Redness, hot to touch, swelling PIP

**GregJones** · 08-18-2019, 12:46 AM

Hey guys,

3 weeks ago exactly i started my first cycle ever. I'm 27 and wanted to try a low dose (250mg/week). I use 25g needles and same needle to draw and shoot. Using an amp. I've been shooting 0.5ml twice a week. I know this is super low nad nothing crazy but I wanted to get an idea of how it felt before going on 400-500mg/week on my second cycle.

My first 5 shots were fine. Shot number 6 however everything went well (monday, tuesday, wednesday), thursday I felt a lump in my glute (I've been alternating glutes), and i also felt lots of swelling and Heat from the spot. Went to the ER, they told me not to shoot anymore and gave me antibiotics. I shot 2 days later in my shoulder. Literally 36h later roughly I go to change to go to the gym and i feel my right shoulder hurts, could barely lift it. It was also Red, Hot, and swollen. Surprise surprise. This is literally after 48h of antibiotics.. I go back to the ER they give me IV antibiotics. The Gear doesn't have any floating debris in it an i'm so confused. If it was dirty gear, wouldn't I react like this immediately after the first shot? I've been getting better pumps, slightly more appetite and slightly bigger.

Thinking of throwing this amp out but my next shot is in 1 day and i'm not sure what to do here.. Do I stop and go PCT now and then try to make sure I have clean gear for my next cycle?

Thank you for all your help guys!

**Obs** · 08-18-2019, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by GregJones

Hey guys,

3 weeks ago exactly i started my first cycle ever. I'm 27 and wanted to try a low dose (250mg/week). I use 25g needles and same needle to draw and shoot. Using an amp. I've been shooting 0.5ml twice a week. I know this is super low nad nothing crazy but I wanted to get an idea of how it felt before going on 400-500mg/week on my second cycle.

My first 5 shots were fine. Shot number 6 however everything went well (monday, tuesday, wednesday), thursday I felt a lump in my glute (I've been alternating glutes), and i also felt lots of swelling and Heat from the spot. Went to the ER, they told me not to shoot anymore and gave me antibiotics. I shot 2 days later in my shoulder. Literally 36h later roughly I go to change to go to the gym and i feel my right shoulder hurts, could barely lift it. It was also Red, Hot, and swollen. Surprise surprise. This is literally after 48h of antibiotics.. I go back to the ER they give me IV antibiotics. The Gear doesn't have any floating debris in it an i'm so confused. If it was dirty gear, wouldn't I react like this immediately after the first shot? I've been getting better pumps, slightly more appetite and slightly bigger.

Thinking of throwing this amp out but my next shot is in 1 day and i'm not sure what to do here.. Do I stop and go PCT now and then try to make sure I have clean gear for my next cycle?

Thank you for all your help guys!

I really cant say but infection usually comes with a low fever and takes a bit.
Tbh this sounds like post injection pain and could be an irritation due to the carrier oil or the ester.

What are you shooting exactly?

**GregJones** · 08-18-2019, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Obs

I really cant say but infection usually comes with a low fever and takes a bit.
Tbh this sounds like post injection pain and could be an irritation due to the carrier oil or the ester.

What are you shooting exactly?

Doing 0.5ml Monday and Friday of this Test Cyp 250mg/ml from Androgen Labs in Canada. Its clearly an UGL and the bottle is completely clear nothing in the solution. My source says that he's been on the same bottle and someone else was having a bit of an issue but went away after 3 months.. but if i'm going to be having swollen fluid build up red raised skin thats itchy and painful for 3 months thats kinda f*cked tbh. Is that virgin muscle? like thats just whack to me..

**GregJones** · 08-18-2019, 06:30 AM

Wondering too if it could be the BA alcohol I'm using to swab? I showered last time and then immediately after the shower I shot in my shoulder and that was with the BA alcohol swab. I dont understand why i'm Reacting NOW after having done 5 successful shots.. my friend said my body could be rejecting the test. But how does that even make sense if it wasn't until shot #6 that my body rejects the test..?

**The God Himself** · 08-18-2019, 07:51 AM

Are you using alcohol swabs before the injection? Always apply the swab in the same direction, otherwise you are bringing back the bacteria back to the same spot.
I have only had infection when I did one into my biceps.
Switching to subq injections with a slin pin can also help.

**GregJones** · 08-18-2019, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by The God Himself

Are you using alcohol swabs before the injection? Always apply the swab in the same direction, otherwise you are bringing back the bacteria back to the same spot.
I have only had infection when I did one into my biceps.
Switching to subq injections with a slin pin can also help.

I’m usually doing a clockwise direction. And neee tried subcutaneous. Thought that test was supposed to go into the muscle?

**GregJones** · 08-18-2019, 11:28 PM

UPDATE:

Went back to Hospital for Follow up and the redness has spread. I’m carrying a needle in my arm for a week doing daily antibiotics treatment at the hospital.

**Obs** · 08-18-2019, 11:41 PM

What amps are you using? Brand?

**GregJones** · 08-19-2019, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Obs

What amps are you using? Brand?

Androgen labs vial. I live in Canada.

**Leres** · 08-19-2019, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by GregJones

Androgen labs vial. I live in Canada.

Toss it in the bin. Its more than likely led to your infection.

**Test Monsterone** · 08-19-2019, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by GregJones

I’m usually doing a clockwise direction. And neee tried subcutaneous. Thought that test was supposed to go into the muscle?

Nah I do sub q unless I’m blasting. Anything under .4 and I’m pretty good. Some UGLs are better than others. My latest batch seems to give me little minimally painful lumps in my belly from sub q. Other stuff I feel nothing from. Sub q is supposed to release slower to give you more steady blood levels, so they say.

**GregJones** · 08-19-2019, 06:28 PM

Tossing it for sure. Got another doctor opinion today during my IV treatment. He said he thinks it’s almost like an allergic reaction to from my body to the injection. He said he believes the first 2 weeks of shots my body probably was building up antibodies and during the third week in it started rejecting the shots and sending a score of antibodies to the area.

Obviously we have a few different opinions at this point. I’m not sure what to believe. Obviously if my body’s reacting like this it isn’t accepting it and I’m going to have to stop the shots.

My MAIN question now is: if I were to get better quality gear, which I mean how would I even know lol. But IF I did after a few months, would my body react this way again? How does one know? I’ve asked friends and read on this forum and a lot of people say this is “virgin muscle” and to push through it until your body fully accepts it. But I mean how am I supposed to know my body will accept this?

This same batch was used by my friend an experienced user and his friend who also is trying for the first time like me. His friend was also experiencing this reaction but pushed through for three months and then his “body accepted it”. Still confused by this concept. Like are you supposed to keep shooting even though you’re reacting like this until your body’s like “oh shit that’s my buddy test cyp coming in to play!”

Thanks for the responses and help everyone.

**Obs** · 08-19-2019, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by GregJones

Tossing it for sure. Got another doctor opinion today during my IV treatment. He said he thinks it’s almost like an allergic reaction to from my body to the injection. He said he believes the first 2 weeks of shots my body probably was building up antibodies and during the third week in it started rejecting the shots and sending a score of antibodies to the area.

Obviously we have a few different opinions at this point. I’m not sure what to believe. Obviously if my body’s reacting like this it isn’t accepting it and I’m going to have to stop the shots.

My MAIN question now is: if I were to get better quality gear, which I mean how would I even know lol. But IF I did after a few months, would my body react this way again? How does one know? I’ve asked friends and read on this forum and a lot of people say this is “virgin muscle” and to push through it until your body fully accepts it. But I mean how am I supposed to know my body will accept this?

This same batch was used by my friend an experienced user and his friend who also is trying for the first time like me. His friend was also experiencing this reaction but pushed through for three months and then his “body accepted it”. Still confused by this concept. Like are you supposed to keep shooting even though you’re reacting like this until your body’s like “oh shit that’s my buddy test cyp coming in to play!”

Thanks for the responses and help everyone.

#1 doctors will call any redness or swelling after an injection, an infection. ***MOST DOCTORS***

#2 unless they did a culture test they have no idea if you are infected.

#3 All infections should come with a bacteria name.

#4 What they did was give you a broad spectrum antibiotic for a broad range of bacteria. If they changed antibiotics it was because the realized the broad spectrum wasn't doing the job. So rather than do it right the first time they ran you in a circle until they learned more; which is backwards.

#5 I would wager this is not an infection but rather an immune response to an irrutation from a carrier oil, ester, or unproperly dissolved raws. All of which a doctor and especially a GP, will have no clue about.

I have had immune response cause my calf to lock up for over a month.

***#4 dont get me wrong... They prescribe antibiotics without knowing if you have an infection, only at the suspicion. Antibiotics will probably do nothing and probably did nothing other than stall time while this runs its course.

About 20 times I have had PIP redness and swelling that immobilized muscle for weeks with "heat to the touch".

Only once did I get an abcess (which believe me when you get one you will know) and it was a sterile abcess due to immune response to a water based suspension.

An abcess will itch like a mother fkin fker. You will find it easy to stab with a giant needle or lance because it will be so itchy you want to burn your skin off.

An infection is a full body experience not a site specific thing.

**Obs** · 08-19-2019, 08:27 PM

Heres some old photos to click on.
Attachment 177083
Attachment 177084

This is my bicep two or so years ago.
Its not an abcess.
Its not an infection.
Its not a sterile abcess.

This is swelling due to, too much of an unrecognized foreign substance in my body.
It hurt so bad I could not bend my arm.
Swelled probably three inches in circumference.

I could grab my bicep and squeeze it for 3 seconds and leave 1/4" deep indentations where my fingers were.

Just swelling from severe PIP.

Yes it was very hot to the touch.

**Obs** · 08-19-2019, 08:39 PM

How to tell if its an infection or not.

Here is a special thread on this subject by a special guy.
Notice the steps your doctors did not follow?

They just took the classic signs of post injection pain and said... "INFECTION!"

Then they hit you with a broad range antibody.
It's what they do because 99% are morons just like everyone that ever got your order wrong at Wendy's.

If I am wrong... Sorry.
If I am right I would like the opportunity to kick your doctor in the ass until his nose bleeds.
I hate a mfer that sucks at what he does for a living.

You should have him read this thread.

**GregJones** · 08-19-2019, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Obs

Heres some old photos to click on.
Attachment 177083
Attachment 177084

This is my bicep two or so years ago.
Its not an abcess.
Its not an infection.
Its not a sterile abcess.

This is swelling due to, too much of an unrecognized foreign substance in my body.
It hurt so bad I could not bend my arm.
Swelled probably three inches in circumference.

I could grab my bicep and squeeze it for 3 seconds and leave 1/4" deep indentations where my fingers were.

Just swelling from severe PIP.

Yes it was very hot to the touch.

Thats a little worst than what mine looked like.. mine was spread more evenly but all down from my delt to my biceps/triceps..

Having read that thread you posted, my question now is, if there is this PIP from having virgin muscle, and injecting foreign substance into your body, lets say even heated etc, with all precautions.. if this PIP happens, do you simply heat it and deal with the pain via NSAIDS and continue lifting until it goes away? You just keep shooting different spots obviously that aren't red like this and keep working out? If other spots do react like this (glute for me first, then delt), what do you do if all your sites become like this? Stop all together and hope for a different batch that doesn't do this? Do the filter method and heat and just hope for the best? Keep working out?

**Obs** · 08-20-2019, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by GregJones

Thats a little worst than what mine looked like.. mine was spread more evenly but all down from my delt to my biceps/triceps..

Having read that thread you posted, my question now is, if there is this PIP from having virgin muscle, and injecting foreign substance into your body, lets say even heated etc, with all precautions.. if this PIP happens, do you simply heat it and deal with the pain via NSAIDS and continue lifting until it goes away? You just keep shooting different spots obviously that aren't red like this and keep working out? If other spots do react like this (glute for me first, then delt), what do you do if all your sites become like this? Stop all together and hope for a different batch that doesn't do this? Do the filter method and heat and just hope for the best? Keep working out?

I wpuld try a different brand.
A small shot of cyp shouldnt cause that kind of irritation. I would say you are too sensitive to something in that compound.
It may never stop with that carrier oil used by that lab or they may have brewed it improperly.

I have had some severe pip causing gear I shot in small amounts in different areas.
I have never had cyp cause that ki d of reaction though but we all react differently.

**GregJones** · 08-20-2019, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Obs

I wpuld try a different brand.
A small shot of cyp shouldnt cause that kind of irritation. I would say you are too sensitive to something in that compound.
It may never stop with that carrier oil used by that lab or they may have brewed it improperly.

I have had some severe pip causing gear I shot in small amounts in different areas.
I have never had cyp cause that ki d of reaction though but we all react differently.

Ya for now i'm just going to take a break from this, and toss this test. The carrier oil is grapeseed. Regardless I won't be using this lab again and I will be waiting a month or so until I even try any again. I'm just wondering how much HCG i'm gonna need at this point after only 6 shots of test cyp 250/week. Regardless I won't be using this product again and will definitely follow the warming etc methods previously discussed..

**Obs** · 08-20-2019, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by GregJones

Ya for now i'm just going to take a break from this, and toss this test. The carrier oil is grapeseed. Regardless I won't be using this lab again and I will be waiting a month or so until I even try any again. I'm just wondering how much HCG i'm gonna need at this point after only 6 shots of test cyp 250/week. Regardless I won't be using this product again and will definitely follow the warming etc methods previously discussed..

I wouldn't bother with the hcg . It should have been ran at 250iu x2 per week during the injections and leading up to the start of pct.
After only 6 injections you should bounce back fine with pct only.

Good luck to you sorry about the bad luck.

**GregJones** · 08-20-2019, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Obs

I wouldn't bother with the hcg . It should have been ran at 250iu x2 per week during the injections and leading up to the start of pct.
After only 6 injections you should bounce back fine with pct only.

Good luck to you sorry about the bad luck.

Fair enough. I'm going to get the HCG anyways as its pharm grade and may as well have it for the next time. Will start PCT as soon as I get my hands on it.

**GregJones** · 08-24-2019, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Obs

I wouldn't bother with the hcg . It should have been ran at 250iu x2 per week during the injections and leading up to the start of pct.
After only 6 injections you should bounce back fine with pct only.

Good luck to you sorry about the bad luck.

Obs, so I’ve decided that SINCE I’ve never heated this vial up before a shot MAYBE it is the right thing which will make this stuff work with my body.. I could be totally wrong here but It’s been 1 week since my last shot and I feel like I gave up on my first cycle because I shot like a noob.. i guess I’m just giving a heads up that im HOPING third times a charm

**Obs** · 08-24-2019, 07:55 AM

Originally Posted by GregJones

Obs, so I’ve decided that SINCE I’ve never heated this vial up before a shot MAYBE it is the right thing which will make this stuff work with my body.. I could be totally wrong here but It’s been 1 week since my last shot and I feel like I gave up on my first cycle because I shot like a noob.. i guess I’m just giving a heads up that im HOPING third times a charm

Well you dont quit.
Unless ot is foggy or has crystals in it heTing it wont change much.

**GregJones** · 08-24-2019, 09:19 AM

Originally Posted by Obs

Well you dont quit.
Unless ot is foggy or has crystals in it heTing it wont change much.

It’s completely clear. Nothing visible at all in it either.

**Obs** · 08-24-2019, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by GregJones

It’s completely clear. Nothing visible at all in it either.

Heating it wont help then.
You are just having a reaction to something in it.
If you shoot it only shoot a small amount in multiple areas.

**GregJones** · 08-24-2019, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Obs

Heating it wont help then.
You are just having a reaction to something in it.
If you shoot it only shoot a small amount in multiple areas.

Smart man.. I'm shooting 0.5mL of it.. so maybe I should split that into 3 different shots or 2 different 0.25mL shots? I'm thinking one in each cheek lol

**Obs** · 08-24-2019, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by GregJones

Smart man.. I'm shooting 0.5mL of it.. so maybe I should split that into 3 different shots or 2 different 0.25mL shots? I'm thinking one in each cheek lol

I had some really severe pip gear i could not shoot at any more than .2 ml.
I would try .10 in a few spots. It sucks pinning but its better than being immobile until you get a different brand of gear.

**GregJones** · 08-24-2019, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Obs

I had some really severe pip gear i could not shoot at any more than .2 ml.
I would try .10 in a few spots. It sucks pinning but its better than being immobile until you get a different brand of gear.

Well I ended up doing 0.25 in my right glute, and 0.25 in my left rectus femoris. Warmed it up too before and massaged the area and did some basic dynamic stretching of the muscles too. Here's hoping!

**DeeCee112** · 08-24-2019, 03:26 PM

It took me about a month or more until an injection didn't result in the area becoming utterly useless. My body just rejected the foreign substance for awhile, may be what your experiencing. I switched vials, warmed the oil and the site, had my gf inject with perfect technique nothing worked until it just got easier. Took about 3 injections per site for the site to take it without major pip.

**GregJones** · 08-26-2019, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by DeeCee112

It took me about a month or more until an injection didn't result in the area becoming utterly useless. My body just rejected the foreign substance for awhile, may be what your experiencing. I switched vials, warmed the oil and the site, had my gf inject with perfect technique nothing worked until it just got easier. Took about 3 injections per site for the site to take it without major pip.

Well I mean I just split my shot into 2 spots instead of all in one area and warmed up the vial. It seems like it has worked.

**Dgs59** · 08-27-2019, 07:45 AM

One thing I noticed other than heating test a bit (I use hair dryer lol) I must let the alcohol swab area dry off before injection.

**GregJones** · 08-27-2019, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Dgs59

One thing I noticed other than heating test a bit (I use hair dryer lol) I must let the alcohol swab area dry off before injection.

Yes I noticed this helps a lot too! I also have tried the Z track method on my thigh injections and also try to do some dynamic stretching 30mins-1hour post injection