My First cycle Test E 500mg + Dbol 40mg

[Giohb]

Hello guys,
Been watching over this forum for a long period of time and i finally decided to start my first Cycle.

Stats:
-23 y/o
-179cm
-72kg

Been working out for 5 years, and i'm pretty sure my body has hit a plateau, since i can't find any difference at all for the past year.
Played around with my diet and exercise for quite a while and still the same weight and size.

Already made a Dbol only cycle once, gave me some strength and about 2 pure kgs of which i kept.
Tried all of those power shit and nothing helped ( Nitrotech, mass gainers, animal stack/pack blabla..)

I'm planning now to start my first injectable cycle which consists of:

-Week 1-4: 500mg of Test E /week + 40mg Dbol/Day + Milk Thistle
-Week 4-8: 500mg of Test E/week + 30mg Winstrol /Day (Only days i work out, means 5-6 Days per week) + Milk Thistle
-Week 10-12: PCT ( Nolva + Clomid)

If any Gyno occurred during cycle, i'll start taking AI. Other than that nothing except the Test-E and Orals.

My goal is to Gain 4-5 pure Kgs to keep, not aiming to do another cycle if i reach my goal ~77kgs

My questions are:
- When should i start my PCT? On week 9 or 10 ?
-What are the best dosages for the PCT?
- Is it better to go up to 750mg/ week with winstrol?
- Should I go on high carb diet during week 1-4 ?
-Any Supplement to get better results ? ( Creatine, BCAA , Amino Acids... )
(Im not taking any whey powder, getting all my calorie and protein intake from natural food)

Any Help would be appreciated since it's my first cycle and any tip or suggestion would really help my way out.

Thank you.
Attached Pictures shows my current body before starting the cycle.

[Eduke93]

Test E Only as your first cycle, read the stickies....

You should run TEST E for 12 weeks to get the most out of it, your PCT inst sufficient its too short and you should run HCG .

With regards to diet, this is person/goal dependant.. If you've been training for 5 years i would have thought your diet would be dialled in?

Whats your goals for the cycle, you need to choose... Cut or bulk. don't waste your time trying to do both during a cycle. Looking at your pictures, you probably want to bulk? Then why add in winni?

Give us more info...

[songdog]

Agreed with the above and you run a AI from the beginning and educate before you medicate!

[guitarzan]

You also need to wait a couple years, you're too young

[kelkel]

A lot of issues with your plan. Just read the Successful First Cycle thread and follow that. You don't need dbol , etc.

[Giohb]

My main goal is bulking about 5kgs , then shredding.
I Dont wanna reach 80+kgs, just some mass i'll me good with it
I'll be running 8 weeks instead of 12 since im taking Dbol which will make help in gaining size.
What do you recommend as PCT and when shall i start it ?
As my diet im used to it without any TestE or steroids , should i change anything or keep it the same?

Winny was a suggestion from a coach for cutting off after finishing the bulk.

[Giohb]

Running AI on cycle without having any gyno effect is really a controversial topic on forums, so unless i experience anything i wont take any AI.

I'm here to ask you people, if i knew everything i wouldn't bother and post a thread,
so the point of forums is sharing information, no ?

[Giohb]

You also need to wait a couple years, you're too young

i knew someone would be posting that :')
in every single thread there's a reply like that, i already made up my mind and im ready to handle the cycle.

Even if i said i'm 79 years old, someone will say, nah dont do it you're too young.

[guitarzan]

Can you post a link to someone here telling someone over 25 you're too young? There's a reason why people under 25 shouldn't cycle. You are really screwing up running dbol your first cycle, especially cutting your test cycle short by 4 weeks. Test is the only one you are gonna benefit from on this cycle. Why cut it short to run dbol?

[kelkel]

Running AI on cycle without having any gyno effect is really a controversial topic on forums, so unless i experience anything i wont take any AI.

Wait until you have side effects and then try and mitigate them. Seriously not the best move. Elevated estrogen levels in men have multiple deleterious side effects. Gyno is actually one of the lesser ones it's just visible. It's simple science, men don't do well walking around with the estrogen levels of a woman. Controversial? No, only to the uneducated.

Run your AI. You don't wait until you're in a car accident to put your seat belt on.

[Back In Black]

So you are told test e only but you are going to run Dbol too. Also might not run an ai? With Dbol and test? You are asking for trouble.

Only 8 weeks is too short for test e, you are overestimating what Dbol will do for you.

Read this, follow it and eat eat eat.

My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

Don't try and bulk and cut in the same cycle you will be disappointed.

Eat according to your goals, if you want to gain weight then of course you need to eat more. You will also need to eat more during and after PCT to try and retain your gains.

[Giohb]

Can you post a link to someone here telling someone over 25 you're too young? There's a reason why people under 25 shouldn't cycle. You are really screwing up running dbol your first cycle, especially cutting your test cycle short by 4 weeks. Test is the only one you are gonna benefit from on this cycle. Why cut it short to run dbol?

I mean like, i already know that someone is going to tell me don't do it cause you're still young, but i already made my mind up. What can possibly go wrong if i took everything like i should?
I'm fully grown, and my size is not changing since a year.

Concercing the dbol , i already ran it once before and it showed some great results, so why not stacking it up with test-e?

I can extend my cycle to 12 weeks but on week4-12 i'll be running only on test without dbol or anything else, is that what are you recommending doing?

[Giohb]

Wait until you have side effects and then try and mitigate them. Seriously not the best move. Elevated estrogen levels in men have multiple deleterious side effects. Gyno is actually one of the lesser ones it's just visible. It's simple science, men don't do well walking around with the estrogen levels of a woman. Controversial? No, only to the uneducated.

Run your AI. You don't wait until you're in a car accident to put your seat belt on.

I've read that taking AI will supress or make the effect of the steroid less than it should be, so they mentioned that if any gyno effects showed up, start taking AI

Can you please mention the side effects that are not visible or elevated estrogen?

Thanks for helping tho

[Back In Black]

Read the link I gave you.

Taking an AI can actually make the test you are taking more potent by stopping it aromatising.

Your HPTA might not yet be fully developed, read this

Explanation of HPTA / Endocrine System & How Steroids Affect You

Up to you what you do

[guitarzan]

So, this is your first cycle, but you ran dbol before?

[Giohb]

So, this is your first cycle, but you ran dbol before?

First injectable cycle, means test-e

[fit_deskjocky]

i knew someone would be posting that :')
in every single thread there's a reply like that, i already made up my mind and im ready to handle the cycle.

Even if i said i'm 79 years old, someone will say, nah dont do it you're too young.

At 37, I got nothing but well wishes when I posted I was starting my first cycle of Test-E "only".

[fit_deskjocky]

First injectable cycle, means test-e

I believe most would agree that your first cycle of D-bol only was a bust. It was an oral only cycle and you lost most of your gains when you came off. You also suppressed your natural testosterone for the duration of your oral only cycle without using exogenous testosterone thus potentially damaging your HPTA System before it had even matured. Did you do a proper PCT when you came off and also use HCG while on?

[Giohb]

I believe most would agree that your first cycle of D-bol only was a bust. It was an oral only cycle and you lost most of your gains when you came off. You also suppressed your natural testosterone for the duration of your oral only cycle without using exogenous testosterone thus potentially damaging your HPTA System before it had even matured. Did you do a proper PCT when you came off and also use HCG while on?

I must say my first dbol only cycle wasnt that good, gave me few gains, didnt do any pct or hcg ..
It was almost 3-4 years ago

Update: As for my current cycle PCT i'll be doing:
Clomid, proviron and pregnyl

Is it good?

[Giohb]

At 37, I got nothing but well wishes when I posted I was starting my first cycle of Test-E "only".

So you're saying to stay off steroids ?

[Back In Black]

I must say my first dbol only cycle wasnt that good, gave me few gains, didnt do any pct or hcg ..
It was almost 3-4 years ago

Update: As for my current cycle PCT i'll be doing:
Clomid, proviron and pregnyl

Is it good?

Just read the link I gave you and follow it FFS.

[charger69]

I must say my first dbol only cycle wasnt that good, gave me few gains, didnt do any pct or hcg ..
It was almost 3-4 years ago

Update: As for my current cycle PCT i'll be doing:
Clomid, proviron and pregnyl

Is it good?

Where do I start? Your imaturity is showing... You have had people providing you links and you have not read them however you continue to ask questions. I will try to hand feed you. Do you think there is a reason why someone on all forums tells you you are too young? You are not growing externally, your HPTA is still maturing. You cannot see it. You shut it down when you cycle. Shutting it down while it is maturing can cause immediate or delayed problems down the line. You may be able to start it again. Everyone who cycles takes a risk, younger than 25 cycling drastically increases that risk. Is it really worth it? I am 50 and the effects of low T suck. I cannot imagine being 25 with low T.
You also said that you made your mind up, but you did not properly research before you made the decision. Hey man, it is your body and you can do what you want, but we are just trying to get you to fully understand what you are doing.
I also believe that you feel that the AAS is magical. AAS does not burn fat. Your diet determines if you cut or bulk. Any AAS can be used for bulking or cutting. The AAS that is normally used in cutting preserves muscle.
IMO you cycle will not provide you good results.
PCT- you need clomid and nolva. Hcg is on cycle not PCT. hcg shuts you down so why would you use it during PCT when uou are trying to restart your system?
AI- this is used for prevention. Once you have gyno, its too late to take an AI. You need something stronger. Someone gave the example of putting your seat belt on after an accident- same thing, too late.

[Giohb]

Where do I start? Your imaturity is showing... You have had people providing you links and you have not read them however you continue to ask questions. I will try to hand feed you. Do you think there is a reason why someone on all forums tells you you are too young? You are not growing externally, your HPTA is still maturing. You cannot see it. You shut it down when you cycle. Shutting it down while it is maturing can cause immediate or delayed problems down the line. You may be able to start it again. Everyone who cycles takes a risk, younger than 25 cycling drastically increases that risk. Is it really worth it? I am 50 and the effects of low T suck. I cannot imagine being 25 with low T.
You also said that you made your mind up, but you did not properly research before you made the decision. Hey man, it is your body and you can do what you want, but we are just trying to get you to fully understand what you are doing.
I also believe that you feel that the AAS is magical. AAS does not burn fat. Your diet determines if you cut or bulk. Any AAS can be used for bulking or cutting. The AAS that is normally used in cutting preserves muscle.
IMO you cycle will not provide you good results.
PCT- you need clomid and nolva. Hcg is on cycle not PCT. hcg shuts you down so why would you use it during PCT when uou are trying to restart your system?
AI- this is used for prevention. Once you have gyno, its too late to take an AI. You need something stronger. Someone gave the example of putting your seat belt on after an accident- same thing, too late.

First, Thanks a lot for you help
Second, you know that feeling when you keep hitting the gym and diet hard and giving all of your time and effort for your body and getting nothing back? Well I've been getting that feeling for the past year and i'm sick of it
I never thought of doing any cycle at all, but seeing no results pushed me to do it.

Third, i'm on my 5th day of dbol (40mg/day) and feeling some nice strength
My first test-e injection was on friday (250mg) and i have to inject tomorrow aswell.

If i want to take fron your advice, shall i stop the test-e? Can i keep running dbol only for 4 weeks ?

I'm totally scared and lost now as i'm standing on a cliff, dont know if i jump into juicing or keeping only orals or what

I know i can stop it know and my body would go back to normal, but i'll be getting that ugly feeling of going to the gym and training hard for nothing.
I want to feel some change in my body
( already played with my diet and got 9kgs from it, and i think thats my max)

Any help is appreciated

[Back In Black]

For fucks sake man, for the 4th fucking time, read the fucking link I gave you in post 8.

If you can't help yourself why do you expect others to help?!?!?!

[Giohb]

For fucks sake man, for the 4th fucking time, read the fucking link I gave you in post 8.

If you can't help yourself why do you expect others to help?!?!?!

Already read it, thanks for your input tho.
I'm thinking of stopping the cycle.
I only injected once 250mg test-e on friday
And its my 4th day of dbol (40mg)
For sure i'll stop the test-e,
Shall i take anything for cleaning ?

And can I continue the dbol at lower doses or it's uselss?

[Back In Black]

Already read it, thanks for your input tho.
I'm thinking of stopping the cycle.
I only injected once 250mg test-e on friday
And its my 4th day of dbol (40mg)
For sure i'll stop the test-e,
Shall i take anything for cleaning ?

And can I continue the dbol at lower doses or it's uselss?

If you are asking those questions you didn't read, or comprehend at least, the content.

Here is another link, then tell us if you want to run Dbol only

Cycles without Testosterone: Why you should avoid them at all costs

[Giohb]

If you are asking those questions you didn't read, or comprehend at least, the content.

Right, so if i stop everything shall i do any PCT or take anything?
4 days of dbol and 1 injection

[Nogbad the bad]

So you're saying to stay off steroids?

Doh!!!!

[Back In Black]

Right, so if i stop everything shall i do any PCT or take anything?
4 days of dbol and 1 injection

You should be fine without.

Get bloodwork done in 6 weeks.

[charger69]

Right, so if i stop everything shall i do any PCT or take anything?
4 days of dbol and 1 injection

You will be fine. Just one injection . 4 days of dbol , you should be OK without PCT.
now, research and ask questions and wait until you are 25. There are still no guarantees, but the risk is much lower.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Giohb]

You should be fine without.

Get bloodwork done in 6 weeks.

Right so i've stopped everything today, not feeling anything

[Giohb]

You will be fine. Just one injection . 4 days of dbol , you should be OK without PCT.
now, research and ask questions and wait until you are 25. There are still no guarantees, but the risk is much lower.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What do you by mean no guarantees, the risk is much lower?
Could the dosage i took affect me badly in any way? Like my HPTA?

[16bPJerri]

I agree with this guy i read it because i ran my first cycle without being informed and payed for it heed their warninglisten to there advice if they didnt wanna help theyd say “good luck”