290 lbs. and stuck. Suggestions?

[The Butcher]

Allright, I'm not exactly a novice, and I've read all over the place that you should come off, use ancilliaries, etc., but given my height (6'6") and weight (290 lbs. @ ~8% bodyfat) some of my acquaintences have told me it is acceptable to stay "on" Test year round while cycling my other supplements. As a result, I have been on test for most of the past year, taking no more than about 10 weeks off total. (6 weeks from middle of last November until the end of Decemeber, and 4-5 weeks in the Spring) I do vary my doses from 500mg/week on the low end, and up to 1500mg/week on the high end. I add other things (Winni, EQ, Deca , D-bol, A-50) intermittently for periods of about 2 months, with occasional downtimes of 4-6 weeks for the "added" supplements. In other words, my "off" time is 500mg/week of Test for about a month with nothing else, followed by "on" time of 2-3 months with 1000+mg/week of Test and other supplements.

Currently I am taking 2-3 A-50/day (Unimed), 1600mg/week of T-400 from Denkall, 800mg/week of Deca (Denkall as well), and one Arimidex /day. I have been doing this for 5 weeks. I HAVE NOT GAINED ONE POUND!!! I do look better (more vascular, less body fat) so I think I am losing fat while gaining a bit of muscle, but I would think that given my supplements I should be getting something from it. My diet consists of about 6000 to 6500 calories/day made up from anywhere between 600 and 700 grams of protein, 150-220 grams of fat, and 400-550 grams of carbs.

I essentially would like to know what in the hell to do. Should I come off of everything (test included), and use some clomid/hcg ? Stay on the Test, and switch to D-bol instead of the Deca and A-50? If I do come off, how long do you think I should wait before resuming? If I were to go to a Dr., what tests would I need to have him run, and what would they determine? I.e., liver values, test function, etc.

As far as I can tell, my gear is legit. The one I question the most is the A-50, but I even called Unimed to check on a label discrepency and they varified it (address was their old one). But, I am not getting the tell-tale headache everyone complains of while taking these and I take 3 a day!!!!

Anway, sorry for the long post, but I'm very frustrated with this wall that I have hit, and I would greatly appreciate any suggestions you guys might have.

[RoNNy THe BuLL]

Yikes. How's your liver/kidney doing! Not just from the AS but the insane amounts of Protein you eat! WHY, my friend, do you need to get bigger! At 8%BF and 6'6" 290lbs, you should join the WWE. Damn. My advice for you, take a week or two off to give your CNS a well needed break. When you get back into it, you should see not only the scale rising, but also your strength.

Yikes you're a big mofo.

[The Butcher]

Thanks for the compliments. Everyone likes to hear that they are big! I did forget to say that I don't get much sleep. 4-5 hours a night with a nap of about 30 minutes to and hour and a half during the day. I know I need to sleep, but still with the AS I should be getting something. I've been eating like this for quite some time, so I think my body has gotten pretty used to taking in that much protein. I do need to get my liver/kidney values checked, but, like all men, I'm a bit stubborn/lazy when it comes to going to the doctor.

[goldenear]

My guess is that your receptors have become so saturated from the extended period of use that you're just pissing out a bunch of unmetabolized steroidal compounds. I would be extremely interested to see the results from a thorough urinalysis. I think it would be very revealing and substantiate the notion of receptor downregulation.

If you're not seeing results, there's no reason to be "on." I would come off everything slowly, implement a rational ancillary program, and wrap-up with some much needed blood tests.

[djdjdjddjon]

wow, must be nice...all i can really say is be careful bro, i know your eating a ton of calories right now, but the basis for gaining weight/muscle is calories, keep eating bro, best of luck

[majorpecs]

Bro..post a pic..i gotta see this!!

[skii96]

Have you considered GH? Slin? These would be 2 things i would look into about breaking your plateau. MAybe come off with HCG and then clomid, start taking GH and slin as a bridge then after maybe about 8-10wks get back on a different test and throw in some different AS that you havent used b4.

[conan586]

SKii96 said it perfectly- and definatly post a pic, at 6'2" and 250, bodyfat in the mid teens I must say that it is hard to feel your pain- when you do come off remember to not let it get you down, coming off is nessacary and you will go back up later, good luck

[The Butcher]

I've considered GH, it's just a bit expensive. I'm staying away from Insulin b/c Diabetes runs in my family. I like sugar too much to risk not being able to eat it anymore. I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I need to come off of everything for a bit, take ancilliaries, and then get back after it. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to do so, and how long to stay off. We all know it sucks to feel like you are just maintaining, and not actually growing (especially when you have been "on" for awhile with no results!). Thanks again for your suggestions.

[Rickson]

Well I hate to tell you this but the problem is simple. You have reached your genetic potential and maybe a little over. You can expect only a few pounds a year but you are experiencing distinct body changes which only come from year around use which is good. Unfortunately your next step for added muscle mass will probably be large amounts of HGH.

[still growin]

I would be happy as hell I was 6'6", 290 at 8% bf! Nice work bro.

[Mastiff]

I don't think you have to worry about diabetes from using slin. In fact, its the other way around. Doctors are now giving slin to their patients with insulin resistance to protect the beta cells from damage, thus helping prevent the onset of full blown diabetes. If you take insane amounts or go without stopping for months you might, but not by being reasonable.
This is from a thread on cuttingedgemuscle
*********
Dave Palumbo also had a theory of using insulin with GH to "spare" your pancreas due to the GH induced insulin resistance and actually lessening the chance of type 2 diabetes.

Any thoughts?
From Nandi:
Yes. The chronic hyperglycemia of type 2 diabetes is directly toxic to pancreatic beta cells. People aren't sure of the exact mechanism but oxidative stress is thought to be a key factor. High levels of free fatty acids are also beta cell toxic but only in the presence of high glucose levels. So hyperglycemia gets to the beta cells both directly and indirectly. This hyperglycemia eventually leads to beta cell destruction and the need to go on insulin. If you can reduce the hyperglycemia with oral antidiabetic agents and exogenous insulin you can slow the progression of the beta cell destruction. Doctors used to wait until beta cell destruction had progressed before prescribing insulin, but now they are starting to administer it early on in the disease.

******************

This is from insulin.txt in the educational threads:
STATEMENT ABOUT PERMANENT INSULIN DEPENDANCE
This potential side effect has been WAY too hyped by the anti-insulin propogandists. The idea of your own pancreas shutting down insulin production due to exogenous use is silly, and requires massive irresponsible use over extended time periods. Using myself as an example, I've been using insulin for 7 months straight. "WHAT?! Why did my pancreas not explode long ago?" You ask. For a simple reason: responsible use. I think that peoples fear of becoming dependant on insulin stems from minor knowledge about the testosterone
sleeping, and this happens for 80 years without adverse effect.

INSULIN AND ANABOLIC STEROIDS
Of course when everyone thinks of bodybuilding drugs anabolic steroids (AS) are the first things to come to mind, but how do they work with insulin? VERY WELL! AS decrease insulin induced fat accumulation through a number of ways. One is through creatine synthetase, which is an enzyme that goes crazy after workouts trying to store carbohydrates in the muscles (as glycogen, creatine phosphate etc.). For every gram of carbohydrate stored in muscle, roughly four grams of water go along with it (this is how creatine monohydrate achieves such dramatic results). How does this relate to insulin and AS? Well, the "harder" AS (exemplified by oxymethelone) increase creatine synthetase levels dramatically, giving insulin a place to do its' job and store carbohydrates. Okay, this also counts for a combined anabolic effect, but it prevents insulin from converting any "excess" carbohydrate in to fat (which would subsequently be stored)! AS also decrease levels of the main fat storage enzyme that insulin increases (called lipoprotein lipase). A big effect is through glucocorticoid antagonism, which means that AS indirectly increase insulin sensitivity (as well as act anti-catabolically). This allows insulin to bind to its' receptors more easily and accomplish its' job rather, than converting more macronutrients in to fat. Finally, the demand for nutrients by muscles is so high, in an AS enhanced state, that there is rarely any excess of nutrients to actually be stored as fat! A mere 400 mgs of enanthate didn't allow me to accumulate fat whether I was using insulin or not.
From a muscular anabolic perspective, there is a synergistic effect between AS and insulin. This is because they both directly stimulate protein synthesis as well as other mechanisms. One such mechanism involves AS hepatic mediated somatomedin release. Simply put: IGF-1 production in the liver. Again, the more powerful the AS, the more IGF-1 release, with orals having a much greater effect than injectables. Insulin increases the duration of time that IGF-1 is active in the bloodstream, and enhances receptor mediated IGF-1 activity (all through enhancing specific IGF-1 binding proteins). Another great combined effect is that insulin reduces the amount of Sex Hormone Binding Proteins (SHBP) in the blood stream. This allows more AS to be active and do their job of making you grow! Great effects were seen while using 10 units of insulin only three times a week, with AS. For the first few weeks of my next cycle I'm not going off the stuff, and I expect the effects to be scary!


INSULIN AND GROWTH HORMONE
Growth hormone (GH) is one of the most sought after bodybuilding drugs due to its' legendary abilities to strip off body fat and increase muscle mass. The former is accomplished through direct lipolysis (fat release from adipocytes), which GH does to an incredible degree. Muscle mass acquisition is accomplished through: the direct stimulation of protein synthesis, increasing amino acid uptake by muscle cells, and by greatly stimulating IGF-1 synthesis in the liver. It is this last point that is of interest to us because it is the main anabolic mechanism for GH, and it is also where insulin comes in to play. More than half of GHs' anabolic effect is due to IGF-1 production, but unfortunately this is quite often wasted. This is because IGF-1 has an extremely short half life in the bloodstream, so it usually doesn't reach many target tissues (muscles for our interest) to exert maximum anabolic effect. To rectify this situation, insulin can be used to increase the amount of an IGF-1 binding protein (specifically IGF1-BP3) that actually helps IGF-1 to reach the muscles and exert its' extreme anabolism. Insulin also reduces the amount of "bad" IGF1 BP's, (BP's 2 and 4) that would normally interfere with IGF-1 uptake and use by muscle. To say that there is a synergistic effect between insulin and GH doesn't do the combination justice. It makes me shudder to think of the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent on GH, without using it to the maximum anabolic potential. From a fat loss perspective, GH is incredible. It should directly negate the lipogenic effect of insulin, leaving you with one KICK ASS combination.

INSULIN AND HCA
Getting straight to the point, unless you are a moron and are eating fat during insulin use, or you have crappy insulin sensitivity, HCA is the second most effective fat gain inhibitor next to clenbuterol (which is only more effective due to its' ridiculously long half life). Hydroxy Citric Acid (HCA) is the main ingredient in Citrimax, and is a bargain in terms of its': relative effectiveness (when using insulin), cost (cheap, cheap, cheap), and availability. It works by inhibiting an enzyme called ATP citrate ly(s)ase (ACL), which basically converts ingested carbs to fat (which insulin promptly stores). This is normally NOT a big deal since ACL levels are normally low in most humans. However, insulin drastically increases ACL levels (which should make sense based on what you now know about insulin) accounting for most of the, responsible use, fat gain associated with insulin use. This is the most exciting find since the discovery of insulin as an anabolic! Using insulin and not gaining fat while gaining muscle? What a concept! Although I don't like to go into the details of use directly, I believe it is warranted here. 500-750mgs HCA should be taken with or within half an hour after the insulin shot. The usually recommended 250mgs is ineffective in dealing with the drastic increase in ACL levels. The HCA is taken with the shot because both start to work on about one half hour, so the HCA can begin to be effective at the same time that insulin is trying to increase ACL levels. This regimen (only 3X500mgs HCA) prevented fat gain during a day when I used 3 separate insulin shots! To make things even better there is a mild glycogen storage property associated with HCA use. Since ingested carbs cannot be converted to, or stored as, fat, they are generally stored (due to insulin) as glycogen in muscle giving the user a mild but noticeable pump (similar to the first day of creatine use). To end this portion of the list, I give HCA my highest recommendation as the number 1 supplement to use with insulin!

SIMPLE TIPS TO MAXIMIZE ANABOLISM AND MINIMIZE FAT GAIN WITH INSULIN USE
-USE HCA
- use testosterone enhancing compounds to increase hepatic IGF-1 production
- only use insulin first thing in the morning or during/after workouts
- don't consume *any* fat 2 hours before (due to digestion time) or one hour after (due to induced enzyme activity) insulin use
- stretch to locally increase IGF-1 levels
- continually eat protein spread over the 4-5 hour duration of insulin activity

[seniormateus]

Holy sh!t that was a good post Mastiff! I was always curious how all that worked but damn that is scientifit to the T. I had to read over this twice to fully absorb it. I BUMP this to make it an educational post!

[The Butcher]

Wow. I go to the gym for a few hours and look what I come back to. I should have posted on this board months ago. Thank you Mastiff for your information. You are correct, ignorance to all of the inner workings of insulin did make me shy away from it. Nice to hear some evidence that I could probably take it without fucking myself in the long run. As seniormateus said, I need to read it twice to fully grasp all of the info you provided. Your info brings up a couple of new questions for me though:
1) You said to avoid fat consumption 2 hours before and 1 hour after your insulin shot. Not a problem if I take the shot first thing in the AM, or post workout. But, am I correct to assume that what you mean by avoiding fat consumption you mean excessive fat? For instance, if I take my insulin post workout, does the negligble fat in my protein drink (less than 5 grams) present a problem? Should I wait one hour after my shot to consume my protein drink if it is a problem?
2) Relating back to my original question, should I come off of my AS for 6 weeks or so, and then start back with the AS and some growth and insulin? Or, do you think just changing my AS stack, and adding growth and insulin would allow me to continue growing?

I plan on investigating insulin more, and will now consider using it. Rickson had mentioned that I have reached my genetic potential and then some. Truth be told I reached my genetic potential about 30lbs ago, but thanks to AS I have been able to get past it. A few of you had also mentioned that you would be happy with 290 lbs @ 8% BF. 20lbs ago I thought I would be to. But, as you all know, once you get to one goal, you realize that you want more. I suppose that is what keeps us in the gym, huh? Never quite satisfied with what you have. I just look at is a continually trying to improve myself. I'm sure you can all relate. Thanks again Mastiff for your help. Any further suggestions you have would be appreciated.

[Mastiff]

Butcher, you want to consume your protein/carb drink immediately after your workout, and the same with the slin shot. Read what Nandi says about humalog at the end of this post. I don't think I'm qualified to advise you on taking off the 6 weeks or not. I don't believe in receptor down-regulation so I don't think that should be a factor. I haven't had experience with the amount of roids and the length of time you've been on, so I'll let someone else answer that.
Bro, insulin transports protein,glucose and fat. Any fat (not just "excessive fat") will get transported to your fat cells. The period of time to avoid fat is two hours before the shot (because it will still be in your system when the slin hits, so it will be stored) to one hour after the slin is active, not just an hour after the shot. If you used humalog, which gets out of the system in 2 hours, you'd have a 5 hour period you shouldn't eat fat, any fat. If you used Humulin-R which is active for 4 hours, you shouldn't eat fat for 7 hours (2 hours before the shot, 4 hours while its active, and 1 more hour to let the emzyme activity die down). This doesn't mean you can't eat fat, just that if you do eat it it will go straight to your fat cells. If you are doing Growth hormone at the same time, you might get away with it. Growth promotes the release of fat from the fat cells, so the insulin puts it in, and then the growth takes it out. I'd just as soon not find out if that works. You should always use Humalog after a workout, not Humulin-R. Again, from Nandi:
***************
I would add that IMO the BIG advantage to using Humalog over Humulin is the shorter lifetime and time to peak effect of the former. After a workout the main thing is to get amino acids into your muscle cells as quickly as possible. Studies have shown that there is an inverse correlation between the level of new protein synthesis and the time to amino acid supplementation. This means the longer you wait to supplement after a workout the less muscle you build.

It's important to remember that the reason for using insulin is not to get glucose into your muscle, but to force higher than normal levels of amino acids into the cells. Insulin is responsible for amino acid transport just as it is glucose transport. With the shorter onset time of Humalog a person can ingest protein and carbs immediately after training and get high cellular levels of both quickly. This is not saying Humulin is bad; in fact it is excellent. Humalog is just better.

The other big plus is that Humalog is cleared from your system faster. When insulin levels are high, the enzyme that promotes fat storage (lipoprotein lipase) is elevated, while the enzyme that promotes fat burning (hormone sensitive lipase) is reduced. This means that with a long acting insulin you are burning less fat during the time between meals. With Humalog, you force amino acids into muscle quickly post-workout, and then rely more on fat stores to fuel the body between meals
********************

[The Butcher]

Mastiff, the science behind your last post makes sense, but the practical application seems a bit odd. If I'm reading you correctly, I should avoid fat intake for 3 hours after my slin shot (assuming I use Humalog). So, lets assume that I take my protein shake (which is about 70 grams of protein with the correct amount of carbs which I have yet to determine) and slin shot immediately after working out. I then must wait, or should wait, 3 more hours to consume any kind of fat. I will be starving in 2 hours, maybe even 1 hour, since my current protein shake includes 1/4 cup of peanuts that I will have to leave out if taking slin (the peanuts usually help to hold me over for 2 hours or so). So, my second meal after I workout will need to be either another protein shake with little fat, tuna, or chicken. Most other meat sources seem to have too much fat for the context we are discussing. Then, 3 hours after my slin shot I can eat some fat; i.e. a steak or a meat with a little more fat to it? Sorry if this is redundant to what you have just posted, but I want to make sure I am following you correctly.

Currently, I drink my protein shake (70g of protein, 18g of fat, and 33g of carbs) immediately after working out, and then two hours later I consume 100g of protein in the form of 16 oz. of meat (usually pork tenderloin or steak), about 140g of carbs from corn and oatmeal, and about 20-30g of fat from the meat. Given what you have said, I obviously should move this meal to 3+ hours after my workout instead of 2 hours, correct? As you said, I don't HAVE to stay away from fat, but it will go directly to my fat cells if I don't. I need to stay in somewhat lean condition, so I do not want to gain a bunch of fat from all of this. I want qualtiy weight (read=muscle) not just bulk (read=fat).

One more question related to the chemistry behind insulin : If my desired result is to force greater than normal amounts of amino acids into my muscles, is the ingestion of carbs merely a function of avoiding insulin shock? And "energizing" the muscles with glucose?

[Mastiff]

You've got the right idea. I make up 2 protein shakes with 70mg optimum whey, 75mg dextrose, and creatine. I slug one down with the shot and the HCA. Then I go eat some complex carbs, like a potato or some rice with some chicken or fish and a small amount of veggies (leftovers from the night before, no butter). Its not a real big meal. Then I sip the second shake, making it last till the two hours are up. I wait another hour before I eat again. Thats my big meal. The HCA prevents the slin from converting the carbs to fat, so they get stored in the muscles and liver. I don't worry at all about how many carbs I take, all they do is provide energy and give me good pumps. Could that work for you? Take the second shake to tide you over, and keep hypoglycemia at bay, till the 3 hours are up. Then eat half a cow.

Re: One more question related to the chemistry behind insulin : If my desired result is to force greater than normal amounts of amino acids into my muscles, is the ingestion of carbs merely a function of avoiding insulin shock? And "energizing" the muscles with glucose?

Yes. You get the idea perfectly.

[TeenPL]

dang, 6'6" and 290lbs!!!
That's is damn big, and it is inspiring how you are still striving to be bigger and better. Are you by any chance following doggcrap's program when it comes to cycling your AS?
You're a monster, hope you break your plateau.

[Crash]

It is never big enough is it?

I know where you are coming from bro, I am around the same area you are (my bf is a bit higher though)

Mastiff has posted some really good info in this thread for all to read.

[The Butcher]

Mastiff, regarding the HCA you use, where do you get it? I read the post from Nandi that you included in which Citrimax was mentioned. Is that a product available at a supplement store? How much slin are you using in each shot? What form do you get your 75g of dextrose in? Do you eat the complex carbs w/the lean protein source right after you drink your first protein shake? In other words, does your schedule look something like this:

Post-workout: slin shot/protein shake w/dextrose/HCA

0.5-1 hour post-workout: 8oz chicken or tuna; potato

2-3 hours post-workout: 2nd protein shake (do you use dextrose & HCA here as well?)

3+ hours post-workout: Large meal w/protein, carbs, and fat.

Also, Mastiff, does this slin/HCA/Protein/dextrose combination allow you to stay fairly lean? Thanks again for the info.


Re: TeenPL's question as to whether I am following doggcrap's AS program for cycling AS:

I'm not familiar w/doggcrap's program, but if you could direct me to where I can find it I'd like to look at it. Thanks.

[Mike62200]

HOLY HELL! congrats on breakin the barrier of natural genetics and ascending to the realm of The Hulk.

[Mastiff]

#1 Mastiff, regarding the HCA you use, where do you get it?
http://www.nowfoods.com/product_catalog/catalog.asp. Citrimax is HCA with some other stuff thrown in.

#2 How much slin are you using in each shot?
10-12iu.


#3 What form do you get your 75g of dextrose in?
Supplement Direct Pure Dextrose. It looks like sugar.

#4 Do you eat the complex carbs w/the lean protein source right after you drink your first protein shake? Yes, it looks like this:

Post-workout: slin shot/protein shake w/dextrose/HCA

0.5-0.75 hours post-workout: 8oz chicken or tuna; potato

0.75-2 hours post-workout:
2nd protein shake (I use dextrose, no HCA. The HCA that I took with the shot is a pill that will still be active). I spread this shake out, a little bit at a time. I'm trying to keep the blood glucose and amino acids up.

3+ hours post-workout: Large meal w/protein, carbs, and fat.


I've had no problems at all with fat gain.

[The Butcher]

Thanks Mastiff.

[goldenFloyd]

great thread guys... buthcer, where is the pic?!?

[BDTR]

Yeah i gotta see what 6ft 6 at 290 lbs and 8% bf looks like. Im 6ft 250 with higher BF that that and feel big... I can only dream of 290 with that low a bf. Post a pic man and holy shit this is an old thread.

[PurePower]

i would like to see it also. hey butcher what is your weight room stats i.e bench squat deadlift you are a big man i bet u have a monster deadlift.

[Breetai]

damn, your a f*****g monster! show us a pic asap!

[Ammar]

I want to see a pic also. Good luck with getting past your plateau. GH should do wonders for you...

[Nelstar]

6'6" almost 300 lbs @8%. .if you get any bigger youll be this gorrilla stuck in the gym all pale and beedy eyed because you havent seen the light of day because you cant fit through the door
nice work bro id love to see a pict..

[BigGreen]

Bro..post a pic..i gotta see this!!

Hell yeah, we're talking like Sid Vicioius size from the old TBS superstation NWA wrestling days! I'm frightened.

[The Butcher]

Who the hell dug this thread up?

Well, if I can ever get my lazy ass to hook up my camcorder to my computer I'll post a pic. I've been holding at 300 now for about 4 or 5 months. So, my weight hasn't increased much, but everyone has said that they can tell a difference in the maturity of my muscles. Don't know if it's from being on a gram of test for the past 6 months, or from getting a little older (late 20's) that has helped with that. I think it's a little bit of both. Unfortunetely I think my BF has crept up a little bit too. I'm actually more vascular now, but for some reason I feel fatter!

Someone asked about my gym stats (squat, deadlift, bench), so here are some recent ones:

Squat: Have only been going up to 600lbs for about 8 reps, but I keep fucking up my shoulder, so it's tough to keep the bar back there. I prefer to bang out 20 or more reps with 405 than going real heavy with these. It's such a long way to go down when you are 6'6".

Deadlift: Two weeks ago I did three sets of 500lbs with a close stance and no belt. Got 6 reps for the first set, and 5 for each of the other 2. If I went Sumo style, I'm sure I could have gone heavier for more reps, but I'm trying to get a thicker (from front to back) back so that's why I use a close stance and no belt.

Bench: I don't do flat bench. I use dumbells. Our gym only goes up to 150's but I can do 15 reps or more on flat with them, and 15 reps on incline with them as well.

I'll be honest with you, 6'6" and 300lbs is fairly big, but even I don't really notice how big it is until I see myself standing next to someone else. Perhaps one of these days I'll post a pic. Of course, that would mean I'd have move my friggin desk and hook up my camcorder. Sounds like alot of work!

[DADDYDBOL]

dude you are awesome, for real. My boy is 6'8" and around 245 so I can only imagine..........

[Mudge]

After awhile your estrogen levels get high enough that overall test level is not going to be that much, I think whoever told you to stay on year round simply because of your size is not telling you the whole story.

Keep in mind folks height adds weight like a mother, I'm 6'2" and have been between 231-240 for awhile now, and at my height its not all that big. I did know a guy that was 6'5" 280 though and he was "Big Bob"

[PurePower]

those are awesome lifts bro you should compeate in powerlifting :-) you would be the man

[punk_bbuilder]

Gotta see a pic of this
COme on man that is fucking huge, you eat guys like me for a snack

[mmaximus25]

Yeah your not going to like what I'm gonna say but depending on how much BF you got on you the best way to keep making gains is to diet down and lower your body fat every once and a while... Your metabolism is key in adding mass and the best way to get your metabolic rate kicking ass again is to drop BF... even big dudes like you should diet down at least once a year or once every two years... Remember bro bulking back to back is good for a while but with out cutting some BF you will:
#1 having an unhealthy lipid profile
#2 (a biggy) a decrease in BMR: The more fat a person has, the lower their basal metabolic rate. This means slower muscle growth.
#3 Sluggish performance: this can cause a need for thermogenic to be used compounding a high BP level

I didn't read all the post made... but you have done what most cant and mature at a high body mass... your goal now should be to cut Body fat down and then head right back on the road you were on before bulking (a true bulk... in my book is what you've accomplished)
GH might be the thing to help drop some body fat... I personally think you can do it with out and maybe use GH after a second successful bulk....

[MR.BICEPS]

Butcher what type of training routine are you following? Give us some specifics. That will be another factor in determining whether or not you'll continue to grow.

However it does sound like GH and slin are your next move if you really want to go that route. Souinds too me like your big enough! Maybe you should just work on routine and diet change ups to help you grow a liitle more.

For instance cut back on your protein intake for a while. I was reading an article about a professional bodybuilder who actually grew after coming off so much protein and then going back on. I guess your body becomes accustomed to it and needs a break .

I also agree that dieting down once a year can slow your metabolism and boost your weight above what it once was once you return to eating dense calories again.

I would also like too see your picture. You seem awful big to have never touched GH but I'm not doubting you in anyway. You must have great genes!

[The Butcher]

I never said I haven't used GH. I'm just not using it now, and other than keeping lean, it really didn't do much for me. I've used both Serostim and Humatrope, but only the Serostim for long periods of time (3+ months). Even with slin, I wasn't very impressed. I stopped the slin about 5 months ago, so maybe this fall I will give it another shot when I put on some winter "bulk".

MMax, I have been thinking lately about dieting down. This is the first summer in several years that I haven't tried to lean out for a few months. I haven't done cardio in months, so perhaps I will start that up again. I'm just trying to figure out when in the hell I will have time to do it. As it is, I only get about 5 hours of sleep a day, and it's usually not all at the same time! I saw some video of myself today though, and I am leaner than I feel. I feel like a fat ass, but for the most part I looked pretty good with my shirt off. A little fat in the love handles (that's the worst place on me for holding fat), but you could see the outline of at least my top 4 abs. People have been comenting lately that I look leaner too, but I'd like to drop the BF even lower.

Mr. Biceps, as far as my training goes, here's my split:
Day 1 Chest/front & side delts
Day 2 Quads/Calves
Day 3 Rest
Day 4 Back/Rear Delts/Traps
Day 5 Hamstrings/Calves
Day 6 Arms
Day 7 Rest

I really feel this routine has also contributed to the maturity of my muscles over the past year. It feels alot better to focus on "areas" of the body, as opposed to breaking it down into just body parts. I train alot by how I am feeling on a particular day, and if I am not feeling a movement, I go on to one that I can really get into. I push myself very hard, and I know when my body is done. I don't leave the gym until I have exhausted the muscles I intended to exhaust.

[mmaximus25]

Yeah I say diet down but just getting your metabolism working more efficient will raise BMR... I haven't done cardio in 10months... but some times I say fuck cardio... and a week on week off for 8-10 weeks of super setting my workout routine is enough cardio to raise my heart rate as if I were sprinting...
But you touched on a few things.... stress and sleep can hamper you into a sticking point... I know your 290 already but if lee priest can get up to 280 and 300lb bulking and then lean down I got money on your end as well.... Whats your around about Body fat anyway.... This might just be stress and sleep.... you need a break some where along with the raising of your metabolism a bit....
I don’t think your in a bad spot this might be as simple as getting more sleep...

I didn't even check how old this thread was... damn I'm a sucker... You've probably made changes and this shit is a problem passed...