AI or not?

[liv2thafullest]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

[Getsomehate]

Only way to know is try and see , i am on 750mg test/week as base as well and i barely used it at 0.25mg (adex).

[charger69]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

I do not use an AI. Everyone is different though.
I have used 1.5g without an AI.
I would say just watch your water retention however I think you will be fine.


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[The Deadlifting Dog]

I personally don't use AI anymore but the most test I take is 600mg/week.

It depends on your goals....
You will hold more water without the AI... that can be a good thing.
But getting bloated and gyno can be a bad thing.

If this is your first run I would normally just recommend 500mg and no AI and see how it goes.
You can have AI on hand if needed.

FYI: You are taking 280mg of test from Androgel but aren't actually absorbing 280mg.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Have never needed one and have never used one, up to 800 mgs a week. We are all different though. I’d have it on hand just in case but would start without it on board

[liv2thafullest]

So Andro gel is no good then? Is there a better TRT I should ask my doctor about? I was on the patches and those were way worse even!

[liv2thafullest]

Ok so I'm going yo start without it then. I am not sensitive to gyno at all, have never even had any issues with it. I am lean by nature and never had any issues with anything related to high estrogen.

I did buy some, at a higher price than I would have liked, I guess ill keep it on hand for now.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

So Andro gel is no good then? Is there a better TRT I should ask my doctor about? I was on the patches and those were way worse even!

I am not saying it is no good.
I am saying that you don't absorb all 280mgs so it isn't like you will be on 500+280=780mgs per week. (You are probably closer to 500+100=600mgs per week.)

I started out on Axiron. Worked great for me.
Transdermals more closely match your body's natural testosterone daily cycle.

However, they are way more expensive than injections.

[liv2thafullest]

I started out on the patch, but I work construction and it would always fall off when I sweat.
If you're saying I am only absorbing 100mg out of 280mg then to me thats no good. Thats not even 50%, that's worse than no good that's terrible.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ok so I'm going yo start without it then. I am not sensitive to gyno at all, have never even had any issues with it. I am lean by nature and never had any issues with anything related to high estrogen.

I did buy some, at a higher price than I would have liked, I guess ill keep it on hand for now.

If it’s TRT and physician prescribed, it’s hard to beat at home injections with a scripted 10 ML bottle (if you don’t have an aversion to needles).

I’d also advise you take at look at the TRT section on the forum as well.

I’m 45 and have been on TRT for 5 years, doing injections at home is a breeze coupled with twice yearly labs.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Just a heads up too, seeing that you’re new to the boards (welcome by the way).

Age, goals, test/cycle history. How long have you been on TRT, are you “blasting” now?

That type of background info makes it easier for guys to respond by having a little more info based around that.

[liv2thafullest]

Ok thanks for the heads up and the welcome.

40 yrs old. 6'4 238lbs, ~15% bf. Experienced lifter all my life, NASM cert Fitness and Nutrition specialist, Personal trainer, etc.

Been on TRT for 6 months now, and goals are to lose 3-5% bf while keeping my muscle and strength. Maybe even gain some lean mass.

Current cycle I will be starting: 14 weeks. Test E 500mg/week, week 1-12. Anavar 40mg/ED week 6-14. I heard it's good to run the Var 2 weeks past stopping of the test.

Should I taper down the test at the end of my cycle, like 300mg, 200mg, 100mg for the last 3 weeks, or is that not necesary? Also im assuming since I'm on TRT no need for PCT?

Thank you

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ok thanks for the heads up and the welcome.

40 yrs old. 6'4 238lbs, ~15% bf. Experienced lifter all my life, NASM cert Fitness and Nutrition specialist, Personal trainer, etc.

Been on TRT for 6 months now, and goals are to lose 3-5% bf while keeping my muscle and strength. Maybe even gain some lean mass.

Current cycle I will be starting: 14 weeks. Test E 500mg/week, week 1-12. Anavar 40mg/ED week 6-14. I heard it's good to run the Var 2 weeks past stopping of the test.

Should I taper down the test at the end of my cycle, like 300mg, 200mg, 100mg for the last 3 weeks, or is that not necesary? Also im assuming since I'm on TRT no need for PCT?

Thank you

Well done...

No need for PCT or to taper, simply move back to your TRT dosage after your cycle ends. Make sure you don’t have any blood work planned with your doc for a while to be safe. I would talk to him/her about switching from a gel to pins...you can thank me later. A 10 ML bottle of Pfizer test can last you 3 months (dose dependent of course) for less that 65$.

I’m on 200 mgs per week and that keeps my total test around 1100, which is where I feel great. Free test usually sits around 24. Not sure what your dose equivalent would be with the gel, but if you’re open to switching, before you blast would be the time.

As far as the var, I wouldn’t worry about that 2 week window as you won’t need to worry about suppression since you’re not going to PCT and can resume your normal TRT dose after blasting.

Let me know if I missed anything and I’m sure others will jump in. That’s an easy enough cycle and I’m sure with the right diet, you’ll easily smash your goals.

I’d leave the AI out for now unless you’re holding water, get moon faces or start getting estrogen sides. No need to suppress it as it’s instrumental in growth.

Good luck brother and happy you’re here!

[Test Monsterone]

I feel I need to take an AI or I get the moon face, even on just 400 mg/week. I'm taking .25 mg with every injection, so every third day. Before I started the AI, my hands were puffy and my face was puffy, and I Felt like crap. I'm not shredded by any means, so my body fat probably isn't helping. (more fat, more conversion to estrogen).

[SampsonandDelilah]

So hard to paint an AI with a broad brush. Estrogen sides are easy enough to detect I feel at least, of course blood work along the way helps, but not everyone can do it

[liv2thafullest]

Thanks, great response! Answered all my questions thoroughly. I wish I hadn't spent the money on the ai, it wasn't cheap lol, but I guess its better to be safe than sorry, I have a feeling im not even going to need it.

Yeah I get bloods 2x year for my doc, just had last one in May, so next one not due for awhile, but thanks for the heads up. Everything is primed to go, super psyched. Gyms are finally open, thank God.

Again, thanks for the help and the welcoming. Looking forward to sticking around here for awhile.

One last question; I have some SARMS I ordered (Ostarine and Testolone), I've had them for awhile and was planning on using them when gyms re opened, but I decided to just go with gear. Would it be beneficial in any way to run them along with the gear, or maybe after the gear just to help maintain gains?

After reading more about SARMS I dont think they really do much, but I guess if they can help in any way I can use that, already spent the $ on them (unfortunately).

Thanks again

[SampsonandDelilah]

Thanks, great response! Answered all my questions thoroughly. I wish I hadn't spent the money on the ai, it wasn't cheap lol, but I guess its better to be safe than sorry, I have a feeling im not even going to need it.

Yeah I get bloods 2x year for my doc, just had last one in May, so next one not due for awhile, but thanks for the heads up. Everything is primed to go, super psyched. Gyms are finally open, thank God.

Again, thanks for the help and the welcoming. Looking forward to sticking around here for awhile.

One last question; I have some SARMS I ordered (Ostarine and Testolone), I've had them for awhile and was planning on using them when gyms re opened, but I decided to just go with gear. Would it be beneficial in any way to run them along with the gear, or maybe after the gear just to help maintain gains?

After reading more about SARMS I dont think they really do much, but I guess if they can help in any way I can use that, already spent the $ on them (unfortunately).

Thanks again

Happy you’re here...this place is great and will benefit from members like you.

I’m far from the SARMS expert and stick mostly to AAS outside of some MK-677.

This section should help and I’m sure others will chime in as well. Good luck, post updates on your goals!


https://forums.steroid.com/sarms-sel...rmation-forum/

[The Deadlifting Dog]

As far as SARMS go...
I've never done them but would rather just do the real deal.

As far as adding them in now... Being this is your first cycle, I don't recommend it.

I'd prefer you see how your body handles just the test.
Keep it simple.
If you run into problems you know it is from the test.

[liv2thafullest]

Pinning

I guees I had some other questions that didn't first dawn on me lol.

About pinning, I know enanthate is a long Ester, however is once/week too little? Should I split it into 2x week, maybe Thursday and Monday or something like that? 300mg Thursday, 200mg Monday.

Also about the pins themselves, I am buying from a regular pharmacy, is 22 gauge 1.5" ok for drawing and also injecting?

Thanks

[charger69]

Pinning

I guees I had some other questions that didn't first dawn on me lol.

About pinning, I know enanthate is a long Ester, however is once/week too little? Should I split it into 2x week, maybe Thursday and Monday or something like that? 300mg Thursday, 200mg Monday.

Also about the pins themselves, I am buying from a regular pharmacy, is 22 gauge 1.5" ok for drawing and also injecting?

Thanks

If you like to pin with a harpoon. LOL
I draw with 23 and pin with 25 when I cruise.
When I’m on cycle, I use slin pins and pin daily. I like to keep my serum levels as stable as possible.


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[charger69]

MK677 and SR9009 are my sarna of choice.


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[SampsonandDelilah]

Pinning

I guees I had some other questions that didn't first dawn on me lol.

About pinning, I know enanthate is a long Ester, however is once/week too little? Should I split it into 2x week, maybe Thursday and Monday or something like that? 300mg Thursday, 200mg Monday.

Also about the pins themselves, I am buying from a regular pharmacy, is 22 gauge 1.5" ok for drawing and also injecting?

Thanks

You can do either/or as far as a schedule...I’ve seen data to support both. I like to split the week.

Ex) 250 Sunday and 250 Thursday. At 200 mgs per ML you won’t get it perfect but it’ll be fine. With enth or cyp 1/2 life you can also go once a week too, I’ve personally noticed just feeling a little better with less valleys bi weekly.

22G 1.5” is fine.

However, I prefer to draw with a 1” 20G and shoot with a 1.5 or 1” 25G.

The volume you’re doing is easily done with a 25 G.

Regardless of which size you choose, make sure to rotate needles. I.E. - one to draw and one to shoot. Use an alcohol swab on your vial and the area you’re stabbing. I always do mine after a shower. No point in being sweaty and dirty (I’m sure you know that, but would be remiss if I didn’t mention it, lol).

[SampsonandDelilah]

If you like to pin with a harpoon. LOL
I draw with 23 and pin with 25 when I cruise.
When I’m on cycle, I use slin pins and pin daily. I like to keep my serum levels as stable as possible.


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This dude is also a serious veteran!! Lol.

Charger, let this man walk before you make him run! Lol

Stay off the slin pins for now brother, Charger is a battle hardened competitor

[liv2thafullest]

Whats the reason for using different pins to draw and inject? I wont be able to switch the needle, I am just going to buy regular pins from a pharmacy, not those fancy ones where the needle screws off, so I need to know whats a good one to buy that I can draw with and inject with.

[Ashop]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

I personally would need an AI or SERM on that amount of testosterone .

[charger69]

Switching pins is at least a comfort thing. The needle gets blunted enough just piercing the stopper to be a PITA if you try to use the same needle to stick yourself. There might be other issues, I don't know for sure on that.

I have used the same needle to draw and pin (subq) but I won't even do subq like that anymore. Fresh needles are awesome.

I used to use the same pin. I just don’t have the patience with filling through a 25g. I pin so much that the smaller the pin, the better. Less scar tissue.
I was using 5 slin pins per day during a heavy cycle .


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[liv2thafullest]

Ok thanks.

Well im at the pharmacy now, any tips on what to buy for pinning? Does a regular Walgreens sell the syringes where you can screw/unscrew the needle on and off? If not, what to buy? I was thinking of the 22 gauge 1.5", like I posted earlier, that seems like it would be fat enough to draw without an issue but still skinny enough not to kill me with ejecting into my ass.

[SampsonandDelilah]

They do. Ask for the luer locks...They’ll
Probably offer you different sizes. Switching to a new pin each time is common

You will be just fine if you’re sticking to one pin.


Don’t overthink it. Buy those and see how it feels.

If you wanna switch, go with luer locks in the aforementioned sizes

[SampsonandDelilah]

If you can ask get 20G 1” and 25” 1 or 1.5”

Thank me later

[charger69]

If you can ask get 20G 1” and 25” 1 or 1.5”

Thank me later

I get the 25 1.5, but I think I’m going to change to 1”. I don’t need the 1.5 really.


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[charger69]

Also, I think it’s cheaper online to order them.


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[Capebuffalo]

I used to use the same pin. I just don’t have the patience with filling through a 25g. I pin so much that the smaller the pin, the better. Less scar tissue.
I was using 5 slin pins per day during a heavy cycle .


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I’ve become quite a puss. All I do is back fill slin pins for everything I pin.

[liv2thafullest]

Ended up getting 22 gauge, 1.5". I read that people use those for IM pinning, and it seems like it will be ok. Starting today with my first one, super excited!!

[SampsonandDelilah]

Ended up getting 22 gauge, 1.5". I read that people use those for IM pinning, and it seems like it will be ok. Starting today with my first one, super excited!!

That’ll work just fine bro, that’s all I used for the first 3 years I ever used gear. Tried and true.

It ain’t rocket surgery


Good luck, keep us posted!

[Rainshaker]

I have personally been testing the natural route by using Grape Seed Extract, not to be confused with grapefruit seed extract, as a natural AI and so far I have had zero sides from 30-40mg Dbol ED and 500mg Test e per week. Pretty interesting studies on the stuff, I like the idea of it helping the estrogen without running the risk of crashing it too low.

[Dash Bronson]

If it’s TRT and physician prescribed, it’s hard to beat at home injections with a scripted 10 ML bottle (if you don’t have an aversion to needles).

I’d also advise you take at look at the TRT section on the forum as well.

I’m 45 and have been on TRT for 5 years, doing injections at home is a breeze coupled with twice yearly labs.

Ill be turning 40 soon myself, run two businesses, and stay extremely active so its really important I have my test optimized. Saw the Dr. other day and my total T is 620 and Doc told me that I was very high for my age bracket and not to worry, he didn't understand the importance of free T, which is WAY low in my case... I was like a 4 free or something pretty low.

My point is you have been on TRT 5 years? and I'm considering TRT because I'm getting older... Is the biggest downside having to keep your needle/gear with you when traveling? I mean people with diabetes do that every day with no issue.

Is there any other side effects or negatives you've run into over the last 5 years? I'm weighing all options...

[GearHeaded]

Hey guys

My main question is with the 500mg test E + 280mg test from the Andro gel, thats 780mg/week of test, should I run an ai with this this?

answer is simple .. NO , don't run an AI . whats the point in running 780mg of test if you don't want the estrogen ?

if your estrogen sensitive , then set your cycle up differently . taking a bunch of test then having to run an AI is defeating the purpose.
90% of AAS out there don't even convert to estrogen in the first place.

if you can't run 800mg of test without an AI .. then simply drop the Test dosage down to 300mg and run 600mg of Primo and 40mg of Var a day or something along those lines.

AI's are garbage imo . cause more side effects then the AAS themselves .. just set your cycle up better and more efficiently rather then thinking you have to run an AI .


on a side note - like a lot of guys here have mentioned .. yes you can run boat loads of Test without an AI and the super high levels of estrogen can help you put on size and strength . but that is person dependent (I've ran 2000mg of test with 1000mg of Tren with no AI.. but I never run AI anyhow). But that is person dependent. again if your gyno prone or estrogen sensitive then you simply need to modify the cycle itself , not depend on a shitty AI

[GearHeaded]

Ill be turning 40 soon myself, run two businesses, and stay extremely active so its really important I have my test optimized. Saw the Dr. other day and my total T is 620 and Doc told me that I was very high for my age bracket and not to worry, he didn't understand the importance of free T, which is WAY low in my case... I was like a 4 free or something pretty low.

My point is you have been on TRT 5 years? and I'm considering TRT because I'm getting older... Is the biggest downside having to keep your needle/gear with you when traveling? I mean people with diabetes do that every day with no issue.

Is there any other side effects or negatives you've run into over the last 5 years? I'm weighing all options...

you don't need TRT with natty test levels 600+ .. no doc is likely going to prescribe you TRT with those levels .

I'm in my 40s as well . been on TRT for around 10 years. but before that I built multiple businesses, built an empire, had 5 kids, homeschooled them, hunted, ran 5ks, etc. etc.. but my test levels were only 160 . you don't have to have "optimal" test levels in order to succeed in life and run businesses (your just using that as an excuse for yourself) . how are women able to be successful in business and life if they have barely any Testosterone ?

you don't need TRT , imo . you can raise your free T level though other aspects, even diet changes.
Now if you want to run AAS cycles cause you diet, lift and train hard . then more power to you.


for someone that needs TRT. there really is no downside. there is a minor cost.. and no you don't have to worry about carrying needles with you all the time. a once a week shot is no big deal.


if you get on TRT when you already have naturally decent levels, your simply going to suppress those natural levels and it could be permanent . and thus actually make you and cause you to be hypogonadal .
but again, if you want to "optimize" and take steroids cause you train and want to better yourself . then sure why not . but thats not TRT

[Ashop]

answer is simple .. NO , don't run an AI . whats the point in running 780mg of test if you don't want the estrogen ?

if your estrogen sensitive , then set your cycle up differently . taking a bunch of test then having to run an AI is defeating the purpose.
90% of AAS out there don't even convert to estrogen in the first place.

if you can't run 800mg of test without an AI .. then simply drop the Test dosage down to 300mg and run 600mg of Primo and 40mg of Var a day or something along those lines.

AI's are garbage imo . cause more side effects then the AAS themselves .. just set your cycle up better and more efficiently rather then thinking you have to run an AI .


on a side note - like a lot of guys here have mentioned .. yes you can run boat loads of Test without an AI and the super high levels of estrogen can help you put on size and strength . but that is person dependent (I've ran 2000mg of test with 1000mg of Tren with no AI.. but I never run AI anyhow). But that is person dependent. again if your gyno prone or estrogen sensitive then you simply need to modify the cycle itself , not depend on a shitty AI

I know guys who get gyno on TRT dosages of TEST so an AI or SERM is necessary for some. If you use them right an AI can be used safely with no side effects. I feel as though I always look better when I use a small amount of an AI. People get carried away with the amounts they use and that's where you see problems.

[charger69]

I know guys who get gyno on TRT dosages of TEST so an AI or SERM is necessary for some. If you use them right an AI can be used safely with no side effects. I feel as though I always look better when I use a small amount of an AI. People get carried away with the amounts they use and that's where you see problems.

There isn’t concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic . Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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