Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 41 to 80 of 109
Like Tree62Likes

Thread: Decanoate esters- how do they work?

  1. #41
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is offline AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    26,234
    Quote Originally Posted by kronik420 View Post
    i'd rather eat a steak.. no ester. what's the half life on that?
    Depends on the cut of steak and the serving size. I ate a 24 oz. sirloin Friday afternoon and it stuck with me until mid-day on Saturday.
    Obs and kronik420 like this.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  2. #42
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Of course crea deca is better than mono. The half life in the blood of anti psychotic decanoates is 6-10 days so presumably it is the same for crea deca, and steroid decas (havn't read studies on them yet you can tell me how long their half lives are). The creatine wil be released slowly over 6-10 days. Also the fatty acid could diffuse into the cell with the crea/anti psychotic/steroid hormone attached to it which is good.

  3. #43
    kronik420's Avatar
    kronik420 is offline Anabolic Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    6,263
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    Of course crea deca is better than mono. The half life in the blood of anti psychotic decanoates is 6-10 days so presumably it is the same for crea deca, and steroid decas (havn't read studies on them yet you can tell me how long their half lives are). The creatine wil be released slowly over 6-10 days. Also the fatty acid could diffuse into the cell with the crea/anti psychotic/steroid hormone attached to it which is good.
    yea it is

  4. #44
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is offline AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    26,234
    This decanoate ester of creatine still doesn't make sense, especially given the serving size they specify of 5g.
    Typically a long estered compound is of a higher dosage so that you get a usable dosage over an extended period of time
    IF there is any usable application of this, you would think the serving size would be larger so that an effective dosage would be delivered over a period of time rather trickling a miniscule dosage over a period of time.
    Just saying....
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  5. #45
    hammerheart's Avatar
    hammerheart is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Surrounded by wolves
    Posts
    4,527
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    Of course crea deca is better than mono. The half life in the blood of anti psychotic decanoates is 6-10 days so presumably it is the same for crea deca, and steroid decas (havn't read studies on them yet you can tell me how long their half lives are). The creatine wil be released slowly over 6-10 days. Also the fatty acid could diffuse into the cell with the crea/anti psychotic/steroid hormone attached to it which is good.
    Those psy meds are injectable, parental way pharmacokinetics are different than oral.
    almostgone likes this.

  6. #46
    hollowedzeus is offline Productive Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,357
    Why would you want it to be slow released?

    Hormones arent used as fuel at any given moment for muscle cells... hence the conveience of a deca ester.

    For something that is used up by your body rapidly, surely you would just want to saturate tour muscle cells to maximum capacity and replenish when empty...
    almostgone likes this.

  7. #47
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,550
    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    Why would you want it to be slow released?

    Hormones arent used as fuel at any given moment for muscle cells... hence the conveience of a deca ester.

    For something that is used up by your body rapidly, surely you would just want to saturate tour muscle cells to maximum capacity and replenish when empty...
    ^ exactly . heck this is why its best to take creatine with fast acting carbs, as the fast uptake of glucose and water into the muscle cells will help pull with it the creatine (when muscular creatine stores are low).

    slowing down absorption would be counter productive (unless your taking it in from a food source and just filling creatine stores over time, but as for a supplement the whole point is the rapid absorption)
    almostgone likes this.

  8. #48
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Yeh they inject them in the studies but the next best thing someone can do at home is transdermal to avoid all the enzymes in the guts. Mix with a little DMSO, glycerol, and water, and rub on the skin. Oral would might still work but less effective.

    Slow releases is good. Maintain plasma levels for a long time, and some will be migrating into cells over that long time due to the fatty acid.

    Anyway I am taking tokkyo nutritions product now transdermally. Will let you know how it goes.

  9. #49
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,550
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    Yeh they inject them in the studies but the next best thing someone can do at home is transdermal to avoid all the enzymes in the guts. Mix with a little DMSO, glycerol, and water, and rub on the skin. Oral would might still work but less effective.

    Slow releases is good. Maintain plasma levels for a long time, and some will be migrating into cells over that long time due to the fatty acid.

    Anyway I am taking tokkyo nutritions product now transdermally. Will let you know how it goes.
    why would you want to maintain high blood levels of creatine for a long time ??
    the creatine in the blood stream is uselsss, let alone it being there for long periods of time.

    generally high blood level concentrations of anything over a long time is a bad thing , high elevated blood sugar levels (bad), high elevated blood potassium levels (bad), high elevated tri-glycerides (bad) etc..

    the purpose of things getting into the blood stream is for them to get taken in by the cell so that they can do what they were meant to do . if creatine monohydrate is rapidly absorbed, and not floating around the blood stream forever, then that is way more beneficial and healthy .

    high blood levels of something for prolonged periods of time are generally considered disease , eg., type 2 diabetes (high blood sugar levels) , Hyperkalemia (high blood potassium).

    so again , why do you think it would be a good thing to have super high blood serum levels of creatine over long periods of time ?
    almostgone and cousinmuscles like this.

  10. #50
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    why would you want to maintain high blood levels of creatine for a long time ??
    the creatine in the blood stream is uselsss, let alone it being there for long periods of time.

    generally high blood level concentrations of anything over a long time is a bad thing , high elevated blood sugar levels (bad), high elevated blood potassium levels (bad), high elevated tri-glycerides (bad) etc..

    the purpose of things getting into the blood stream is for them to get taken in by the cell so that they can do what they were meant to do . if creatine monohydrate is rapidly absorbed, and not floating around the blood stream forever, then that is way more beneficial and healthy .

    high blood levels of something for prolonged periods of time are generally considered disease , eg., type 2 diabetes (high blood sugar levels) , Hyperkalemia (high blood potassium).

    so again , why do you think it would be a good thing to have super high blood serum levels of creatine over long periods of time ?
    Not sure if serious or not. Before something can get taken up by cells it has to be in the blood . And the creatine molecule is the same wether it came from creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester, creatine decanoate or any of the other types of creatine. And you inject steroid decanoate esters, have high blood levels of steroids for long periods of time, and you want to say high blood levels of certain things are bad?

    Why do you hate creatine decanoate ester so much?

  11. #51
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,550
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    And you inject steroid decanoate esters, have high blood levels of steroids for long periods of time, and you want to say high blood levels of certain things are bad?
    actually maintaining high blood levels of hormones over a long period of time is what generally causes 'spill over' and negative side effects to come up from the steroid . personally I like fast esters that kick in quick and then quickly get bound to the receptor , its only at the receptor site that they are able to act on the DNA and illicit the benefits I'm taking the steroid for . it doe not do a whole lot of good just floating around the blood stream aimlessly , it needs to bind and illicit an action on a cell and receptor site.

  12. #52
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Sigh... yes but before it can bind any receptor site for a steroid or before an anti psychotic can bind a plasma protein or before creatine can get into cells they need to be in the blood so maintaining high blood levels over days is desirable. + the fatty acid might be able to pull whatever is bonded to it into the cell too which is good for creatine but not sure if good for steroids ? or anti psychotics.

  13. #53
    Couchlock is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    Sigh... yes but before it can bind any receptor site for a steroid or before an anti psychotic can bind a plasma protein or before creatine can get into cells they need to be in the blood so maintaining high blood levels over days is desirable. + the fatty acid might be able to pull whatever is bonded to it into the cell too which is good for creatine but not sure if good for steroids? or anti psychotics.
    Yeah, but a decanaote ester isn't going to release much at all

    Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

  14. #54
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Yeah, but a decanaote ester isn't going to release much at all

    Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk

  15. #55
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Bragging to someone
    Posts
    8,550
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    decanaote has about a 68% absorption rate, where as a propiante is 92%, and suspension (no ester) is 99%.

    decanaote esters are good for one thing, making it so you don't have to take the substance attached to that ester very often (slow and low absorption rate).
    so someone with muscle wasting disease only needs to go in for a shot of nandrolone -decanaote about once every two weeks, which is more convenient then every other day with other esters (but again absorption is much less).


    so I guess good for you , you only need to take your creatine - decanaoate 4 times per year . that sounds great, what a novel idea
    Obs likes this.

  16. #56
    Couchlock is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    2,737
    Also decanate Esters have a 15 day half life again creatine attached to that is a solution to a problem that does not exist

    Sent from my LGLS775 using Tapatalk
    GearHeaded and Obs like this.

  17. #57
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    15 day half life sheesh... that's awesome. Well yeh the half life of creatine in plasma is only 1.5 hours so adding the decanoate to it was a good idea.

    taken every half life that is a dose every 24 days ha. Then why aren't all athletes taking that form of creatine? Maybe some do but keep their mouths shut about it...someone should be selling the stuff by the 1kg. The only commercially available form is tokkyo nutrition.

  18. #58
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is offline Changed Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    20,334
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    15 day half life sheesh... that's awesome. Well yeh the half life of creatine in plasma is only 1.5 hours so adding the decanoate to it was a good idea.

    taken every half life that is a dose every 24 days ha. Then why aren't all athletes taking that form of creatine? Maybe some do but keep their mouths shut about it...someone should be selling the stuff by the 1kg. The only commercially available form is tokkyo nutrition.
    You are ignorant as hell and I will be glad when your shit stirring ass is gone. You have no future here and need to move on. Couch is suspended because he gets pissed when little punks like you shun all advice and act like little know-it-all's. I am getting fed up as well.

    We have recieved a surging wave of little punks like you and I am getting very tired of it and many others are too.
    You need to take your creatine decanoate somewhere else. Literally everything you have said is totally ignoring any advice you have been given from couch, gearhead, and kelkel, to me. You are being a condescending twat on a board of guys that live this shit. Why are you here punk?

  19. #59
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    I don't get what you mean talking about couchs suspension. It is a shame people like you exist on the earth. You must be very unhappy with your life to deliberately try to shut down other peoples curiosity, and their desire to find helpful supplements.

    Thanks couch for saying the half life is 15 days that was very helpful information. Onwards for creatine decanoate !

  20. #60
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is offline Changed Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    20,334
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    I don't get what you mean talking about couchs suspension. It is a shame people like you exist on the earth. You must be very unhappy with your life to deliberately try to shut down other peoples curiosity, and their desire to find helpful supplements.

    Thanks couch for saying the half life is 15 days that was very helpful information. Onwards for creatine decanoate !
    Hopefully the admin sees the issue soon.

  21. #61
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Yeh so you censor anyone who actually tried to help people. Pathetic. I guess I will be banned soon. Thanks for the info couch on the half life. Good riddance everyone else.

  22. #62
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is offline Changed Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    20,334
    You told six contributing members they were wrong in the snarkiest most smartass way you could, in the first page alone. Guys like you are gonna start disappearing or I will.

    We lose members because of ass clowns like you.

  23. #63
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    If you do actually lose members it is because of unhelpful people like you saying everything is bad except creatine monohydrate, and offering no help whatsoever.

  24. #64
    Gallowmere's Avatar
    Gallowmere is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    If you do actually lose members it is because of unhelpful people like you saying everything is bad except creatine monohydrate, and offering no help whatsoever.
    No one said it was bad in and of itself. They said it was pointless, which it is.

    What makes it bad, is that creatine esters are always sold at a massively increased price when compared to mono, to no added benefit. It's the old snake oil shakedown that preys upon the ignorance of the consumer.

  25. #65
    David LoPan's Avatar
    David LoPan is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Big Trouble, Little China
    Posts
    2,873
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by kronik420 View Post
    i'd rather eat a steak.. no ester. what's the half life on that?
    The half-life on Ester? Guess it depends on what she looks like.

  26. #66
    David LoPan's Avatar
    David LoPan is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Big Trouble, Little China
    Posts
    2,873
    Blog Entries
    1
    Understanding the different esters and their active half-life is hard for a lot of people that do not have a science background. And it depends on if it is an oral or an injectable. All orals have the liver first pass effect which really changes what you take and what your get. I stopped doing creatine a few years ago. Did not really see much benefit for myself. But that is just me.

  27. #67
    marcus300's Avatar
    marcus300 is offline ~Retired~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    ENGLAND
    Posts
    40,922
    Creatine is soooo old school there are far better choices these days

  28. #68
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTahl View Post
    Understanding the different esters and their active half-life is hard for a lot of people that do not have a science background. And it depends on if it is an oral or an injectable. All orals have the liver first pass effect which really changes what you take and what your get. I stopped doing creatine a few years ago. Did not really see much benefit for myself. But that is just me.
    No it is obvious. This is why I said make a transdermal preparation of creatine decanoate instead of taking it orally. And yes you saw no benefit because you were taking all the shit forms; creatine monohydrate being the main one.

    I got quoted 16 USD per kg of creatine decanoate by suppliers on ali baba. The problem is the minimum order quantity is 100kg. And it might get cheaper per kg then too so it is not very expensive. Maybe if a big ebay seller reads this they can think about re selling it.

    I am looking into creatine for medical reasons not body building so I am not on roids.

    Another form of creatine that looks good but seems impossible to get is creatine amide leucine/ creatyl l leucine. VPX sports had it in their old product cremtor, and they still have it in a drink product of theirs called bang but in very low amounts. It is probably highly bio available, and could use leucine transporters to enter cells along with creatine transporters. A manufacturer said they are very interested in it, and will look into making it.

  29. #69
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is offline AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    26,234
    Very interesting that creatine decanoate is waaaaaay down at the bottom of the list of the amount of creatine content and creatine mono is #2. Creatine decanoate has less than half the amount of creatine as creatine mono.
    Just confirms what I posted earlier, if creatine decanoate were to be effective, the dosage would be much higher than the 5g serving size Tokkyo suggests due to the decanoate ester.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...ort=objectonly
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  30. #70
    hollowedzeus is offline Productive Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,357
    Why is the product a 5g blend of deca , ethyl ester and mono....?

    So its not even 5g of sloe release creatine... its fuck knows how much of slow release....

    *whispers* its probably all monohydrate... its cheap as chips
    almostgone likes this.

  31. #71
    Gallowmere's Avatar
    Gallowmere is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    Why is the product a 5g blend of deca , ethyl ester and mono....?

    So its not even 5g of sloe release creatine... its fuck knows how much of slow release....

    *whispers* its probably all monohydrate... its cheap as chips
    And I'm sure it's an "uber-secret, high tech, ultra performance, muscle exploding, sex inducing, mega fat burning proprietary blend".
    almostgone, hollowedzeus and Obs like this.

  32. #72
    hollowedzeus is offline Productive Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,357
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    And I'm sure it's an "uber-secret, high tech, ultra performance, muscle exploding, sex inducing, mega fat burning proprietary blend".
    What actually happens is they suspend the creatine in nandrolone to make it release slower. Then you rub it on your tummy and it allows for maximal gains
    Obs likes this.

  33. #73
    Gallowmere's Avatar
    Gallowmere is offline Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    What actually happens is they suspend the creatine in nandrolone to make it release slower. Then you rub it on your tummy and it allows for maximal gains
    I would imagine that using it for an enema would make for better absorption.
    hollowedzeus and Obs like this.

  34. #74
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    Why is the product a 5g blend of deca , ethyl ester and mono....?

    So its not even 5g of sloe release creatine... its fuck knows how much of slow release....

    *whispers* its probably all monohydrate... its cheap as chips
    Possibly so when someone takes it, and notices a difference they aren't sure which form it is, and might think it is due to the CM or CEE. This maintains the industry lie that CM is the "best form of creatine there is, proven safe, and effective blah blah blah". If crea deca were sale alone people would take that, and so mono sales would drop.

    Creatine decanoate has less than half the amount of creatine as creatine mono
    Well considering it will be 1000000% times more bioavailable than CM 50% less by weight doesn't matter.

  35. #75
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is offline AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    26,234
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    Possibly so when someone takes it, and notices a difference they aren't sure which form it is, and might think it is due to the CM or CEE. This maintains the industry lie that CM is the "best form of creatine there is, proven safe, and effective blah blah blah". If crea deca were sale alone people would take that, and so mono sales would drop.



    Well considering it will be 1000000% times more bioavailable than CM 50% less by weight doesn't matter.
    Just so you know, that was the same argument put forth for creatine ethyl ester when it came on the market, and it was disproven. However they didn't stretch the bioavailability amount like you did.
    I hope you enjoy your creatine decanoate
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  36. #76
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Less than 1% of an oral dose of creatine mono makes it to the blood as actual creatine. Most of the other 99% makes it to the blood as creatININE. Creatine ethyl ester is way more bioavailable because it doesn't convert to creatinine in the stomach unlike mono however ethyl ester does not have the long half life like decanoates nor is it lipid soluble enough to penetrate cell membranes.

    So you are wrong.

    And I will enjoy my decanoate. But there may be something even better which I will try soon.

  37. #77
    almostgone's Avatar
    almostgone is offline AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    the lower carolina
    Posts
    26,234
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    Less than 1% of an oral dose of creatine mono makes it to the blood as actual creatine. Most of the other 99% makes it to the blood as creatININE. Creatine ethyl ester is way more bioavailable because it doesn't convert to creatinine in the stomach unlike mono however ethyl ester does not have the long half life like decanoates nor is it lipid soluble enough to penetrate cell membranes.

    So you are wrong.

    And I will enjoy my decanoate. But there may be something even better which I will try soon.
    Umm, no I'm not.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ubmed_RVDocSum


    In conclusion, when compared to creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester was not as effective at increasing serum and muscle creatine levels or in improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power.

    Edit: Again, I hope you enjoy your creatine decanoate or whatever else you try.
    Last edited by almostgone; 11-24-2017 at 04:56 PM.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
    A minimum of 100 posts and 45 days membership required for source checks. Source checks are performed at my discretion.

  38. #78
    Obs's Avatar
    Obs
    Obs is offline Changed Man
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    20,334
    Quote Originally Posted by workingout123 View Post
    Less than 1% of an oral dose of creatine mono makes it to the blood as actual creatine. Most of the other 99% makes it to the blood as creatININE. Creatine ethyl ester is way more bioavailable because it doesn't convert to creatinine in the stomach unlike mono however ethyl ester does not have the long half life like decanoates nor is it lipid soluble enough to penetrate cell membranes.

    So you are wrong.

    And I will enjoy my decanoate. But there may be something even better which I will try soon.
    You should try some humility. Good stuff.
    almostgone likes this.

  39. #79
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    dont ask for a source thx
    Posts
    9,058
    Blog Entries
    3
    I cant even believe the patience of you guys trying to talk sense into this guy...why are you all wasting your time?... he is obviously smarter than all of us and is onto some groundbreaking game changing revolutionary shit here we all should listen close and learn...I for one and throwing all my gear away and jumping on the real deca =creatine deconate...thank you op for overthinking this and re-inventing the wheel for us all...
    almostgone and Obs like this.

  40. #80
    workingout123 is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by almostgone View Post
    Umm, no I'm not.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...ubmed_RVDocSum


    In conclusion, when compared to creatine monohydrate, creatine ethyl ester was not as effective at increasing serum and muscle creatine levels or in improving body composition, muscle mass, strength, and power.

    Edit: Again, I hope you enjoy your creatine decanoate or whatever else you try.
    Umm we already established the industry lie is to say all other forms of creatine are not as good as mono. The lie extends all the way to the literature. However the lie is not in the patents. In there they say the reality of mono that it all converts to creatinine in the stomach, causes stomach cramps, liver, and kidney problems etc.
    You should try some humility. Good stuff.
    Says a guy who probably thinks he is better than everyone else because of his big muscles he got not mainly due to working but simply just injecting steroids a few times a week. Right....

    I cant even believe the patience of you guys trying to talk sense into this guy...why are you all wasting your time?... he is obviously smarter than all of us and is onto some groundbreaking game changing revolutionary shit here we all should listen close and learn...I for one and throwing all my gear away and jumping on the real deca =creatine deconate...thank you op for overthinking this and re-inventing the wheel for us all...
    Well tokkyo nutrition must be the real genius or the chemist who first made creatine decanoate ester. Not that it would be hard. Maybe simpletones like you think it is though.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •