My First Cycle... Let The Trolling Begin

[SwolfPack]

Hey guys.

I've spent a significant amount of time on this website reading through different discussions regarding multiple topics around AAS.

I am at the point in my life where I have personally decided I am prepared to try my first cycle. Hence why I created this account, and am now making this post.

I suppose I should start with some statistics.

Age: 25
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 216 LBS
BF %: ~14%


Nutrition:
Due to a desire for simplicity and regiment, I eat the same thing every day.
4500 calories | 50% Carbs | 30% Protein | 20% Fats

1st Meal:
1x Scoop Optimum Nutrition Mass Gainer
1x Scoop Optimum Nutrition Whey Protein
16oz Water

2nd Meal:
6x Eggs
3x Pieces of Whole Wheat Toast

3rd Meal:
1x Scoop Optimum Nutrition Mass Gainer
1x Scoop Optimum Nutrition Whey Protein
16oz Water

4th Meal:
10oz Baked Chicken w/ Fresh Pesto
9oz Whole Grain Brown Rice

5th Meal:
1x Scoop Optimum Nutrition Mass Gainer
1x Scoop Optimum Nutrition Whey Protein
16oz Water

6th Meal:
10oz Baked Chicken w/ Fresh Pesto
9oz Whole Grain Brown Rice

From my understanding, 4500 calories put me in a ~1,000 daily caloric surplus.

This has worked well for me gaining mass naturally. Do I need to increase my caloric intake while on cycle? If so, by how much? I understand that it will constantly change as I gain weight.


I started working out consistently towards the beginning of 2012, about a year before I enlisted in the military.

I was in a special operations MOS so our workout routine was intense and consistent. Initially I had to train to be an endurance athlete in order to succeed throughout the rigorous 2 year selection process. Shortly thereafter, around 2014, I was able to adjust my workout routine to be based around bodybuilding with an emphasis on heavy compound lifts. I maintained this style of lifting until the present time, only making adjustments in order to push through plateaus or situations of the sort.

I have had plenty of quality courses of instruction regarding health and fitness, proper exercise, and nutrition and consider myself to be quite knowledgeable on the process of reaching any health and fitness goal. That being said, I am always eager to learn more, and welcome and constructive criticism that you may have to offer.



I hope that was enough of a background to give you an idea where I am at in my fitness journey. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask in the comments and I will do my best to respond ASAP.




On to the proposed cycle...

After doing quite a fair amount of sifting through forums, I have decided to go with the Test/Deca /Dbol cycle.

CYCLE:
Weeks 1-6: Dbol(Methan 10) 40mg(4 pills) / day 1 hr before workout
Weeks 1-10: 500mg Test E / week (2x 250mg per week)
Weeks 1-10: 250mg Deca / week (2x 125mg per week)
Weeks 1-10: Aromasin 12.5mg(half a pill) / EOD

Weeks 12-16: Clomid 100/100/50/50 or 100mg per day for 4 weeks
Weeks 12-16: Aromasin 25/25/25/25/12.5/12.5 (read an article that said 25mg daily for no longer than 2 weeks though? Run Clomid for 4 total weeks)


I would like to know people's opinion on this for my first bulking cycle.

As I stated before, I am eager to learn. Please feel free to share any advice or wisdom which you may find applicable.

Thank you!

[Mr. Small]

Ditch the Deca

[SwolfPack]

Ditch the Deca

Thanks for the quick reply brother.

Do you recommend a replacement with another AAS? If so, which one?

Why is your preference to get rid of the Deca ?

Thank you

[Mr. Small]

Don't forget HCG during cycle to keep your nuts from shrinking and Nolvadex for PCT alongside Clomid.

[Mr. Small]

Thanks for the quick reply brother.

Do you recommend a replacement with another AAS? If so, which one?

Why is your preference to get rid of the Deca ?

Thank you

First cycle only is Test only.....about 500mg per week. You don't need Deca or D-Bol yet.

[SwolfPack]

Don't forget HCG during cycle to keep your nuts from shrinking and Nolvadex for PCT alongside Clomid.

Do you have any recommendation regarding the amount of HCG I should be taking during cycle as well as the intervals in which I should be taking it?

Do you have any recommendation regarding the amount of Nolvadex I should be taking during PCT as well as the intervals in which I should be taking it?

[SwolfPack]

First cycle only is Test only.....about 500mg per week. You don't need Deca or D-Bol yet.

Okay. At which cycle do you believe I should be considering the incorporation of Deca and/or Dbol ?

[GearHeaded]

the first cycle needs to be test only because you need to learn how your body responds to androgens, estrogen, and DHT. thats three things to worry about and give you possible negative sides.

now if you throw in Deca , now you have a progesterone based compound that is capable of elevating your prolactin or give you progestone based gyno , or prolactin based deca dick. you may need a dopamine agonist like caber or prami. Thats a few more things you have to worry about controlling.

now throw Dbol in there . Dbol converts to a very powerful form of estrogen (diff then testosterone ) that needs controlled. Its also a very wet compound capable of giving you a lot of bloat, water retention and high blood pressure. thats even more things you have to worry about controlling.


do you see how many variables you now have to worry about when you have all 3 of these compounds on a first cycle ? you won't know whats causing what issue cause your not experienced with each compound individually

stick to test only, learn to control those variables first

[Jerry2020]

Look up the top of this forum section and have a look through the first cycle thread. Best info you will get. Has all the info I’m about to tell you.

From my understanding if you are using Aromasin as your AI you should dose it daily due to its short half-life, 12.5mg daily is what I and most people seem to start with. If you use Arimidex you can dose eod due to its longer half life.

HCG twice weekly just like the Test injections, 250iu each injection for a total 500iu HCG per week.

Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT, not Clomid and Aromasin. Dosage instructions for PCT included in the first cycle thread mentioned earlier.

Edit: I’m halfway through my first cycle. You don’t need more than Test E for a first cycle. Have a look at my log in the members results section and you’ll see how I’ve been going so far, up 20+ lb already and getting some huge strength gains. It sounds like you’ve got an even better base and are easily as disciplined as me so you should see great results too

[cousinmuscles]

the first cycle needs to be test only because you need to learn how your body responds to androgens, estrogen, and DHT. thats three things to worry about and give you possible negative sides.

now if you throw in Deca , now you have a progesterone based compound that is capable of elevating your prolactin or give you progestone based gyno , or prolactin based deca dick. you may need a dopamine agonist like caber or prami. Thats a few more things you have to worry about controlling.

now throw Dbol in there . Dbol converts to a very powerful form of estrogen (diff then testosterone ) that needs controlled. Its also a very wet compound capable of giving you a lot of bloat, water retention and high blood pressure. thats even more things you have to worry about controlling.


do you see how many variables you now have to worry about when you have all 3 of these compounds on a first cycle ? you won't know whats causing what issue cause your not experienced with each compound individually

stick to test only, learn to control those variables first

Boss!

Something to add about the diet, the serious mass gainer is basically just maltodextrin, protein powder, and some vitamins. It is both cheaper and healthier to choose something else that gives you more beneficial stuff. Don't worry about macro splits it won't make or break your gains. If you have time to use a blender you could mix whey with some peanut butter, banana, some raw cocoa powder, some milk if you don't have lactose issues. Your diet seems low on the healthy fat part and you don't eat so much veggies either.

There are threads regarding the proper use of aromasin as it is very fast acting. Exemestane-The Underdosed AI
From my personal experience it seemed EOD dosing at 12.5mg wasn't optimal. I had pretty bad acne forming and I get acne when hormones change drastically. Even PCT meds make my back look like crap. At 600mg test per week I found 2x6.25mg per day (quarter of a pill) to be just perfect without compromising gains, and the acne was at bay...

[Mr. Small]

Do you have any recommendation regarding the amount of HCG I should be taking during cycle as well as the intervals in which I should be taking it?

Do you have any recommendation regarding the amount of Nolvadex I should be taking during PCT as well as the intervals in which I should be taking it?

250iu of HCG twice per week and 40mg of Nolvadex a day for the first week, followed by 20mg per day for weeks 2,3 and 4.
Save the Deca and Dbol for cycle 3 or 4 dude.

[MACKATTACK]

I am a big believer in WHOLE FOOD and not shakes. Shakes PWO ok perfect but I would drop the other two for whole food.

[David LoPan]

I am a big believer in WHOLE FOOD and not shakes. Shakes PWO ok perfect but I would drop the other two for whole food.

I like to do both. Nothing like waking up in the AM and putting a cup of berries, protein powder, psyllium husks and milk in a shake before the shower. After I get ready it is back to food. Sometimes it is just hard, or very unconfortable to eat whole food to make your TDEE while bulking. If Dorian Yates promotes shakes in his diet and nutrition plan than I am going to follow what he is saying. just MHO

[MACKATTACK]

I like to do both. Nothing like waking up in the AM and putting a cup of berries, protein powder, psyllium husks and milk in a shake before the shower. After I get ready it is back to food. Sometimes it is just hard, or very unconfortable to eat whole food to make your TDEE while bulking. If Dorian Yates promotes shakes in his diet and nutrition plan than I am going to follow what he is saying. just MHO

Not everyone is as big of a freak genetically as Dorian Yates, so what works for him doesn't mean it will for anyone else, diet wise. I mean Arnold ate huge chunks of cheese lol.

Honestly I feel diet for everyone is different, sure there is the basics to stick to like average split of Macros, but everyone responds differently to different foods. If the shakes work then great. I don't mind a morning shake myself because its tough sometimes to be cooking up eggs, turkey bacon and oats.....etc, takes too much time sometimes lol.

[David LoPan]

Not everyone is as big of a freak genetically as Dorian Yates, so what works for him doesn't mean it will for anyone else, diet wise. I mean Arnold ate huge chunks of cheese lol.

Honestly I feel diet for everyone is different, sure there is the basics to stick to like average split of Macros, but everyone responds differently to different foods. If the shakes work then great. I don't mind a morning shake myself because its tough sometimes to be cooking up eggs, turkey bacon and oats.....etc, takes too much time sometimes lol.

turkey bacon WTF is that? If I am going to eat bacon then I am eating real bacon. But when you wake up at 3 am hungry a shake will do. It's freaking hard to get 300 g of protein with real food everyday.

I also do like having that nice farting that comes with a shake then eggs in the morning.

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[charger69]

I am a big believer in WHOLE FOOD and not shakes. Shakes PWO ok perfect but I would drop the other two for whole food.

I agree. The shakes do not provide you with all of the nutrients of food.
There is a place for them IMO but not for replacement of food.



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[MACKATTACK]

turkey bacon WTF is that? If I am going to eat bacon then I am eating real bacon. But when you wake up at 3 am hungry a shake will do. It's freaking hard to get 300 g of protein with real food everyday.

I also do like having that nice farting that comes with a shake then eggs in the morning.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Lately its been very bad in my household lol......

[SwolfPack]

the first cycle needs to be test only because you need to learn how your body responds to androgens, estrogen, and DHT. thats three things to worry about and give you possible negative sides.

now if you throw in Deca , now you have a progesterone based compound that is capable of elevating your prolactin or give you progestone based gyno , or prolactin based deca dick. you may need a dopamine agonist like caber or prami. Thats a few more things you have to worry about controlling.

now throw Dbol in there . Dbol converts to a very powerful form of estrogen (diff then testosterone ) that needs controlled. Its also a very wet compound capable of giving you a lot of bloat, water retention and high blood pressure. thats even more things you have to worry about controlling.


do you see how many variables you now have to worry about when you have all 3 of these compounds on a first cycle ? you won't know whats causing what issue cause your not experienced with each compound individually

stick to test only, learn to control those variables first

Thank you for the educational information. I completely understand why it is important to start with just one compound now. I will adjust accordingly.

[SwolfPack]

Look up the top of this forum section and have a look through the first cycle thread. Best info you will get. Has all the info I’m about to tell you.

From my understanding if you are using Aromasin as your AI you should dose it daily due to its short half-life, 12.5mg daily is what I and most people seem to start with. If you use Arimidex you can dose eod due to its longer half life.

HCG twice weekly just like the Test injections, 250iu each injection for a total 500iu HCG per week.

Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT, not Clomid and Aromasin. Dosage instructions for PCT included in the first cycle thread mentioned earlier.

Edit: I’m halfway through my first cycle. You don’t need more than Test E for a first cycle. Have a look at my log in the members results section and you’ll see how I’ve been going so far, up 20+ lb already and getting some huge strength gains. It sounds like you’ve got an even better base and are easily as disciplined as me so you should see great results too

Hey brother. Thanks for the information.

I just read through the articles at the top of this subforum and they were great for giving me a more concrete foundation of information.

I will make the adjustments to my cycle to incorporate HCG, keep the aromasin for my AI during cycle, then do a PCT with Novlvadex and Clomid at the prescribed doses per the "stickied" articles.

Thanks again for the resources.

[SwolfPack]

Boss!

Something to add about the diet, the serious mass gainer is basically just maltodextrin, protein powder, and some vitamins. It is both cheaper and healthier to choose something else that gives you more beneficial stuff. Don't worry about macro splits it won't make or break your gains. If you have time to use a blender you could mix whey with some peanut butter, banana, some raw cocoa powder, some milk if you don't have lactose issues. Your diet seems low on the healthy fat part and you don't eat so much veggies either.

There are threads regarding the proper use of aromasin as it is very fast acting.

From my personal experience it seemed EOD dosing at 12.5mg wasn't optimal. I had pretty bad acne forming and I get acne when hormones change drastically. Even PCT meds make my back look like crap. At 600mg test per week I found 2x6.25mg per day (quarter of a pill) to be just perfect without compromising gains, and the acne was at bay...

Hey brother. I appreciate the advice on the diet. I will take that into consideration as I continue to go forward. I think right now I have just appreciated the simplicity of eating the same thing every day. Maybe i'll try and switch out a weight gainer shake or two for more whole foods.

Regarding the Aromasin, I will be sure to read the articles you listed. I'll take your advice on board and I will plan on taking 12.5mg ED instead of EOD.

Thank you for the thoughtful advice.

[SwolfPack]

250iu of HCG twice per week and 40mg of Nolvadex a day for the first week, followed by 20mg per day for weeks 2,3 and 4.
Save the Deca and Dbol for cycle 3 or 4 dude.

Awesome brother. I read this advice on the sticky as well and will plan on incorporating it.

Thank you.

[SwolfPack]

I am a big believer in WHOLE FOOD and not shakes. Shakes PWO ok perfect but I would drop the other two for whole food.

I'm right there with you. I've just never been a big eater and I guess I've been taking the easy route by trying to cram the calories in with shakes. I'll heed your advice and switch one or two out for whole foods.

Thanks man.

[PistolPete33]

As others have already said you don't need Deca . Test Only is all you need along with HCG , Arimidex and PCT meds. The problem is everything thinks more is more and honestly that's not typically the case. Esp. with a first cycle. Test alone will change your life. You're obviously into this for the long-haul so be smart about things. So many jump in using multiple compounds and after their 2nd cycle wonder why nothing is happening anymore. Take it slow and enjoy the ride. It's a marathon not a sprint.

[SwolfPack]

Taking everyone's advice into consideration, I have decided to make some adjustments to my proposed cycle.

My new proposed cycle:

Weeks 1-10: 500mg Test E / week (2x 250mg per week)
Weeks 1-10: Aromasin 12.5mg(half a pill) / ED
Weeks 1-10: HCG 500iu / week (2x 250iu per week taken with Test injection)
Two weeks off, since last test pin, to allow hormones to return to homeostasis
Weeks 12-16: Clomid 100/100/50/50
Weeks 12-16: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20


Looking forward to hearing any advice based on the new plan of action. If it looks okay, would also appreciate to hear that as well, so I have a sense of security that I'm doing this correctly.

Is there anything not listed above which I need to have on hand to combat any sides?

[Mr. Small]

Taking everyone's advice into consideration, I have decided to make some adjustments to my proposed cycle.

My new proposed cycle:

Weeks 1-10: 500mg Test E / week (2x 250mg per week)
Weeks 1-10: Aromasin 12.5mg(half a pill) / ED
Weeks 1-10: HCG 500iu / week (2x 250iu per week taken with Test injection)
Two weeks off, since last test pin, to allow hormones to return to homeostasis
Weeks 12-16: Clomid 100/100/50/50
Weeks 12-16: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20


Looking forward to hearing any advice based on the new plan of action. If it looks okay, would also appreciate to hear that as well, so I have a sense of security that I'm doing this correctly.

Is there anything not listed above which I need to have on hand to combat any sides?

Looks good dude.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I wouldn't recommend drinking mass gainer 3 times a day...

[SwolfPack]

I wouldn't recommend drinking mass gainer 3 times a day...

Thanks brother. Decided I would switch one or two out with some whole foods.

[David LoPan]

I wouldn't recommend drinking mass gainer 3 times a day...

I would not either, I missed your meal plan in the first post. This is where I would suggest you head to next to get your meal plan fixed. http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutrition/ When I stated earlier that I did like protein shakes I use them as a tool to help me get my protein, not as a total meal replacement. I think doing a meal prep would really help you add viarety and get your more

[David LoPan]

Taking everyone's advice into consideration, I have decided to make some adjustments to my proposed cycle.

My new proposed cycle:

Weeks 1-10: 500mg Test E / week (2x 250mg per week)
Weeks 1-10: Aromasin 12.5mg(half a pill) / ED
Weeks 1-10: HCG 500iu / week (2x 250iu per week taken with Test injection)
Two weeks off, since last test pin, to allow hormones to return to homeostasis
Weeks 12-16: Clomid 100/100/50/50
Weeks 12-16: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20


Looking forward to hearing any advice based on the new plan of action. If it looks okay, would also appreciate to hear that as well, so I have a sense of security that I'm doing this correctly.

Is there anything not listed above which I need to have on hand to combat any sides?

Someone to bang on a consistent basis, your sex drive is going to increase a lot!

[GearHeaded]

Taking everyone's advice into consideration, I have decided to make some adjustments to my proposed cycle.

My new proposed cycle:

Weeks 1-10: 500mg Test E / week (2x 250mg per week)
Weeks 1-10: Aromasin 12.5mg(half a pill) / ED
Weeks 1-10: HCG 500iu / week (2x 250iu per week taken with Test injection)
Two weeks off, since last test pin, to allow hormones to return to homeostasis
Weeks 12-16: Clomid 100/100/50/50
Weeks 12-16: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20

take the Aromasin up until the day you start pct . Test e will still be in your system after you start pinning. you do not want to go into Pct with elevated estrogen as that will hinder recovery (if E is high then your body will not want to produce test)

[SwolfPack]

I would not either, I missed your meal plan in the first post. This is where I would suggest you head to next to get your meal plan fixed.
When I stated earlier that I did like protein shakes I use them as a tool to help me get my protein, not as a total meal replacement. I think doing a meal prep would really help you add viarety and get your more

Thanks for the resource buddy. Reading through different posts now.

I was just worried that the more complex I make my nutrition, the more likely I am to miss a day. I figured if I ate the exact same thing every day, and kept it to simple meals, it would become routine and I wouldn't even have to think about it. Which is true, but it sounds like I may be sacrificing some of my gains as well if I continue eating the nutrition plan I currently am.

It was my understanding that the type of food I eat will primarily effect my health, while the amount and type of macronutrients I eat will primarily effect my body composition. Is this incorrect?

Thanks again for taking the time to help me understand this.

[SwolfPack]

take the Aromasin up until the day you start pct . Test e will still be in your system after you start pinning. you do not want to go into Pct with elevated estrogen as that will hinder recovery (if E is high then your body will not want to produce test)

Totally makes sense. I'll be sure to take the Aromasin until the day I start PCT. Thanks for not making me learn that one the hard way.

[1moreset024]

turkey bacon WTF is that? If I am going to eat bacon then I am eating real bacon. But when you wake up at 3 am hungry a shake will do. It's freaking hard to get 300 g of protein with real food everyday.

I also do like having that nice farting that comes with a shake then eggs in the morning.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

And....

Those farts prove to be worth thier weight in gold when it comes to clearing certain pieces of equipment in the gyms during these next few "resolution weeks" in crowded gyms....