their bf and you have no clue wat his diet is beacuse he didn't post it!

**DHew** · 08-05-2017, 11:33 AM

Because he says it's 18 Percent....

I can't go about speculating what may or may not be accurate about what every person posts. You must accept at least some of what they're saying as true. Perhaps he meant his upcoming diet will be on point, who knows.

**guitarzan** · 08-05-2017, 11:37 AM

I meant educating myself by trial and error, and I found what works for me and what doesn't. I'm the kind that can look at a burger and put on fat. While I've dropped fat the correct way in the past, it gets harder and harder, and I get less motivated. This go around I've dropped 25lbs, guessing 10% bf and I'm only 8 weeks in my 16 week cycle. I've quit drinking beer, stopped smoking (after 30years) and look and feel 100% better. I'm eating way better also. While I'm not suggesting it will work for everyone, it certainly does for me. If I hadn't started the cycle, I have no daubt I would still be drinking beer every night, smoking and eating pizza.

Edit: also should mention I have good blood pressure. It's been running around 110/70

**DHew** · 08-05-2017, 11:41 AM

Those are incredible achievements guitarzan, nice job brother.

**guitarzan** · 08-05-2017, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by DHew

Those are incredible achievements guitarzan, nice job brother.

Thanks man, gonna post Pics when cycle is over. Lost 4" in waist!

**EMZE** · 08-05-2017, 01:24 PM

Wasn't intending this to be a controversial post. Was kind of just hoping to see some creative ideas from the minds of the masses on what to do with what I have on hand.

I'm pretty confident in the 18% figure. I comfortably fluctuate between 10 and 18 (up to 20) based on what I'm trying to achieve, and I'm coming off a long haul where I wasn't worried about aesthetics and was, arguably, bulking (or at least that's what I was telling myself). But now I'm trying to recomp a bit.

I'm also aware of the downside to high bf % and gear, that primarily being increased aromatization. I should have been more clear -- I wasn't looking for cycle recommendations to start tomorrow, but what I should do with what I have on hand when I'm properly situated to start pinning. Also, my current bf% is why I posted all the clen /T3 I have on hand. But I realize that some would say those should only be used after hitting a plateau in weight loss. I acknowledge and accept that as sound advice.

As for my diet being on point or not, it's pretty on point in the sense that I was comfortably maintaining my weight and, in anticipation of cutting down to go on cycle, I was going to drop daily cals.

In any event, based on what I have, I'm planning to (when I do go on cycle) run:

WK 1-15: 500mg/wk (250 twice a week) sust
WK 7-14: 75mg EOD Tren (first tren cycle, so debating on whether 50 is better for longer)
WK 6-15: 50mg var ED
WK 3-15: 500 iu twice a week
Anastrazole if needed for itchy nips/bloating

PCT:
Clomid: 100mg ED for 10 days, then 50mg ED for 10 days. Alternatively, I could use the Nolvarel in the appropriate respective dosing.

Questions: Is this too much test, since it's been a couple years since my last run? Is there anything I should add/replace?

**Back In Black** · 08-05-2017, 01:50 PM

You don't need var and tren . I just ran them both and the var was lost in the cycle really.

Your test and tren dose are fine. Finish your tren 2 weeks before your test, you don't say what ester it is so can't help on the length quoted.

FWIW I hate blends, if you're happy with sust fine but a single ester keeps blood levels more stable.

You should run your AI from the start. If your E2 gets out of hand that's a big enough issue but your prolactin will then likely be out of whack too. 2 problems you need to try and fix mid cycle - not good.

Your PCT should the best it can be running tren (or deca )

Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20

You should reconsider the recomp, they rarely work as well as you want. Aim to cut a little, a calorie deficit and those compounds should help you with the results you desire.

**EMZE** · 08-05-2017, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Back In Black

You don't need var and tren . I just ran them both and the var was lost in the cycle really.

Your test and tren dose are fine. Finish your tren 2 weeks before your test, you don't say what ester it is so can't help on the length quoted.

FWIW I hate blends, if you're happy with sust fine but a single ester keeps blood levels more stable.

You should run your AI from the start. If your E2 gets out of hand that's a big enough issue but your prolactin will then likely be out of whack too. 2 problems you need to try and fix mid cycle - not good.

Your PCT should the best it can be running tren (or deca )

Clomid 75/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20/20/20

You should reconsider the recomp, they rarely work as well as you want. Aim to cut a little, a calorie deficit and those compounds should help you with the results you desire.

Thanks for the thorough response, Back in Black. Regarding prolactin issues, do you recommend having caber on hand? That's one thing I do not have, but I can get pretty easily before starting. I've run deca without prolactin issues (at least, none that I noticed) but I understand that tren is a different animal.

And if I'm going to punt on using the var with the tren, is there something else you recommend stacking with the var? I would assume some form of test, but just want to check if there's some synergy out there I'm not thinking of.

**Back In Black** · 08-05-2017, 02:36 PM

The Var simply gets lost with the tren . Definitely run test as a base no matter what you run. If you run the tren then you don't need anything else, especially on your first tren run. More isn't always better.

You can have caber, or prami, on hand. If you keep your E2 under control there shouldn't be any need for it.

**EMZE** · 08-05-2017, 07:59 PM

Hey Back in Black,

Thanks again for the advice and perspective. I really appreciate it.

A few more questions. I obviously don't want to lose the var with the tren . Do you think it would be worthwhile if i used the tren at the front of the cycle and then the var at the end, so that I am not running them concurrently? So, modifying the cycle plan I posted above, this now would look like:

WK 1-15: 500mg/wk (250 twice a week) sustanon
WK 3-9.5: 75mg EOD Tren (first tren cycle, so debating on whether 50 is better for longer)
WK 11-14: 80mg var ED
WK 3-15: 500 iu twice a week.

This new plan would have me upping the var from 50 to 80. Does this look like a good idea? Or a waste of the var?

**guitarzan** · 08-05-2017, 08:24 PM

I wouldn't drop the tren to add var. That would be like parking a corvette so you could drive a Hyundai!

**EMZE** · 08-05-2017, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by guitarzan

I wouldn't drop the tren to add var. That would be like parking a corvette so you could drive a Hyundai!

Understood, I wouldn't do that (does my follow-up question read that way?). What I'm wondering about is shifting the tren to earlier in the cycle and then maybe doing the var afterward, so they won't overlap.

**guitarzan** · 08-05-2017, 09:31 PM

Why not run tren the whole cycle, except last couple weeks? You stated getting more gear wasn't a problem.

**ryobi1** · 08-05-2017, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by guitarzan

I meant educating myself by trial and error, and I found what works for me and what doesn't. I'm the kind that can look at a burger and put on fat. While I've dropped fat the correct way in the past, it gets harder and harder, and I get less motivated. This go around I've dropped 25lbs, guessing 10% bf and I'm only 8 weeks in my 16 week cycle. I've quit drinking beer, stopped smoking (after 30years) and look and feel 100% better. I'm eating way better also. While I'm not suggesting it will work for everyone, it certainly does for me. If I hadn't started the cycle, I have no daubt I would still be drinking beer every night, smoking and eating pizza.

Edit: also should mention I have good blood pressure. It's been running around 110/70

this is great, but... it seems every time you stop a cycle you put on weight..
or at least thats what i'm getting out of what you say...not trying to be negative..
I hope you stay of the pizza, beer occasionaly, tough to refrain....smoking, a weight loss in its own,but
not a recommended one...if you gain after this cycle and stay off the crap food, i would accredit it to
stopping smoking....so if thats the case, then cease for life.... BP excellent....
good luck...youre on your way

**EMZE** · 08-05-2017, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by guitarzan

Why not run tren the whole cycle, except last couple weeks? You stated getting more gear wasn't a problem.

Sure, getting more gear is an option too, if that's recommended. Based on the reading and research I've done on forums and sites like this one, though, I've noticed that the typical recommendation is to not run tren for as long as the total duration of my cycle (i.e., 15 weeks).

Also, since its my first time with tren too, I'm a bit hesitant to double down on tren (vs just using what I already have) before knowing how I deal with the sides. But if ya'll don't think that will be an issue, I'll get me some more tren. Might there be any benefit to running one of the other tren esters?

**Back In Black** · 08-05-2017, 11:03 PM

run your tren from week 2, at least give the sust a chance to build up a little bit. Run the tren week 2-9 inclusive.

You can add the var but I'd lower the dose and run it 6 weeks at least.

I'd probably stop the sust at week 12. It might make recovery easier but unlikely. You results will have probably slowed to a crawl by then. Also, 15 weeks plus nearly 3 wait before PCT starts and 6 weeks PCT and you'd be looking at best part of 24 weeks (6 months) off cycle if you follow the basic rule of time on = time off.

**guitarzan** · 08-06-2017, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by ryobi1

this is great, but... it seems every time you stop a cycle you put on weight..
or at least thats what i'm getting out of what you say...not trying to be negative..
I hope you stay of the pizza, beer occasionaly, tough to refrain....smoking, a weight loss in its own,but
not a recommended one...if you gain after this cycle and stay off the crap food, i would accredit it to
stopping smoking....so if thats the case, then cease for life.... BP excellent....
good luck...youre on your way

I'm gonna start a thread called "my cutting cycle", where I will answer this question, and give anyone else a opportunity to chime in

**songdog** · 08-06-2017, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by guitarzan

Throw in the var, clen and t3 and the fat loss gets stupid fast....

These are just the comments we don't need! aas isn't a diet aid and don't make you lose weight you stopping drinking helped you do that.BUT! when you return to drinking the fat will come back.

**guitarzan** · 08-06-2017, 01:46 PM

Not arguing by no means, but var is one of the only aas that actually burns fat, and t3 intensifies that effect. No daubt it shouldn't be used as a weight loss aid, just a tool to get that last little bit off. I plan to start another thread explaining why I think the "risk is worth the reward" in my case, cycling to loose fat. I am having second thoughts about it, as I'm sure it won't be welcomed here, and I understand why

**EMZE** · 08-18-2017, 11:03 PM

Just to update ya'll.

This tren /sust combo has exceeded all my expectations. I'm astonished at how well tren works. Only downside has been waking up in puddles of sweat and the hairpin temper trigger. But size and defintion have greatly increased, and it's only been 16 days on cycle, and only 9 of that with Tren.

I also just picked up my next cycle. I have 5000mg Tren-E (wanted to try a longer ester for next time) and 4000mg Test-E. Will run the same PCT as the current cycle, assuming it works well, otherwise I'll adjust.

What other AAS can/should I add for next time? I was thinking deca , since it will be a winter cycle, but I'm unsure of the tren/deca combo. Goal would be similar to this time, though I'll be more comfortable with all the water from the deca. But I'm open to suggestions from ya'll on what other compound (or compounds) might be a better addition.