What's is a optimal testosterone level?

**jjsevens** · 08-18-2017, 09:42 AM

I'm going to see a hormone Dr to discuss trt and was wondering what an optimal testosterone level should be, the ranges online are so broad. I know age is a factor, but at best, what's an optimal number? Just don't want my Dr coming back saying oh your in the normal range and telling me I'm fine, when I know I'm not, I have all the tell tale signs of low T.

My free testosterone came back at 359 pmol/L, would that be considered low? I'm 41 but If I go on trt I would expect that I'd shoot for the same level as what I should be when I was younger.

**TestoSuper** · 08-18-2017, 10:50 AM

A good level of total testosterone can be 5-7 ng/ml (usually ranging from 3 to 10 ng/ml).
Keep in mind that over 30 years it begins to fall slightly year after year.

**jjsevens** · 08-18-2017, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by TestoSuper

A good level of total testosterone can be 5-7 ng/ml (usually ranging from 3 to 10 ng/ml).
Keep in mind that over 30 years it begins to fall slightly year after year.

So which reading dictates what your overall test levels are? I thought it was free testosterone...here are the other results:

Free test 359 pmol/L
Total test 15.8 nmol/L
Bioavailabile test 5.4 nmol/L

**TestoSuper** · 08-18-2017, 02:44 PM

There weren't reference ranges values with a minimum and a maximum?
Total testosterone and Free testosterone are ok .. you should compare them with the range (minimum and maximum) that your labs consider, if they are included in this range they are ok

**Sh0tsf1red** · 08-18-2017, 05:02 PM

Make sure you are clear with the symptoms you tell him, I don't think you should come off as asking for it. Try to lead the doc into suggest it for you.

**jjsevens** · 08-18-2017, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by TestoSuper

There weren't reference ranges values with a minimum and a maximum?
Total testosterone and Free testosterone are ok .. you should compare them with the range (minimum and maximum) that your labs consider, if they are included in this range they are ok

Here are the ranges :

Free test 359 pmol/L (196-636)
Total test 15.8 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4 NMOL/L)
Bioavailabile test 5.4 nmol/L (1.2 - 10.9 NMOL)

**PT1982** · 08-18-2017, 07:38 PM

My total test is usually 490s-550s. Or that's what my Dr thinks.......MUAHAHAHAHA!

**ryobi1** · 08-18-2017, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by jjsevens

Here are the ranges :

Free test 359 pmol/L (196-636)
Total test 15.8 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4 NMOL/L)
Bioavailabile test 5.4 nmol/L (1.2 - 10.9 NMOL)

iould have a feeling he is going to say you are ok...
but get him to run tests for hypogonadism, and thyroid.
maybe he ll find something there....
he might try you on the gel if you can convince him...
thats the problem with the ranges that are considered normal, they are too
broad.....they should strive to achieve midrange, imho....
that would probably have you feeling normal

**PT1982** · 08-18-2017, 10:43 PM

If you are in the normal range, even if on the lower side, don't use trt as you're first line of action. If you truely need it, you'll know. I have a brother in law that's been trying his best to find a Dr to prescribe it to him. I think the ranges are 400-1100ng/dl if I'm not mistaken and its not changed. He's around 480ish. Certain prescription medications can lead to a drop in total test, so make sure everything is ruled out. If you truely need it, you'll know. It's a horrible life to live with low t. But I can assure you that if I could go back and my levels were at least in range, I'd have never started. It's a God send to those in need, but a curse to those who are young and prematurely get started. Unless you see a progressive Dr who has knowledge of HRT or even better, who specializes in it, you'll be so much better off. Most GPs will prescribe it and that's it. No hcg , no AI, and one follow-up bloodwork scheduling. And if you don't have children and do think you may want to have a family one day, being on trt is a long and hard road for most of us. If I could not have low t, I wouldn't ever want on it. Its a blessing and a curse, but again, if it's needed its needed. I was a miserable person, depressed all the time, no sex drive, always sleepy and non active. After I finally got everything in order, I was a new man. It took months upon months to get it right, but my Dr still isn't up to code, so I have to self medicate to be where I need to be all the way around. And now I'm wanting to start a family and its so discouraging.

**TestoSuper** · 08-19-2017, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by jjsevens

Here are the ranges :

Free test 359 pmol/L (196-636)
Total test 15.8 nmol/L (7.6 - 31.4 NMOL/L)
Bioavailabile test 5.4 nmol/L (1.2 - 10.9 NMOL)

Your values are all included in the ranges at about middle level .. so I would say you have nothing to worry about.
I would not start a trt with these values.

**charger69** · 08-19-2017, 08:24 AM

I can almost guarantee that the Dr. Will not prescribe TRT. Your numbers are actually pretty good. Going with that, I also would not go on TRT unless it is necessary. I bet you have something else going on. I would probably start by checking the thyroid.
I have found that the method of application also makes a difference in recommending or not. I had a consistant 170 total test ( i think the min was 325) and my gp gave me a prescription for the creme application. I did not want that because it can actually be transferred. When we got to the injection, now things changed. This was a class 3 narcotic and now I needed to see an endo. Just turned 50 two days prior and the min level dropped on free test. I hit the low value and was rejected for TRT. Endo said it wasn't worth the risk ( he obviously does not know how the symptoms feel). Offered no resolution and sent me on my way. Now my gp basically said he will not overide an endo. He will do bloodwork after bloodwork until I get tired.

**jstone** · 08-19-2017, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by PT1982

If you are in the normal range, even if on the lower side, don't use trt as you're first line of action. If you truely need it, you'll know. I have a brother in law that's been trying his best to find a Dr to prescribe it to him. I think the ranges are 400-1100ng/dl if I'm not mistaken and its not changed. He's around 480ish. Certain prescription medications can lead to a drop in total test, so make sure everything is ruled out. If you truely need it, you'll know. It's a horrible life to live with low t. But I can assure you that if I could go back and my levels were at least in range, I'd have never started. It's a God send to those in need, but a curse to those who are young and prematurely get started. Unless you see a progressive Dr who has knowledge of HRT or even better, who specializes in it, you'll be so much better off. Most GPs will prescribe it and that's it. No hcg, no AI, and one follow-up bloodwork scheduling. And if you don't have children and do think you may want to have a family one day, being on trt is a long and hard road for most of us. If I could not have low t, I wouldn't ever want on it. Its a blessing and a curse, but again, if it's needed its needed. I was a miserable person, depressed all the time, no sex drive, always sleepy and non active. After I finally got everything in order, I was a new man. It took months upon months to get it right, but my Dr still isn't up to code, so I have to self medicate to be where I need to be all the way around. And now I'm wanting to start a family and its so discouraging.

I couldn't have said it better. I started in my late 20's, and I would love to have normal test levels. I'm lucky I have a PA, that knows his hormones pretty well. He will also listen to any info of studies bring him. He also sets it up to where my levels are around 1400 accept for once every 6 months when I do bloodwork. I postpone my injection for around 10 days to let my levels come down to what won't get him scrutinized. He doesn't prescribe crazy high doses I just respond really well. My prescribed dose is 100mg every 5 days. He will prescribe AI if it's NEEDED, and HCG if you want to pay for it. Local pharmacies get 250-800 for 10,000iu. I dont use it year round just usually a few months on then off.

Originally Posted by TestoSuper

Your values are all included in the ranges at about middle level .. so I would say you have nothing to worry about.
I would not start a trt with these values.

Most doctors won't, but a good doctor that treats the symptoms will if he is symptomatic. My dad is 60 and his levels were in the 600's and my PA put him on because he was just not his normal self, all of his symptoms pointed to low t. Now he is back to feeling just how he used to. Some people have genetically high levels, and that's why the good docs treat the symptoms and not the numbers.

**jjsevens** · 08-21-2017, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by ryobi1

iould have a feeling he is going to say you are ok...
but get him to run tests for hypogonadism, and thyroid.
maybe he ll find something there....
he might try you on the gel if you can convince him...
thats the problem with the ranges that are considered normal, they are too
broad.....they should strive to achieve midrange, imho....
that would probably have you feeling normal

Never been tested for hypogonadism, do you get the same signs of low T?

Ive already been tested for thyroid and do have hypothyroidism, I'm currently talking synthroid for that and my levels are currently in check.

**jjsevens** · 08-21-2017, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by PT1982

If you are in the normal range, even if on the lower side, don't use trt as you're first line of action. If you truely need it, you'll know. I have a brother in law that's been trying his best to find a Dr to prescribe it to him. I think the ranges are 400-1100ng/dl if I'm not mistaken and its not changed. He's around 480ish. Certain prescription medications can lead to a drop in total test, so make sure everything is ruled out. If you truely need it, you'll know. It's a horrible life to live with low t. But I can assure you that if I could go back and my levels were at least in range, I'd have never started. It's a God send to those in need, but a curse to those who are young and prematurely get started. Unless you see a progressive Dr who has knowledge of HRT or even better, who specializes in it, you'll be so much better off. Most GPs will prescribe it and that's it. No hcg, no AI, and one follow-up bloodwork scheduling. And if you don't have children and do think you may want to have a family one day, being on trt is a long and hard road for most of us. If I could not have low t, I wouldn't ever want on it. Its a blessing and a curse, but again, if it's needed its needed. I was a miserable person, depressed all the time, no sex drive, always sleepy and non active. After I finally got everything in order, I was a new man. It took months upon months to get it right, but my Dr still isn't up to code, so I have to self medicate to be where I need to be all the way around. And now I'm wanting to start a family and its so discouraging.

I do have hypothyroidism and am being treated for that with thyroid medication, synthroid , and my levels are all in check, not on any other medications.

I'm feeling the signs of low T, sex drive isnt what it was, depressed/unmotivated some days, ED, I can only perform with Cialis, for my height and weight I'm still not that much stronger since I started working out 2+ years ago.... I'm 41 now.

Ya I'm seeing a bioidentical hormone Dr, this is what he specializes in, going to see him this Wednesday for a consultation and full panel bloodwork to make an assessment.

**jjsevens** · 08-21-2017, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

I can almost guarantee that the Dr. Will not prescribe TRT. Your numbers are actually pretty good. Going with that, I also would not go on TRT unless it is necessary. I bet you have something else going on. I would probably start by checking the thyroid.
I have found that the method of application also makes a difference in recommending or not. I had a consistant 170 total test ( i think the min was 325) and my gp gave me a prescription for the creme application. I did not want that because it can actually be transferred. When we got to the injection, now things changed. This was a class 3 narcotic and now I needed to see an endo. Just turned 50 two days prior and the min level dropped on free test. I hit the low value and was rejected for TRT. Endo said it wasn't worth the risk ( he obviously does not know how the symptoms feel). Offered no resolution and sent me on my way. Now my gp basically said he will not overide an endo. He will do bloodwork after bloodwork until I get tired.

I have hypothyroidism but am currently on medication for that and my levels are in check.

Ya same exp with my GP, I'm describing my symptoms but the tests come back within normal range, so now I'm going to see a bioidentical hormone Dr because he specializes in this and might help me.

**jjsevens** · 08-21-2017, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by jstone

Most doctors won't, but a good doctor that treats the symptoms will if he is symptomatic. My dad is 60 and his levels were in the 600's and my PA put him on because he was just not his normal self, all of his symptoms pointed to low t. Now he is back to feeling just how he used to. Some people have genetically high levels, and that's why the good docs treat the symptoms and not the numbers.

This is what im hoping for, he treats me for the symptoms, not numbers, cause although they are in the normal range, I'm certainly not feeling normal.

**Kai Lover** · 08-21-2017, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by jstone

I'm lucky I have a PA

Did it hurt? I have a tattoo going around mine but I dunno if I'd go the whole hog and pierce it.

**JdFlex** · 08-21-2017, 03:10 PM

Your #s don't warrant TRT IMO. That said, I was in the same boat, numbers were low but not low enough for TRT but I felt all of the symptoms (a result of steroid use IMO). Take a couple shots of test then wait several weeks to get your blood checked again when your test will be at the lowest level. I say you should start TRT. There is no greater gift to a man IMO than to age with direct control over your own hormone levels. I pin every Saturday, big deal. Remember - your hormone levels don't decrease because you get older........you get older because your hormone levels decrease.

**Octaneforce** · 08-21-2017, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by JdFlex

Your #s don't warrant TRT IMO. That said, I was in the same boat, numbers were low but not low enough for TRT but I felt all of the symptoms (a result of steroid use IMO). Take a couple shots of test then wait several weeks to get your blood checked again when your test will be at the lowest level. I say you should start TRT. There is no greater gift to a man IMO than to age with direct control over your own hormone levels. I pin every Saturday, big deal. Remember - your hormone levels don't decrease because you get older........you get older because your hormone levels decrease.

I was thinking all the same stuff when i saw this thread. X2 on the test shot idea. Couldnt anyone just not do pct and have an easier time getting trt?

**PT1982** · 08-21-2017, 08:05 PM

Yes, there are ways to manipulate your test levels, but why in the hell would you want to? Get an accurate reading or you will be sorry. No if, ands, or buts. I promise you that if you do this you will be sorry in the long run. Please don't manipulate the bloodwork! If you're in range, even on the low side, you don't want to be on it. I know it is tempting, but I'm telling you it's not all its cracked up to be. Especially if you think you'll want children one day. I'm not trying to be a downer or discouraging you. I'm truly giving you sound advice that you'll only understand if you get to the point I am. Get the bloodwork and post it up and let us try to help you from there. If you need it because you truely are low, great. Get on it. But if you're in the low normal, let's pull our resources together and try some things out. I've got a few pseudo hrt protocols that can give you the boost you need to get to feeling normal again. Go the conservative route first and get on trt as your last resort. Good luck in this.

**DocToxin8** · 08-22-2017, 04:59 AM

PT is right on this.
TRT gets old.

And you don't need to manipulate bloodwork.
If you don't fear TRT or missing out on getting kids,
the use of AAS will eventually land you in need of TRT anyways.

**808dreams** · 08-22-2017, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by PT1982

Yes, there are ways to manipulate your test levels, but why in the hell would you want to? Get an accurate reading or you will be sorry. No if, ands, or buts. I promise you that if you do this you will be sorry in the long run. Please don't manipulate the bloodwork! If you're in range, even on the low side, you don't want to be on it. I know it is tempting, but I'm telling you it's not all its cracked up to be. Especially if you think you'll want children one day. I'm not trying to be a downer or discouraging you. I'm truly giving you sound advice that you'll only understand if you get to the point I am. Get the bloodwork and post it up and let us try to help you from there. If you need it because you truely are low, great. Get on it. But if you're in the low normal, let's pull our resources together and try some things out. I've got a few pseudo hrt protocols that can give you the boost you need to get to feeling normal again. Go the conservative route first and get on trt as your last resort. Good luck in this.

I hear people on TRT say this occasionally but nobody gives any specifics or examples of why this is.

Care to give us nattys that think TRT is great some examples?

**jjsevens** · 08-22-2017, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by PT1982

Yes, there are ways to manipulate your test levels, but why in the hell would you want to? Get an accurate reading or you will be sorry. No if, ands, or buts. I promise you that if you do this you will be sorry in the long run. Please don't manipulate the bloodwork! If you're in range, even on the low side, you don't want to be on it. I know it is tempting, but I'm telling you it's not all its cracked up to be. Especially if you think you'll want children one day. I'm not trying to be a downer or discouraging you. I'm truly giving you sound advice that you'll only understand if you get to the point I am. Get the bloodwork and post it up and let us try to help you from there. If you need it because you truely are low, great. Get on it. But if you're in the low normal, let's pull our resources together and try some things out. I've got a few pseudo hrt protocols that can give you the boost you need to get to feeling normal again. Go the conservative route first and get on trt as your last resort. Good luck in this.

Thanks for the feedback, no intentions of manipulating my bloodwork, just want to figure out what the hells going on with me, feel like I'm going into a depression, totally sucks. When I'm on cycle I feel great, I've done 3 in the last 2 years, feel horny, hard ons, no problem, I come off and it's back to this. I'm 41 now and already had a kid, no plans to have more so I'm not concerned about the sides of not having kids. As soon as I get my bloodwork back, they said about 3 weeks I'll post it up and see what you think.

**jjsevens** · 08-22-2017, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by 808dreams

I hear people on TRT say this occasionally but nobody gives any specifics or examples of why this is.

Care to give us nattys that think TRT is great some examples?

I'd like to know this also.... What's so bad about trt? I've read up on it and haven't heard anything negative about it other than you're stuck taking it for life.

**JdFlex** · 08-22-2017, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by PT1982

Yes, there are ways to manipulate your test levels, but why in the hell would you want to? Get an accurate reading or you will be sorry. No if, ands, or buts. I promise you that if you do this you will be sorry in the long run. Please don't manipulate the bloodwork! If you're in range, even on the low side, you don't want to be on it. I know it is tempting, but I'm telling you it's not all its cracked up to be. Especially if you think you'll want children one day. I'm not trying to be a downer or discouraging you. I'm truly giving you sound advice that you'll only understand if you get to the point I am. Get the bloodwork and post it up and let us try to help you from there. If you need it because you truely are low, great. Get on it. But if you're in the low normal, let's pull our resources together and try some things out. I've got a few pseudo hrt protocols that can give you the boost you need to get to feeling normal again. Go the conservative route first and get on trt as your last resort. Good luck in this.

If trying to have kids then definitely do not go on TRT. But otherwise, why not, outside of heart problems or something serious? If levels are low normal but feeling is low why not manipulate to get a blood test result that will allow a Dr to not only prescribe but monitor with regular blood work TRT? I disagree, I want to be on it. I'm 40 and I feel great being on. Its about quality of life at the end of the day IMO.

**JdFlex** · 08-22-2017, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by jjsevens

I'd like to know this also.... What's so bad about trt? I've read up on it and haven't heard anything negative about it other than you're stuck taking it for life.

Possible increase in blood pressure and possible increase in blood thickness is all I'm aware of that are TRT negatives. Well, and pinning every week for life, but I'd call that a positive. Having direct control over hormones through aging is a huge benefit IMO.

**jstone** · 08-22-2017, 08:42 PM

PT, and doctoxin are right try is great until it's not. It's hard to explain the hardship until you encounter it your self. Pinning every 3.5-5 days starts to get old, not to mention monitoring your bloodwork, donating blood, not being able to just up and leave without worrying about bringing your try supplies. You can use hcg to stop your balls from shrinking, but I don't like the idea of using it all the time. So most of the year my balls are the size of small grapes very small grapes. I'm dating a girl for a while so that doesn't matter, but if I was single I would be using HCG. It would be hard to explain why you have no balls.

Your insurance usually won't cover hcg, or AI, and I had great insurance. Locally hcg ranges from 250-800 dollars for 10,000 IU, adex was around 80 dollars for 6 1mg pills. I can get pharmaceutical grade products from one of my sources, but it just adds to the headache. I have only needed addex once the entire time I have been on trt . Insurance is another part of the equation, are you going to have the same insurance forever. If you don't have insurance blood work is stupid expensive, they're not going to let you use private md labs unless you have a very cool doctor. I recently lost my job for attending a funeral, they wouldn't give me the time off due to short notice. So I went and got fired. Now I work at a pizza place making less than by of what I did and do my own trt.

I have had times where I have gone months without injections. Just due to being tired of it not, because I'm out of test. I have enough for my trt for probably around 10 years. While I'm greatful cor trt, I would kill to have natural test levels.

**jstone** · 08-22-2017, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by JdFlex

If trying to have kids then definitely do not go on TRT. But otherwise, why not, outside of heart problems or something serious? If levels are low normal but feeling is low why not manipulate to get a blood test result that will allow a Dr to not only prescribe but monitor with regular blood work TRT? I disagree, I want to be on it. I'm 40 and I feel great being on. Its about quality of life at the end of the day IMO.

Manipulating your bloodwork to gain trt is something we don't recommend. To me manipulating a doctor to receive trt is wrong. It's also a character flaw, I have many, but i would never scam anybody for anything. Your scamming the doctor for something you can buy all day long virtually anywhere. It's easier to buy testosterone than it is to buy injectable methylcobalmin(sp). So why scam your doctor, a doctor patient relationship should have a foundation of trust, and honesty.

**PT1982** · 08-22-2017, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by JdFlex

If trying to have kids then definitely do not go on TRT. But otherwise, why not, outside of heart problems or something serious? If levels are low normal but feeling is low why not manipulate to get a blood test result that will allow a Dr to not only prescribe but monitor with regular blood work TRT? I disagree, I want to be on it. I'm 40 and I feel great being on. Its about quality of life at the end of the day IMO.

Needing to be on and wanting to be on are 2 totally different things. If a person is in range, manipulating the tests in order to get prescribed test is absurd. If you need it the quality on life goes up for sure.

**PT1982** · 08-22-2017, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by 808dreams

I hear people on TRT say this occasionally but nobody gives any specifics or examples of why this is.

Care to give us nattys that think TRT is great some examples?

Being "on" all the time does sound good to those who occasionally cycle because they feel so good. But needing to be on trt and taking it just be be in the normal ranges don't make you feel any better than if you were naturally in range. If one were to go on trt prematurely, then they will suffer from low test very soon. It gets super old. Not just the pinning, but the hcg , bloodwork, possibly donating blood very often, infertility, etc. You're depending on a drug just too be normal and feel normal. Trust me, trt isn't anything like being on blast. It's a nuisance. Dont get me wrong, I'm grateful for it, but only because I truely needed it. My life was in shambles for years because of it. But once uit decide to go the route of trt, there is no going back. And I can't stress enough how difficult it is to try to become even remotely fertile. You may not want kids right now and you might even think you never want them. But you will. Or your better half will. And that can cause a serious stain on a relationship. Trt is not fun guys. Dont think for a second that it's even close to feeling like you're on cycle all the time because it is not. If you're normal but feel something isn't right, keep getting tests done to find the root of what ails you. Trt isn't what you guys that just cycle think it is. If you go on and really don't need it, I promise and know for certain that you will regret it. But it'll be too late and there is no going back once you make that decision. I dding care how much Bill Roberts writes on rebounding from trt, he's dead wrong. He is on about 95% of everything he writes. Once you start, that's it.

**JdFlex** · 08-23-2017, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by jstone

Manipulating your bloodwork to gain trt is something we don't recommend. To me manipulating a doctor to receive trt is wrong. It's also a character flaw, I have many, but i would never scam anybody for anything. Your scamming the doctor for something you can buy all day long virtually anywhere. It's easier to buy testosterone than it is to buy injectable methylcobalmin(sp). So why scam your doctor, a doctor patient relationship should have a foundation of trust, and honesty.

I hear what you're saying.

Believe it or not it was my Dr who told me to scam the bloodtest. When I met him I was open and honest telling him I was on self-prescribed TRT b/c my numbers were low and I didn't feel well. He told me to stop, wait 4 weeks, then get another bloodtest. I asked....but won't my levels be crashed.....and he said yes. That made me question his integrity but he looked at my past bloodtests and said it was the best way to proceed going on TRT (insurance wise, etc).

**PT1982** · 08-23-2017, 04:52 PM

^^^^^I would seriously get a new doctor.

**Full Intensity** · 08-23-2017, 05:10 PM

see attached i am considered low for my age bc the range is deceiving. The range does not adjust for age, so i am far from optimal. This is the result of AS in my opinion and not enough PCT during and after cycle.

Click image for larger version.

Name: Screen Shot 2017-08-23 at 7.08.57 PM.png
Views: 201
Size: 115.8 KB
ID: 170381

**MuscleScience** · 08-23-2017, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by Full Intensity

see attached i am considered low for my age bc the range is deceiving. The range does not adjust for age, so i am far from optimal. This is the result of AS in my opinion and not enough PCT during and after cycle.

What was your typical PCT if you don't mind me asking?

**Full Intensity** · 08-23-2017, 09:16 PM

I'd run clomid for 21 days and HCG , I'd be lieing if I told u I remembered the HCG doses. But it is the opinion of some that I completely shut down my hpta. They wanted me to take dhea at first which isn't regulated in Canada yet so the doc was compounding his own. Then I tried pulsing clomid every 3 days for 3 months with no effect on testosterone production. Now it's trt @ 100mg /wk for life ....ran clomid 300 day 1 then 100 for 10 days then 50 for 10 days if I remember correctly back then

**Full Intensity** · 08-23-2017, 09:17 PM

I have been in and off gear for almost 15 yrs and in 35 now FYI

**TRA** · 08-23-2017, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by 808dreams

I hear people on TRT say this occasionally but nobody gives any specifics or examples of why this is.

Care to give us nattys that think TRT is great some examples?

Without TRT you will never feel normal once on it, so it's a lifelong commitment. It's either self-inject twice a week for life, run it from sources or deal with the medical system, doctor visits, prescribed labs and the ignorance many, many of the medical profession have regarding hormone therapy. It's like golden handcuffs.
I had no choice and have been on it for about 9 years. I eventually went to pellets which have been pretty okay but the scar tissue from a couple of years of those insertions every 3-4 months has limited injection sites. And there is the taper at the end as the test levels come down, which requires bridging shots. And running cycles on nebido or pellets requires exquisite timing and sometimes delays because things don't line out.
I am going to self-administered Nebido for the convenience and to avoid the clinical scene. And trust me, I know it from the inside and it's still a pain to rely on.
As far as test levels, I was low 100s when diagnosed (a few years after bad symptoms started) and it was pure hell. I can now tell without a doubt when my test levels drop below 750. I can almost predict my lab results within 50-100 based on how I feel. I feel good running around 1200 which is what my pellets are set up for. I would avoid TRT as long as I could, just one more hassle with a potential for feeling like crap if levels drop at any time.

**jjsevens** · 08-25-2017, 01:21 PM

Everyone's talking about, at least from what I'm reading, synthetic TRT, has anyone tried bioidentical testosterone replacement therapy? That's what my hormone Dr is suggesting, not synthetic. Synthetic is what kills your natural hpta, balls shrink and can't have kids. Bioidentical is reproducing your natural hormones back to what they should be, in other words supplementing what you've already got, it doesn't shut down the hpta. But I'm in the early stages of testing and am waiting for my results to come in to evaluate my entire hormonal system to identify if something else is making me feel this way, or possibly blocking my natural production.

Anyone on bioidentical replacement therapy?

**TRA** · 08-25-2017, 01:25 PM

As far as a desirable test level, I would say infinity.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 08-25-2017, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by jjsevens

Everyone's talking about, at least from what I'm reading, synthetic TRT, has anyone tried bioidentical testosterone replacement therapy? That's what my hormone Dr is suggesting, not synthetic. Synthetic is what kills your natural hpta, balls shrink and can't have kids. Bioidentical is reproducing your natural hormones back to what they should be, in other words supplementing what you've already got, it doesn't shut down the hpta. But I'm in the early stages of testing and am waiting for my results to come in to evaluate my entire hormonal system to identify if something else is making me feel this way, or possibly blocking my natural production.

Anyone on bioidentical replacement therapy?

complete lie....

all testosterone is bioidentical once the ester is cleaved off.
You cannot supplement your natural testosterone production.
You will be shut down.
He is simply being a salesman.