Athlete Requesting Critique On First Ever Cycle! Please provide your advice & tips!

**Last_Ride** · 04-04-2018, 05:31 AM

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**GottaStartSomewhere** · 04-04-2018, 06:54 AM

Interesting... I would like to see some professionals or knowledgeable responses...

Also with this same cycle set up would the increase be greater with an added 30mg of Winstrol to this cycle ?

**Dannyboy51577** · 04-04-2018, 07:49 AM

Ok, couple things. Are you going to be required to take drug test for ped's? If so, you will want to be very careful, go with shortest esters possible to get it out of your system quickest, amd quickest pct, as pct meds can alter drug tests as well.

Also understand, if this is sonething you are going to do- steroids will not have an immediate positive impact on ligaments and tendons- so even though your strength may increase and muscles may handle more, your tendons will be vulnerable during this time-you will want to push harder but they may not handle it.

Not sure what sport, but if you are not looking for any sort of interference with joints, i would suggest avoiding the winstrol for now- it will dry you out, you will not get massive strength gains from it anyway, and will suffer dryness in joints. If you decide you are set on adding something- a simple 50mg dbol for the first 4 wks is fine, being that its only a 10 wk cycle. Dbol will give you what you are looking dor as far as strength, some water, and improved muscle gains, better fit than winny.

Hcg - once reconstituted- you can use anninsulin syringe- grab a little fat around the belly anywhere, blast it there. Dosage depends on how full and happy your boys (nuts) are. I do 250iu twice a wk and have no prob. If they seem a little tight or little shrunk, you can do 3 times per wk.

Biggest thing to remember is every person is unique-unique reactions, gains, etc. One rule doesnt apply to all. Again, im.not sure of your sport or drug testing requirements- but i would STRONGLY suggest finding out those rules before starting to out stuff into your body, make sure you can get it in and out before having an issue. Being your next competition is december, you have plenty of time for one basic cycle, pct, etc to get you back on track and clear out with plenty of time before competing

**Dannyboy51577** · 04-04-2018, 07:54 AM

I skipped your one other question-blood work- of utmost importance. get bloods drawn pre cycle- sure liver, lipids, metabolic panel- also estradiol (e2 sensitive), free test, total test, fsh, Lh. You want to be sure to know where your levels are so when you are done, you can make sure they get back to where they were.

**ScotchGuard02** · 04-04-2018, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by Last_Ride

Hello everyone

This is my 1st post here & I hope I get the same kind of invaluable advice that this forum is famed for…

A brief backstory -
I have had a terrible last 5 months with 2 serious back to back injuries that has really hampered my growth (both in my discipline & physically). It was a really frustrating period for me sitting at home watching my 3 biggest competitors surpass me & land endorsements which would have otherwise gone to me. My strength decreased rapidly coz I could not workout & my BF% shot up from the usual 12 to my current 18 bcz I was gorging on anything & everything in my frustration. Finally, after being declared fit by our doctor 43days back, I had started working out like a madman, 2ce a day, with great intensity but I can feel that my strength & endurance is nowhere close to the peak. With an all-important competition approaching in December, I just cannot afford to take it easy. Hence I have decided to go for my 1st ever cycle, a simple Test E cycle, to give me that extra something (Wanted to add winstrol too but I read of it's damaging effects on your joints, which are all-important to me). Plus taking it now would mean it would wash out of my system by December…

Stats -
Age- 28
Height - 5ft 7in
Weight - 72 kgs (Can’t afford to gain much coz it would mess with my speed & agility)
BF%- 18 (Usually never above 13)
Gender - Male

Proposed Cycle -
Test E - Weeks 1-10 - 500mg/wk (2 pins a week, Monday & Thursday)
HCG - Weeks 1-12 (last pin 3days before starting PCT) - 500iu/wk (2 pins/week, on the same days as Test E)
Arimidex - Weeks 1-12 - 0.25mg EOD

PCT - Nolvadex - Weeks 13-17 - 40/40/20/20/20
Clomid- Weeks 13-16 - 100/100/50/50

Will also take Liv-52, Milk Thistle, TUDCA/NAC and my regulars - Taurine & Fish Oil during cycle

Questions -

1) I am somewhat confused on the PCT. I had read about this combination of Nolva+Clomid in most places during my research but I recently read an article named “The Perfect PCT” which mentions a host of other products to take in the 2 weeks preceding & during PCT - HCGenerate + Ostarine + Cardarine + Liver Supplement… What are your views on this?? Are so many things really necessary??

2) What are the parameters in a blood test that I have to get examined on, before, during & after the cycle? Lipid Profile, Liver Function Test, Kidney Function Test, Free Test etc are some of them, I guess. What are the others that I need to get tested on??

3) Where would you recommend injecting the HCG? While some articles recommend intramuscular injections in the outer quads, others suggest subcutaneous, in the belly area (4-5 inches away from the naval area)…

Main Goal Behind This Cycle ->
My main aim behind this cycle is rapid increase in strength, endurance & muscle mass (which I have largely lost during prolonged period of bed-rest) in 10 weeks. I want to gain considerable muscle mass (some of it will be water) & then cut down (after cycle) to 77-78 kgs of pure muscle with 12% bf & great strength by September.

All these would be so easy if I could just talk to our coach about it but it is strictly no-no & I am on my own in this. Hence relying a lot on you veterans for your insight & advice…

December is 8 months (32wks) away so you have time. My recommendation would be to run two short cycles instead of one long one. An 8 week Test Prop cycle, rest, followed by 4 weeks of PCT is 13 weeks. Rest for 13 weeks comes to 26 weeks. Then run an Anavar only cycle for 3 weeks and the Anavar will clear your system in 3 weeks. Test Prop detection time is 8 weeks and Anavar is 3 weeks.

**Lemonada8** · 04-04-2018, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Last_Ride

Hello everyone

This is my 1st post here & I hope I get the same kind of invaluable advice that this forum is famed for…

A brief backstory -
I have had a terrible last 5 months with 2 serious back to back injuries that has really hampered my growth (both in my discipline & physically). It was a really frustrating period for me sitting at home watching my 3 biggest competitors surpass me & land endorsements which would have otherwise gone to me. My strength decreased rapidly coz I could not workout & my BF% shot up from the usual 12 to my current 18 bcz I was gorging on anything & everything in my frustration. Finally, after being declared fit by our doctor 43days back, I had started working out like a madman, 2ce a day, with great intensity but I can feel that my strength & endurance is nowhere close to the peak. With an all-important competition approaching in December, I just cannot afford to take it easy. Hence I have decided to go for my 1st ever cycle, a simple Test E cycle, to give me that extra something (Wanted to add winstrol too but I read of it's damaging effects on your joints, which are all-important to me). Plus taking it now would mean it would wash out of my system by December…

Stats -
Age- 28
Height - 5ft 7in
Weight - 72 kgs (Can’t afford to gain much coz it would mess with my speed & agility)
BF%- 18 (Usually never above 13)
Gender - Male

Proposed Cycle -
Test E - Weeks 1-10 - 500mg/wk (2 pins a week, Monday & Thursday)
HCG - Weeks 1-12 (last pin 3days before starting PCT) - 500iu/wk (2 pins/week, on the same days as Test E)
Arimidex - Weeks 1-12 - 0.25mg EOD

PCT - Nolvadex - Weeks 13-17 - 40/40/20/20/20
Clomid- Weeks 13-16 - 100/100/50/50

Will also take Liv-52, Milk Thistle, TUDCA/NAC and my regulars - Taurine & Fish Oil during cycle

Questions -

1) I am somewhat confused on the PCT. I had read about this combination of Nolva+Clomid in most places during my research but I recently read an article named “The Perfect PCT” which mentions a host of other products to take in the 2 weeks preceding & during PCT - HCGenerate + Ostarine + Cardarine + Liver Supplement… What are your views on this?? Are so many things really necessary??

Please provide a link to the "perfect PCT" info that you are referring to, I am unfamilar with this reading. As for your PCT plan, i would add in 1 more week of Nolva so 6 weeks of Nolva 40/40/20/20/20/20. Ur clomid is fine. Otherwise ur PCT plan looks good to go.

2) What are the parameters in a blood test that I have to get examined on, before, during & after the cycle? Lipid Profile, Liver Function Test, Kidney Function Test, Free Test etc are some of them, I guess. What are the others that I need to get tested on??

Meh, nothing really standard really... but if you are capable of getting some bloodwork, it would be advisable to get a CBC, CMP, Lipid Panel, Thyroid Panel, Testosterone Panel *free and bound testosterone*, Total estrogen *which will be harder to justify, not as critical*, HbA1c

3) Where would you recommend injecting the HCG? While some articles recommend intramuscular injections in the outer quads, others suggest subcutaneous, in the belly area (4-5 inches away from the naval area)…

SubQ, In ur abdomen, belly fat. Easiest way.

Main Goal Behind This Cycle ->
My main aim behind this cycle is rapid increase in strength, endurance & muscle mass (which I have largely lost during prolonged period of bed-rest) in 10 weeks. I want to gain considerable muscle mass (some of it will be water) & then cut down (after cycle) to 77-78 kgs of pure muscle with 12% bf & great strength by September.

All these would be so easy if I could just talk to our coach about it but it is strictly no-no & I am on my own in this. Hence relying a lot on you veterans for your insight & advice…

For the bolded and Red statement above, I would STRONGLY advise AGAINST going on a cycle. You only started working out again recently (43 days) and yes you are working hard, congrats; HOWEVER, as you stated above, you ARE NOT NEAR YOUR PEAK!!!!! This GREATLY increases your risk for injuring yourself with tendon/ligament injuries due to the increased strain on them due to the increased hypertrophy of the muscles relative to the gains of the tendons/ligaments. There is much less bloodflow to tendons/ligaments resulting is decreased rate of hypertrophy/strength-gaining. This combined with the recent stall in training prior likely resulted in a halt in the strength gained in the tendons/ligaments. Now you are going hard back at training putting those structures under increased stress. To start a cycle of AAS while you are not at your peak will just increase the risk of rupturing those structures likely resulting in needing a surgical repair. (Most tendon/ligament tears require surgery due to the decreased blood flow, esp if u are an active person and want to stay active, which it sounds like u want to do).

I would strongly advise against it now, and hold off it until you reach a peak for a minimum of 6 months to allow ur tendons/ligaments to fully adjust to the increased stress you are putting on them and allow them to get stronger and be able to support more stress when u eventually do a cycle of AAS.
There, that being said, now i can advise about the AAS usage.

Now I dont know what type of sport you do but I assume it must deal with weight training and being strong, more than speed and agility, but cant focus entirely on strength, must have a balance. With athletes especially, I advise a Test Prop cycle ( i love test prop, and was a athlete myself so i know where ur coming from). A short 50mg ED 7 week cycle is a good starting cycle, minimal bloat, keep most of ur gains, u dont swell up and shrink down so its not very noticable to others to draw suspicion, along with HCG on cycle, a good PCT, its a relatively good cycle. I did not use an AI on cycle. For a first cycle, using an AI on cycle is debatable IMO, I personally dont use one and dont plan to use one. I did use Nolva on cycle however due to being gyno prone ( had pubertal gyno) which was taken care of with the nolva. I recovered well and have done well since.

You need to get ur diet in check, eat real clean, have a good training schedule. U have gained 5% bf in a short period of time, and it will take a while to get that off, eating good will be the foundation to do that.

Please note, Although I did give cycle advise, I DO NOT ADVISE YOU DO A CYCLE WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But, sometimes peoples minds are made up and instead of be totally ignored and fight a losing battle, I'd rather give proper advise and help you do what you choose to do properly and not f*ck yourself up.

That being said, check out my blog, under my name, real good read over the basics. Best of luck, any questions just ask here, or u can PM me.

**cousinmuscles** · 04-04-2018, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Last_Ride

Hello everyone

This is my 1st post here & I hope I get the same kind of invaluable advice that this forum is famed for…

A brief backstory -
I have had a terrible last 5 months with 2 serious back to back injuries that has really hampered my growth (both in my discipline & physically). It was a really frustrating period for me sitting at home watching my 3 biggest competitors surpass me & land endorsements which would have otherwise gone to me. My strength decreased rapidly coz I could not workout & my BF% shot up from the usual 12 to my current 18 bcz I was gorging on anything & everything in my frustration. Finally, after being declared fit by our doctor 43days back, I had started working out like a madman, 2ce a day, with great intensity but I can feel that my strength & endurance is nowhere close to the peak. With an all-important competition approaching in December, I just cannot afford to take it easy. Hence I have decided to go for my 1st ever cycle, a simple Test E cycle, to give me that extra something (Wanted to add winstrol too but I read of it's damaging effects on your joints, which are all-important to me). Plus taking it now would mean it would wash out of my system by December…

Stats -
Age- 28
Height - 5ft 7in
Weight - 72 kgs (Can’t afford to gain much coz it would mess with my speed & agility)
BF%- 18 (Usually never above 13)
Gender - Male

Proposed Cycle -
Test E - Weeks 1-10 - 500mg/wk (2 pins a week, Monday & Thursday)
HCG - Weeks 1-12 (last pin 3days before starting PCT) - 500iu/wk (2 pins/week, on the same days as Test E)
Arimidex - Weeks 1-12 - 0.25mg EOD

PCT - Nolvadex - Weeks 13-17 - 40/40/20/20/20
Clomid- Weeks 13-16 - 100/100/50/50

Will also take Liv-52, Milk Thistle, TUDCA/NAC and my regulars - Taurine & Fish Oil during cycle

Questions -

1) I am somewhat confused on the PCT. I had read about this combination of Nolva+Clomid in most places during my research but I recently read an article named “The Perfect PCT” which mentions a host of other products to take in the 2 weeks preceding & during PCT - HCGenerate + Ostarine + Cardarine + Liver Supplement… What are your views on this?? Are so many things really necessary??

2) What are the parameters in a blood test that I have to get examined on, before, during & after the cycle? Lipid Profile, Liver Function Test, Kidney Function Test, Free Test etc are some of them, I guess. What are the others that I need to get tested on??

3) Where would you recommend injecting the HCG? While some articles recommend intramuscular injections in the outer quads, others suggest subcutaneous, in the belly area (4-5 inches away from the naval area)…

Main Goal Behind This Cycle ->
My main aim behind this cycle is rapid increase in strength, endurance & muscle mass (which I have largely lost during prolonged period of bed-rest) in 10 weeks. I want to gain considerable muscle mass (some of it will be water) & then cut down (after cycle) to 77-78 kgs of pure muscle with 12% bf & great strength by September.

All these would be so easy if I could just talk to our coach about it but it is strictly no-no & I am on my own in this. Hence relying a lot on you veterans for your insight & advice…

Hello and welcome,

1) No your PCT is fine. HCG mimics LH and keeps testicles functional. The SERMs signal the brain to produce LH and restore HPTA function again. SARMs are suppressive and counteract this process. The ones trying to sell the SARMs are too dumb to even realize this lol.

2) Check the TRT subforum. Don't forget sensitive E2 not the regular E2 so you can adjust your AI if needed.

3) Thighs, lower abdominals, just make sure there is some fat and don't inject sideways as it may not go through the epidermis with a tiny slin pin

Having said that if you only want to get back to where you were and are confident that level is enough for your goals, you can probably do it naturally due to muscle memory. Otherwise a single test only cycle won't kill you. Good luck!

**Last_Ride** · 04-04-2018, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dannyboy51577

Ok, couple things. Are you going to be required to take drug test for ped's? If so, you will want to be very careful, go with shortest esters possible to get it out of your system quickest, amd quickest pct, as pct meds can alter drug tests as well.

Also understand, if this is sonething you are going to do- steroids will not have an immediate positive impact on ligaments and tendons- so even though your strength may increase and muscles may handle more, your tendons will be vulnerable during this time-you will want to push harder but they may not handle it.

Not sure what sport, but if you are not looking for any sort of interference with joints, i would suggest avoiding the winstrol for now- it will dry you out, you will not get massive strength gains from it anyway, and will suffer dryness in joints. If you decide you are set on adding something- a simple 50mg dbol for the first 4 wks is fine, being that its only a 10 wk cycle. Dbol will give you what you are looking dor as far as strength, some water, and improved muscle gains, better fit than winny.

Hcg - once reconstituted- you can use anninsulin syringe- grab a little fat around the belly anywhere, blast it there. Dosage depends on how full and happy your boys (nuts) are. I do 250iu twice a wk and have no prob. If they seem a little tight or little shrunk, you can do 3 times per wk.

Biggest thing to remember is every person is unique-unique reactions, gains, etc. One rule doesnt apply to all. Again, im.not sure of your sport or drug testing requirements- but i would STRONGLY suggest finding out those rules before starting to out stuff into your body, make sure you can get it in and out before having an issue. Being your next competition is december, you have plenty of time for one basic cycle, pct, etc to get you back on track and clear out with plenty of time before competing

Thank u so much for ur reply. Can't tell you enough how much I appreciate it.

My National camp starts in December & the 5 member squad for the next tournament is picked in January. So January-end is the next time I will be drug tested. So, I think I am pretty safe on that front. Not really concerned about the tests. Would anyways never set foot in camp without getting tested in one of our UG labs to see if all parameters are as per NADA requirement..

Just tell me 1 last thing. I have also been pondering about the Dbol. But this being my first cycle ever, don't wanna start with 2 compounds so that if any sides occur, I know where to look. So what do you say to this idea --> I start the cycle, if everything goes well for the 1st 5 weeks, then I start the Dbol for the last 5 wks along with the Test..... Will this work??

**Last_Ride** · 04-04-2018, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

December is 8 months (32wks) away so you have time. My recommendation would be to run two short cycles instead of one long one. An 8 week Test Prop cycle, rest, followed by 4 weeks of PCT is 13 weeks. Rest for 13 weeks comes to 26 weeks. Then run an Anavar only cycle for 3 weeks and the Anavar will clear your system in 3 weeks. Test Prop detection time is 8 weeks and Anavar is 3 weeks.

Thank u so much for ur reply. Really really appreciate it.
I had read about the advantage of short esters for athletes but was not particularly inclined towards Test Propionate coz I have been told that it is worth noting the fast acting propionate variation tends to be a sorer injection, and therefore undesirable for beginners who have never injected before.

You, being a pro, please tell me this one last thing. Being my 1st cycle, I was worried about the sides. But if all goes smoothly for the 1st 5wks, I was thinking of supplementing the test with 50mg of dbol for the final 5wks (since I do intense exercises along with practice sessions, I won't retain as much water). Does this work or do u have to take the dbol during the 1st 5 weeks only??

**ScotchGuard02** · 04-05-2018, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Last_Ride

Thank u so much for ur reply. Really really appreciate it.
I had read about the advantage of short esters for athletes but was not particularly inclined towards Test Propionate coz I have been told that it is worth noting the fast acting propionate variation tends to be a sorer injection, and therefore undesirable for beginners who have never injected before.

You, being a pro, please tell me this one last thing. Being my 1st cycle, I was worried about the sides. But if all goes smoothly for the 1st 5wks, I was thinking of supplementing the test with 50mg of dbol for the final 5wks (since I do intense exercises along with practice sessions, I won't retain as much water). Does this work or do u have to take the dbol during the 1st 5 weeks only??

Dbol holds a TON of water. Guys run the dbol at the start of the cycle and lose the water throughout the cycle. If you take dbol at the end of your cycle you'll look the puffy look at the end of the cycle and lose a log of gains during PCT.