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Thread: How bad are AAS' for you really?

  1. #41
    TrailRunAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Third Tier View Post
    Increase your AI...LMAO

  2. #42
    borlef is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Look up Christopher Langan and watch some of his videos on his beliefs. Then read his theory, "the cognitive theory of the model universe." You won't be able to keep up to the second paragraph. The guys IQ is unmeasureable and he believes it is mathematically possible to prove the existence of God. As a climate change guy I am betting you are atheist or agnostic. If Chris Langan helps you with a math problem though, he will be right.

    Nearly everyone who posted doesn't believe in climate change but they all gave the same advice. Don't act like people have to believe something you believe to be considered intelligent. You, just like all of us, only know what you have been told and taught. Global warming is a means of control and tax collection, by a government and governments, that you think have interests in mind, other than money and power.
    When mount Tambora erupted in 1815 it caused "the endless winter"
    It literally produced more carbon emissions than mankind in the duration of its existence. You will read articles on snopes that base things like volcanic eruptions on a yearly basis average and say "volcanoes only produce 1/20th the emissions per year of mankind. Well, guess what... They disinclude major incidents such as the eruption in 1815.

    I know two things:
    Everything is about money.
    People are not in control and never will be.

    Gonna go fire up one of my diesel engines and go cut down a tree. Time to make money. Remember, I am about to remove enough paper from the earth today, to supply everyone on this forum for a couple months. Think about that when you are blow drying your hands after wiping your ass with two squares of tp, trying to save the planet.

    I don't believe you are less intelligent because you believe in climate change. We are all just slightly smarter than apes and we are all just along for the ride. I may be dead wrong, tomorrow we may wake up and the ice caps have melted. We aren't going to stop it though. Enjoy the ride.
    No, not everything is about money. But many things are. And it makes no monetary sense to legislate against the fossil fuel industry, and the fossil fuel industry is the biggest industry in the world. Renewables will make energy cheaper eventually, which means the total revenue will shrink, i.e. less money. So your argument doesn't hold. If it's about money, then exxon would be winning this one by a hundred miles.

    Yes, you do need to believe some basic facts. Like the earth is not flat, like we were not on this earth at the same time as t-rex.

    Some of these dudes sound like COMPLETE morons, and you'd listen to an absolute moron, who has no medical credentials, talk about medical issues related to roids? If your average bro who pumps and roids had a medical degree and is a practicing cardiologist or endocrinologist, it would be good to listen to them. If they deny basic facts, and then say it's bullshit that roids have bad effects, and they have no basis for saying so other than that they haven't dropped dead yet, you'd listen?? Wow

  3. #43
    Sh0tsf1red is online now Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    No, not everything is about money. But many things are. And it makes no monetary sense to legislate against the fossil fuel industry, and the fossil fuel industry is the biggest industry in the world. Renewables will make energy cheaper eventually, which means the total revenue will shrink, i.e. less money. So your argument doesn't hold. If it's about money, then exxon would be winning this one by a hundred miles.

    Yes, you do need to believe some basic facts. Like the earth is not flat, like we were not on this earth at the same time as t-rex.

    Some of these dudes sound like COMPLETE morons, and you'd listen to an absolute moron, who has no medical credentials, talk about medical issues related to roids? If your average bro who pumps and roids had a medical degree and is a practicing cardiologist or endocrinologist, it would be good to listen to them. If they deny basic facts, and then say it's bullshit that roids have bad effects, and they have no basis for saying so other than that they haven't dropped dead yet, you'd listen?? Wow
    I think you came here looking for a "safe space", do you know which gender you are today?

    Most of the climate change cultists seems to think gender is a spectrum? Do you accept or deny these "basic facts"?

    I think you should working on your liberal arts degree

  4. #44
    borlef is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ View Post
    Definitely not to fuel the fire nor to engage in an online debate, but a couple of things. First of all, this is no statement on my belief/disbelief in climate change, merely my belief in what you are discussing, SCIENCE.
    Climate change is NOT a proven basic truth. If you have read both sides you will find very compelling evidence for both theories. However, it quickly became a politicized issue because, big surprise, there was money to be made from it. Al Gore made millions/billions on the carbon credits which was born of the theory. So once politicized the information presented is done so in a manner to further the agenda.
    There are numerous scientific reports refuting some of the findings for our role in climate change, and some of the reports supporting it have in fact been deemed pseudoscience. But again, it's a political issue.
    If you really want to know the truth I would recommend researching and really reading the european studies that oppose it by leading scientists, because science is about looking at everything and making a decision based on the evidence. Again, not saying I believe or don't - it's hard to make a decision because all the information we are given is filtered through the hands of people who all stand to gain something - Al Gore and other cronies who profit by it, or corporations and magnets who gain by refuting it so they are not restricted in their production/commerce...and now it is a political issue.

    And comparing it to the holocaust is simply faulty logic.

    Referring to people who disagree with you as jackasses further shows a lack of truth-seeking.

    Just sayin'
    Bruh, who stands more to gain, exxon, shell, BP and the thousands of other oil companies making many trillions in revenue, or Al Gore? When 97% of scientists are in agreement, and the few percent that don't all have ties to big oil, it's pretty damn clear. If 97% of people you talked to saw your brother at the store today with a hot chick, and 3% said they don't think it was him there with the hottie, and those 3% fucking hate your brother, it was him. He was there. And the science is not hard to follow.

    But assholes disregard facts. Assholes say what they want to fit their agenda. Assholes aren't humble. And a lotta assholes juice. I was just hoping, when I posted, that there's some humble guys with some scientific knowledge that had a differing opinion on how bad roids are for your body. But everything seems pretty anecdotal, which is fine, but obviously not a lotta science going on here... and some dudes obviously prefer it that way.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    No, not everything is about money. But many things are. And it makes no monetary sense to legislate against the fossil fuel industry, and the fossil fuel industry is the biggest industry in the world. Renewables will make energy cheaper eventually, which means the total revenue will shrink, i.e. less money. So your argument doesn't hold. If it's about money, then exxon would be winning this one by a hundred miles.

    Yes, you do need to believe some basic facts. Like the earth is not flat, like we were not on this earth at the same time as t-rex.

    Some of these dudes sound like COMPLETE morons, and you'd listen to an absolute moron, who has no medical credentials, talk about medical issues related to roids? If your average bro who pumps and roids had a medical degree and is a practicing cardiologist or endocrinologist, it would be good to listen to them. If they deny basic facts, and then say it's bullshit that roids have bad effects, and they have no basis for saying so other than that they haven't dropped dead yet, you'd listen?? Wow
    Read this carefully. I drove a 1977 ford that got 29 miles per gallon. My trucks nowaverage about 12-14 because of emissions standards. Do you have any clue how much more fiel is consumed by engines because of emissions standards? My motherfucking chainsaws get half the economy they used to.

    Get it? Burn twice the fuel, save the planet.

    You just proved my point.

    EVERYTHING IS ABOUT MONEY .

    You probably believe in "free" education and "free" healthcare. All of us individuals just serve you because we care about you....

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    Bruh, who stands more to gain, exxon, shell, BP and the thousands of other oil companies making many trillions in revenue, or Al Gore? When 97% of scientists are in agreement, and the few percent that don't all have ties to big oil, it's pretty damn clear. If 97% of people you talked to saw your brother at the store today with a hot chick, and 3% said they don't think it was him there with the hottie, and those 3% fucking hate your brother, it was him. He was there. And the science is not hard to follow.

    But assholes disregard facts. Assholes say what they want to fit their agenda. Assholes aren't humble. And a lotta assholes juice. I was just hoping, when I posted, that there's some humble guys with some scientific knowledge that had a differing opinion on how bad roids are for your body. But everything seems pretty anecdotal, which is fine, but obviously not a lotta science going on here... and some dudes obviously prefer it that way.
    Back to the original question. If you only listen to those you think sound intelligent then ok. Shit advice is not allowed on this board without serious hazing.

    Tell me are cigarettes bad for you?
    Do they cause cancer?
    Dust inhalation can cause cancer and emphysema...
    Hell, what if its the raw butane breathed in when cigarettes are lit?

    Anyone can poke holes in any argument. Aas in excess will kill you. Shoot two grams of tren a week and at 80mg of halo ed for a couple years and that is as long as we will know you. Drinking too much water can kill you. Everything in moderation if you seek longevity.
    Bodybuilders are some party hard guys and they may be dying under the age of fifty simply because of rec drugs.

    I just doubt that. There is a liver, kidney, heart failure trend amoung BBs at early age. Orals are proven hepatoxic, tren raises my bp which deteriorates arteries.

    I will pull you up a list.
    borlef likes this.

  7. #47
    Obspowerstroke's Avatar
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    Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47.
    Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22.
    Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30.
    Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32.
    Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33.
    Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33.
    Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35.
    Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37.
    Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37.
    Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40.
    Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40.
    Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41.
    Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44.
    Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44.
    Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44.
    Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45.
    Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45.
    Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45.
    Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45.
    Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47.
    Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47.
    Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49.
    Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49.
    Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49.
    Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49.
    Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50.
    Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51.
    Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52.
    Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53.
    The Dead Pool?
    These bodybuilders are thankfully still alive at the time of this writing, but have suffered major health issues.

    Tom Prince
    Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012.
    Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011.
    Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003.
    Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39.
    Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35

    This is all from Chris Colucci ^^^
    Lotta damnkidneys going bad very young.
    I know a lot of 50 year old crack heads...
    Rec drugs.... I doubt that. I smell denial, really deep denial.

  8. #48
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    Shit, I been wondering where all the older forum members went... They fookin died brah!
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  9. #49
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    That 97% of scientists deal is a lie. I will have have to go back and research how they came up with that number, but it's very misleading. Even the guy that started the weather channel said it's bs.

  10. #50
    charger69 is online now Member
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    Damn Obs.... Do you have a secretary?
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  11. #51
    charger69 is online now Member
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    At least you are saving the trees! LOL
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    But assholes disregard facts. Assholes say what they want to fit their agenda. Assholes aren't humble. And a lotta assholes juice. I was just hoping, when I posted, that there's some humble guys with some scientific knowledge that had a differing opinion on how bad roids are for your body. But everything seems pretty anecdotal, which is fine, but obviously not a lotta science going on here... and some dudes obviously prefer it that way.

    Since you commented essentially that unless medically trained our opinions mean nothing I'm curious why you're even here? Obviously anything we say not accompanied by "MD" in our signature means nothing to you. And when it comes to the medical world, doctors are not trained in AAS in med school. Not even TRT for example unless they take it upon themselfes. The overwhelming majority know very little about AAS other than old school dogma that it's horrible for you. Regardless of whether their title is endo or uro.

    But when it comes to gaining knowledge you simply refuse to accept it from what you disdainfully consider layman, even though many here have been in this game I'd imagine longer than you've been alive. Your parents must have had a great time backing up everything they told you with a study.

    Oh, and what I highlighted in bold above is the perception you've given to everyone here unfortunately. And btw "bruh" (whatever that means) there are many here with scientific knowledge including MD's, but who wants to deal with someone who basically puts forth a litmus test as to whether their views should be considered valid or not. Quite myopic and one dimensional at the least.
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  13. #53
    borlef is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Read this carefully. I drove a 1977 ford that got 29 miles per gallon. My trucks nowaverage about 12-14 because of emissions standards. Do you have any clue how much more fiel is consumed by engines because of emissions standards? My motherfucking chainsaws get half the economy they used to.

    Get it? Burn twice the fuel, save the planet.

    You just proved my point.

    EVERYTHING IS ABOUT MONEY .

    You probably believe in "free" education and "free" healthcare. All of us individuals just serve you because we care about you....
    Dude, emission standards are designed to INCREASE your mpg! You are contradicting yourself. You are saying global warming is BS, it's about money, to increase Al Gore's holdings, which are all renewables, but now you're saying that emissions standards (which you are getting backwards) actually increase money to the oil companies. So by your first logic, global warming is about helping renewables business and hurting oil, and by your second argument you are saying it's helping big oil.

    "Free" k-12? Yes. Free healthcare? Only for accident coverage. I don't know why I'm debating someone who is debating himself, but no I come from a high tax region and am in a high tax bracket. Not only does the economy I live in and work in carry the dumbass red states economically, we pay an unfair share of taxes too. But nice try.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    Damn Obs.... Do you have a secretary?
    My secretary is Kel.
    I put all this shit together because he called in sick.
    He finally shows up, says a tenth as much, and got the point across three times better.

    Fucker uses words like "myopic" and "dimensional"....

    How do I compete with that?

  15. #55
    borlef is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarzan View Post
    That 97% of scientists deal is a lie. I will have have to go back and research how they came up with that number, but it's very misleading. Even the guy that started the weather channel said it's bs.
    No it's not. If you'd like to go scientist by scientist and get their quotes on endorsing or denying, go ahead. You'll find out for yourself.

    The guy is a business man. Listen to his scientists. I know I do, because my sister is married to one who used to work there and now works for the national weather service. Not a single person at his office denies man made climate change.

  16. #56
    borlef is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Since you commented essentially that unless medically trained our opinions mean nothing I'm curious why you're even here? Obviously anything we say not accompanied by "MD" in our signature means nothing to you. And when it comes to the medical world, doctors are not trained in AAS in med school. Not even TRT for example unless they take it upon themselfes. The overwhelming majority know very little about AAS other than old school dogma that it's horrible for you. Regardless of whether their title is endo or uro.

    But when it comes to gaining knowledge you simply refuse to accept it from what you disdainfully consider layman, even though many here have been in this game I'd imagine longer than you've been alive. Your parents must have had a great time backing up everything they told you with a study.

    Oh, and what I highlighted in bold above is the perception you've given to everyone here unfortunately. And btw "bruh" (whatever that means) there are many here with scientific knowledge including MD's, but who wants to deal with someone who basically puts forth a litmus test as to whether their views should be considered valid or not. Quite myopic and one dimensional at the least.
    No, I didn't say that. I qualified opinions based on either having some scientific knowledge to point to, or be a rational human being with some measure of backing to prove that. If you deny climate science, or shit like the earth not being flat, or the solar system not revolving around earth, your opinion should hold no weight. You clearly avoid rationale, basic facts and concise logic. If my lawyer told me he thinks the vietnam war was staged, I would walk out of his office immediately and be super thankful I heard him say that stupid shit before I heard him say some shit equally as stupid and damning in a contract negotiation meeting. Get it? If someone is a moron, their opinion shouldn't matter. And it's really more applicable to relate climate change to AAS effects. Deny science in one argument, liable to deny it in others. Next up everyone here wanna just vent about how trump really won the popular vote because hillary trucked in illegals to come vote? Holy hell.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    I know I do, because my sister is married to one who used to work there and now works for the national weather service. Not a single person at his office denies man made climate change.
    Well, the founder of the Weather Channel would dispute that claim. And no doubt it would be job suicide for the employees to deny it....
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  18. #58
    borlef is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Back to the original question. If you only listen to those you think sound intelligent then ok. Shit advice is not allowed on this board without serious hazing.

    Tell me are cigarettes bad for you?
    Do they cause cancer?
    Dust inhalation can cause cancer and emphysema...
    Hell, what if its the raw butane breathed in when cigarettes are lit?

    Anyone can poke holes in any argument. Aas in excess will kill you. Shoot two grams of tren a week and at 80mg of halo ed for a couple years and that is as long as we will know you. Drinking too much water can kill you. Everything in moderation if you seek longevity.
    Bodybuilders are some party hard guys and they may be dying under the age of fifty simply because of rec drugs.

    I just doubt that. There is a liver, kidney, heart failure trend amoung BBs at early age. Orals are proven hepatoxic, tren raises my bp which deteriorates arteries.

    I will pull you up a list.
    Good points.

  19. #59
    borlef is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Mike Matarazzo: Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1992 to 2001. Four-time top 5 finisher at the Night of Champions. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 47.
    Dan Puckett: 1st place 2006 NPC Collegiate National Heavyweight. Died from heart failure in 2007, age 22.
    Scott Klein: Four-time NPC Heavyweight competitor (1995 and 1997), two-time NPC super-heavyweight competitor (1998 and 2000). Died from kidney failure in 2003, age 30.
    Robert Benavente: Competed in multiple NPC shows from 1994 (teen division) to 2003 (1st place in Southern States). Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Trevor Smith: Bodybuilding writer and coach. Never competed, but weighed over 400 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2004, age 30.
    Andreas Munzer: 13 top-five placings from 1986-96. Considered a "pioneer" in the use of diuretics for a super-peeled look. Died from multiple organ failure in 1996, age 32.
    Mohammed Benaziza: Seven total Grand Prix wins in 1990 and 1992, 1st place at the 1990 Night of Champions (beating Dorian Yates), two top 5 Mr. Olympia showings (1989 and 1992). Died from heart failure hours after winning the Grand Prix Holland show in 1992, age 33.
    Daniele Seccarecci: IFBB competitor from 2007 to 2013. 2010 Guinness World Record Holder for "heaviest competitive bodybuilder" at 297 pounds. Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 33.
    Luke Wood: IFBB competitor from 2001 to 2008, often breaking into the top 10. Died from complications following a kidney transplant in 2011, age 35.
    Chris Janusz: Amateur competitor, nutrition coach, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2009, age 37.
    Art Atwood: Consistent top 10 finisher in IFBB shows from 2002 to 2004, including 1st at the 2002 Toronto Pro. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 37.
    Mat Duvall: Four-time top 3 finisher in NPC Super-heavyweight division (1999, 2001, 2002, 1st in 2003). Died from a heart attack in 2013, age 40.
    Ed Van Amsterdam: European champion in the mid-1990s, frequent top 10 IFBB finisher in 2002 and 2003. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 40.
    Fannie Barrios: Two-time Jan Tana winner (2001, 2002). Three top 8 placings at Ms. Olympia (3rd place in 2002). Died from a stroke in 2005, age 41.
    Charles Durr: Six top 5 NPC and IFBB finishes from 1988 to 1999. Competed in the 2004 IFBB North American Championships. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 44.
    Anthony D'Arezzo: Three-time top 10 NPC Heavyweight (1993, 1994, 1995). 1st at NPC New England in 1997. Died from a heart attack the night before a contest in 2006, age 44.
    Greg Kovacs: Competed in several IFBB shows from 1997 to 2005. Known in the industry as one of the largest off-season bodybuilders, regularly weighing over 400 pounds. Died from heart failure in 2013, age 44.
    Ron Teufel: 1978 IFBB Mr. USA. Runner-up to Samir Bannout at 1979 World Amateurs. Top 10 IFBB competitor in 1981 and 1982. Died from liver failure in 2002, age 45.
    Hans Hopstaken: NPC Masters competitor in 1998 and 1999. IFBB competitor in 2000 and 2001, including two top 5 placings at the Masters Olympia. Died from heart failure in 2002, age 45.
    Frank Hillebrand: Light-heavyweight champion (1987, 1989), several top 10 IFBB finishes from 1990 to 1993. Died from a heart attack in 2011, age 45.
    Alex Azarian: NPC competitor from 2002 to 2009, including a total of five 1st place wins. Training, nutrition, and contest prep consultant. Died from undisclosed causes in 2015, age 45.
    Ray Mentzer: IFBB competitor from 1979 to 1982 including 1st place 1978 Mr. USA, and several top 3 placings. Died from kidney failure in 2001, age 47.
    Nasser El Sonbaty: Frequent top 8 IFBB competitor from 1990 to 1992, consistent top 4 finisher in shows from 1993 to 1998, including 2nd at the 1997 Mr. Olympia and 3rd at the 1995 and 1998 Olympias. Died from complications from heart and kidney failure in 2014, age 47.
    Don Ross: Amateur competitor from 1965 to 1972, pro bodybuilder from 1973 to 1980 with 10 top 5 placings. Died from a heart attack in 1995, age 49.
    Mike Mentzer: Consistent top 3 IFBB pro from 1975 to 1979, including 2nd in the 1976 and 1977 Mr. Universe, 1st place 1976 Mr. America, and 1st place 1979 heavyweight Mr. Olympia (lost the Overall to Frank Zane). First pro bodybuilder to be awarded a perfect score in a contest. Died from heart complications in 2001, age 49.
    Don Youngblood: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 1994 to 2002. 2nd place at the 2001 Masters Olympia and winning 1st in the 2002 Masters Olympia. Died from a heart attack in 2005, age 49.
    Stoil Stoilov: NPC and IFBB Masters competitor from 2005 to 2014. Died in 2014 one week after placing 2nd at a National show, age 49.
    Terri Harris: Frequent top 5 finisher in NPC and IFBB shows from 2002 to 2012, including several 1st place wins in 2011 and 2012. Died from a heart attack two days after a contest in 2013, age 50.
    Ed Kawak: 5-time Mr. Universe (1982-1985, 1993). IFBB competitor in 1996 and 1999. Died from a heart attack in 2006, age 51.
    Vince Comerford: Amateur competitor from 1984 to 1986. 1st place Middleweight at 1987 NPC Nationals (lost the Overall to Shawn Ray). IFBB competitor in 1989 and 1990. Died from a heart attack in 2014, age 52.
    Greg DeFerro: 1979 IFBB Mr. International, five top 4 placing in IFBB shows from 1981-1984, including 2nd to Lee Haney at the '83 Night of Champions. Died from heart disease in 2007, age 53.
    The Dead Pool?
    These bodybuilders are thankfully still alive at the time of this writing, but have suffered major health issues.

    Tom Prince
    Tom Prince: NPC competitor from 1995 to 1997, including 1st place at the 1997 Nationals. IFBB competitor from 1999 to 2002. Suffered kidney failure during contest prep in 2003, age 34. Retired in 2004, eventually received a kidney transplant in 2012.
    Don Long: NPC Light-heavyweight (1992) and Heavyweight (1993 to 1995). Frequent top 10 IFBB pro from 1996 to 1999. Suffered kidney failure in 1999, age 34. Received a kidney transplant in 2002, which failed in 2003. Competed in several IFBB shows from 2006-2009. Received another kidney transplant in 2011.
    Flex Wheeler: NPC competitor from 1989 to 1992. One of the best IFBB pros from 1993 to 2000 with a total of 17 first place wins. He made 2nd place at the Mr. Olympia three times ('93, '98, '99) and two-time top 4 at the Olympia ('96 and '00). Suffered kidney failure and "officially" retired in 2000, age 35. Competed twice more, 7th place at the '02 Mr. Olympia (supposedly drug-free) and 3rd at the '03 Ironman. Received a kidney transplant in 2003.
    Orville Burke: NPC Heavyweight in 1996 and 1997 and Super-heavyweight in 1998. Frequent IFBB top 10 competitor from 1999 to 2002, including 1st at the 2001 Night of Champions and 1st at the '01 Toronto Pro. Two-time top 10 at the Mr. Olympia. Fell into a six-week coma after complications during surgery in 2002, age 39.
    Mike Morris: NPC competitor from 1990 to 1997. IFBB pro from 2001 to 2005. Retired in 2005 after developing signs of kidney problems, age 35

    This is all from Chris Colucci ^^^
    Lotta damnkidneys going bad very young.
    I know a lot of 50 year old crack heads...
    Rec drugs.... I doubt that. I smell denial, really deep denial.
    Wow, thats an insane list. That there seems like a pretty strong endorsement for the negative effects. Obviously those guys roided heavy, but jeez. Thanks for the list

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    Dude, emission standards are designed to INCREASE your mpg! You are contradicting yourself. You are saying global warming is BS, it's about money, to increase Al Gore's holdings, which are all renewables, but now you're saying that emissions standards (which you are getting backwards) actually increase money to the oil companies. So by your first logic, global warming is about helping renewables business and hurting oil, and by your second argument you are saying it's helping big oil.

    "Free" k-12? Yes. Free healthcare? Only for accident coverage. I don't know why I'm debating someone who is debating himself, but no I come from a high tax region and am in a high tax bracket. Not only does the economy I live in and work in carry the dumbass red states economically, we pay an unfair share of taxes too. But nice try.
    We are done. Every single emissions standard decreases fuel economy. Who is that good for?

    Engine manufacturers have had to reduce valve to cylinder clearance to such extreme levels that all the newer engines are interference engines. Break your timing belt or chain and you get a new engine. They only did this because they were trying to squeeze all the horsepower they could out of an engine choking on its own exhaust. Catalytic converter, egr, scr, reburner, any emissions reduces fuel mileage causing you to get less fuel economy.

    Those red states that you carry, they are the agriculture states, the ones that actually perform the greatest part of the largest industry in the world. Oh fuck I will die without these cities!

    No....
    Wait...

    Thats backwards huh?
    Thank you for your miniscule employment taxes.
    I have many friends with over 20 million in farm equipment. This isn't the 1950's, we arent dumbasses pushing plows.

    You have accused people here of acting superior but this last post shows how you really feel about yourself. You are a douchebag. Go somewhere else.
    Sh0tsf1red likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    Dude, emission standards are designed to INCREASE your mpg!


    ^^^^^that is a city kid talking^^^^^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Well, the founder of the Weather Channel would dispute that claim. And no doubt it would be job suicide for the employees to deny it....
    He was CEO for a year before being pushed out. And went back to doing his original job... being a weathercaster! He has no science background.

    He claimed polar ice caps are increasing and so are polar bear populations. Clearly incredibly wrong. He's an idiot. Go find video of Steve Ballmer, microsoft ceo, talking about how every apple product ever will be a flop. Good call there Stevie. The weather channel guy is a weathercaster, not a scientist, and hasn't been with the weather channel in 30 years.
    Last edited by borlef; 09-13-2017 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    Dude, emission standards are designed to INCREASE your mpg!


    ^^^^^that is a city kid talking^^^^^^
    Keep reachin guy

    This single-model year standard was issued March 27, 2009, and is about one mpg lower than the fuel economy standards previously recommended under the Bush Administration. "These standards are important steps in the nation's quest to achieve energy independence and bring more fuel efficient vehicles to American families", said Secretary LaHood. The new standards will raise the industry-wide combined average to 27.3 miles per US gallon (8.6 L/100 km; 32.8 mpg‑imp) (a 2.0 mpg‑US (2.4 mpg‑imp) increase over the 2010 model year average), as estimated by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA). It will save about 887,000,000 U.S. gallons (3.36×109 L) of fuel and reduce carbon dioxide emissions by 8.3 million metric tons. This 2011 single-year standard will use an attribute-based system, which sets fuel economy standards for individual vehicle models, based on the footprint model. Secretary LaHood also noted that work on the multi-year fuel economy plan for model years after 2011 is already well underway. The review will include an evaluation of fuel-saving technologies, market conditions and future product plans from the manufacturers. The effort will be coordinated with interested stakeholders and other federal agencies, including the Environmental Protection Agency.[40] The new rules were immediately challenged in court again by the Center for Biological Diversity as not addressing the inadequacies found by the previous court rulings.[41]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    Dude, emission standards are designed to INCREASE your mpg!


    ^^^^^that is a city kid talking^^^^^^
    "Small towns, small minds." Sooounnds about right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    No, I didn't say that. I qualified opinions based on either having some scientific knowledge to point to, or be a rational human being with some measure of backing to prove that. If you deny climate science, or shit like the earth not being flat, or the solar system not revolving around earth, your opinion should hold no weight. You clearly avoid rationale, basic facts and concise logic. If my lawyer told me he thinks the vietnam war was staged, I would walk out of his office immediately and be super thankful I heard him say that stupid shit before I heard him say some shit equally as stupid and damning in a contract negotiation meeting. Get it? If someone is a moron, their opinion shouldn't matter. And it's really more applicable to relate climate change to AAS effects. Deny science in one argument, liable to deny it in others. Next up everyone here wanna just vent about how trump really won the popular vote because hillary trucked in illegals to come vote? Holy hell.
    So, you believe in climate change. Congratulations? Others don't. It doesn't make them morons or anything similar. Everyone's not going to agree with you in life. As you get older and move out of your parents house you'll realize all this. Why not take your participation trophy and find another forum to join. Doesn't Bernie have one you can join to bounce like-minded opinions off of other ultra-opinionated kids?

    But to the point, most here by now just want you to leave.
    Obspowerstroke and charger69 like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarzan View Post
    That 97% of scientists deal is a lie. I will have have to go back and research how they came up with that number, but it's very misleading. Even the guy that started the weather channel said it's bs.
    Absolutely correct! There is a big scandal where the numbers were distorted, and it isn't conspiracy theory, it's plain fact - there is a bunch of incorrect, in fact, blatantly fraudulent data in addition to the 97% b.s. But he isn't interested in FACTS, he is interested in dogma, like the other 97% of political party followers.

  27. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    "Small towns, small minds." Sooounnds about right!
    See if you can participate in a discussion without maligning, insulting and name-calling those with differing opinions.

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    Jesus christ you are thick.
    Who knew sending an engines exhaust into its intake increased fuel economy! I can knock the ucking catalytic converter out of you car and hand you 2 mpg! Do you know how many egr deletes I have done?

    I am a redneck! One of those red staters that can fix anything that breaks! I can turn a truck up to 800hp or make a cummins V-8 get 25 mpg.please do not get in an auto mechanics argument with us primitive folk.

  29. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    "Small towns, small minds." Sooounnds about right!
    Enjoy your meal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    We are done. Every single emissions standard decreases fuel economy. Who is that good for?

    Engine manufacturers have had to reduce valve to cylinder clearance to such extreme levels that all the newer engines are interference engines. Break your timing belt or chain and you get a new engine. They only did this because they were trying to squeeze all the horsepower they could out of an engine choking on its own exhaust. Catalytic converter, egr, scr, reburner, any emissions reduces fuel mileage causing you to get less fuel economy.

    Those red states that you carry, they are the agriculture states, the ones that actually perform the greatest part of the largest industry in the world. Oh fuck I will die without these cities!

    No....
    Wait...

    Thats backwards huh?
    Thank you for your miniscule employment taxes.
    I have many friends with over 20 million in farm equipment. This isn't the 1950's, we arent dumbasses pushing plows.

    You have accused people here of acting superior but this last post shows how you really feel about yourself. You are a douchebag. Go somewhere else.
    Really? Want me to quote you statistics about every red state's favorite enemy, California, and the size of it's agrictulture. By FARRR the biggest Ag producer in the country.

    20 million?!? OOooohhh. Not 20 MILLION! I worked for a company that does $4B in ag revenue in liberal old california. Who gives a shit?!? You brought up the whole taxes and free this and that. I just corrected you. Red states get bailed out by blue states. Have fun on your laptop or cellphone, hitting the internet, tweeting your ass off or facebooking away, and thank california for all of that. Thank a blue state for your medicines, technology, engineered products and reason for our country being the economic power it is. And thank a blue state for subsidizing you. We pay for your state's pork spending. You're welcome son.

  31. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    Enjoy your meal.
    Yeah, got me some OG chicken, lettuce, zucchini, rice, avocado and almond slivers... all from central california! Enjoy your corn!

  32. #72
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    I was about to have sex, now shes asleep cause I been pecking on my phone!

    You should know better borlef, now you made a hillbilly angry and horny...

    You better run like a mofo next time you hear banjos!
    Last edited by Obspowerstroke; 09-13-2017 at 09:47 PM.

  33. #73
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    and you apparently can't comprehend that mpg's go UP! when they raise emissions standards. It's the entire point of it! Holy shit. Get yourself to a local college, any college, STAT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Obspowerstroke View Post
    I was about to have sex, now shes asleep cause I been pecking on my phone!

    You should no better borlef, now you made a hillbilly angry and horny...

    You better run like a mofo next time you hear banjos!
    Your cousin? No wonder y'all so stupid. Inbreeding is a bitch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailRunAZ View Post
    See if you can participate in a discussion without maligning, insulting and name-calling those with differing opinions.
    Hey man, someone comes at me, I'm gonna come right back. I bet if I didn't, I'd hear a bunch of "what a beta cuck!"

  36. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    So, you believe in climate change. Congratulations? Others don't. It doesn't make them morons or anything similar. Everyone's not going to agree with you in life. As you get older and move out of your parents house you'll realize all this. Why not take your participation trophy and find another forum to join. Doesn't Bernie have one you can join to bounce like-minded opinions off of other ultra-opinionated kids?

    But to the point, most here by now just want you to leave.
    Ohhh man. I'd pay to hear you rant about Trump. "Greatest business man in history, self made man. Worth $10 billion. Stand up guy. Great family man. True American hero." Sound about right?

  37. #77
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    How bad are AAS' for you really?-images.png

    Lmmfao did you say central California?

    I just pissed myself!

  38. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    Your cousin? No wonder y'all so stupid. Inbreeding is a bitch.
    If she wasn't good enough for her brothers, why the fuck would I want her?

  39. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by borlef View Post
    Ohhh man. I'd pay to hear you rant about Trump. "Greatest business man in history, self made man. Worth $10 billion. Stand up guy. Great family man. True American hero." Sound about right?
    I don't judge people by their politics as I don't need to be around like-minded people to be feel secure as you so obviously do. Everythings political with you isn't it? Just go away. Personally, I'd pay to meet you right about now. Keyboard warrior, all 6' 165lbs of you. Just not on a windy day.
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  40. #80
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    I have never seen Kel react like this borlef...
    We have had some serious twat monkeys on here but you are headed for #1.

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