07-29-2003, 09:24 PM #1
Heres a good question and something I've been thinking about!
I read an article on the net about how many steroid users are frustrated and spinning their wheels in a viscious cycle of gaining while using AS and losing when coming off. They spend their money only too lose strength,size and the money in which they spent when they come off.
They went on to say inorder to get the greatest benefits from AS bodybuilders must not come off their cycle but bridge down to a weaker steroid for a period of time before hitting another hardcore cycle.
I'd like to hear the pro's and con's to this approach. Obviously staying on indefinetly could have serious health consequences but his article rebukes that idea if one doesnt take 3 grams of test per week for 6 months straight.
07-29-2003, 10:36 PM #2Senior Member
- Join Date
- May 2002
I've done both methods with success. What you’re really missing in what ever article you’ve read is how those guys don’t have a consistent diet... It is purely diet when you start thinking about keeping gains... Many have an illusion that they have a hormonal imbalance and this causes them to loose muscle mass... I’m sorry but that is just bull shit... I've crashed many times in my beginning cycles and never lost muscle mass due to my high caloric intake... I gained fat because of my elevated estrogen levels, but there was no losing my lean mass gained... What some shit heads like to think is they are losing their gains because excess water is being alleviated and strength is lower… well your muscles are make up of water essentially and the higher glycogen levels that water binds to with in your muscles is significantly lower once off and to add the extra pint to 1-1/2 pint of blood you hold during a cycle is diminished once off also… take this in to consideration going into a cycle…. Don’t be the bone head that doesn’t know jack about physiology but will blurt shit out like I lost it all when I got off… better they say My diet was shit before, during and after my cycle and I couldn’t sustain an anabolic atmosphere during or after because of my poor nutrient intake. Fucking A, ya know
I cycle and bridge but not because I'm worried about losing gains but because I've gained mass steadily when diet is off but consistently when diet is good in a shorter time than cycling then recovering... I also prefer low dose cycles to high and heavy... I believe you need a substantially amount of time to build an anabolic atmosphere and during that time give your body an adjustment period of growth (let your body mature with the added weight) along with the tools (nutrients) to feed and repair body proteins...
You need time to circulate the prescribed dose of androgen and keep that circulation going for a consistent period and during that time you are supplying your body with super doses of nutrients...(why because your body is working more efficient while on… you can use the added caloric intake to further growth)
If you fail in your diet as I've done this cycle you have no one to blame but your self for not gaining as much muscle mass as you could have....
If you every fall victim to “the juice is doing it all mentality” you will fail in your diet most certainly...
Your diet must match your training style and cycle you’re on... other wise consider your cycle a failure before you start...
Cycling longer can be a benefit if you happen to slip on your diet, because you have time to recovery in that area and make the most of your cycle....
Short cycles you need to be meticulous about how when and what your gonna eat because that’s the maker or breaker...
I believe one or two bridges are good a year but recovery at least once in a two year span is the minimum... You must have a sense of morality when it comes to functioning as a man or women… And not let bodily malfunctions go unattended…. You might laugh but as an example; I think it is important to use such things as HCG to cause your gonads to function even if HPTA is not fully achieved or achieved at all… purely for the reason of not have an atrophied gonad…
This may not have been the reply you were look for but this is what came to mind as I read your question… One thing to add… a person that can not tell me how their body reacts to individual androgens should not dive into year long cycling… What that tells me is they have never done a risk to benefit (what doses and what androgens work best for your personally) and don’t know which androgen or androgens they may respond better to… That said they most definitely will learn through mistake and error… because if they go off of the definition to reaction and dose for a particular androgen, they will learn the hard way or take longer to dial it in… Those definitions are bull shit if you ask me… Ex. D-bol / anadrol … what water I don’t hold water with drol… I thought I was an anomaly in the matrix until Butcher said the same in a post. Reading those definition is one thing, taking the androgen and putting your reactions to those definitions is another…
Last edited by mmaximus25; 07-30-2003 at 08:55 AM.
07-29-2003, 11:54 PM #3
07-30-2003, 12:02 AM #4Junior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
- my apartment
Very good info!
07-30-2003, 12:13 AM #5
interesting .... good artical
07-30-2003, 01:39 AM #6
07-30-2003, 12:40 PM #7
Great info MMAXIMUS25 . It sound like the best route to go after acycle is to keep the diet good, cut your workouts back a bit, take some creatine to keep up the water and strength and ingest someting post cycle to decrease estrogenic fat gains.
I'm going to do just that after my next cycle.
The old theory of you body only remains the size of your current test levels never made any sense to me. Gaining muscle is hard but its generally easy to maintain once built. Thats why I never could figure out why one could'nt keep the muscle part of the equation as long as he used clomid.
Theres alot of conflicting stories when it comes to losing muscle after a cycle.
Thanks for your input!
07-30-2003, 01:13 PM #8Associate Member
- Join Date
- Oct 2002
Excellent post mmaximus25! There's a lot of experience behind those words. I also get pissed about people complaining about losing their "gains" after a cycle, instead of realizing their body is flushing out excess fluid. If we gained 25 lbs. of LBM each cycle, we would all be steppin' on the Mr. O stage in a few years. The truth of the matter is only a pct. of that 25 lb. cycle gain is comprised of LBM. It takes decades of consistent training (and eating) and 5-10 years of consistent androgen supplementation to build a physique that is nationally competitive on even the amateur level.
07-30-2003, 01:44 PM #9
Max, good post bro, I agree that regulating diet based on situation (on/off cycle, bulking vs. cutting etc...) is THE most important factor. I also like the point you made about understanding what works best for you individually... from experience I've learned what juice works best for me, at what dosages, and for how long. Like anything else BB'ing has a learning curve.
07-30-2003, 02:28 PM #10LORDBLiTZ Guest
That was awesome!!
07-30-2003, 11:30 PM #11Senior Member
Originally Posted by MR.BICEPS
- Join Date
- May 2002
I've realized that the old cycling methods do have some good perspective... I didn't understand this until recently.... the method of taper up and down had more to do with not having or using a post recovery tactic... The theory was to taper up to a dose of androgen and keep stable but then taper down in a way that let the body know whats about to happen… creating less stress on our endocrine system… You have to understand this is what probably came from the data taken from specific scientific fields at the time. Whether this is the best way can be argued among the guru’s and fanatics… Most body builders would also stay on the doses for a much longer time than what was printed.... I thought those 8weeks cycles were true... I'm telling you from the old timers (j/k if there are any 50 yr olds out there) I've talked to that’s just what was written... And people that followed that taper of androgens in a short period should have realized that sooner of later… I didn’t… I think in some ways it might have been done to hide the true usage of AAS. 8weeks… more like 15-20 weeks... and in some cases 52 weeks...
With a post cycle recovery and anti-e's and anti-aromo's through out... (I’m not saying do so but) you can dose higher than what was once done before.... Although keep in mind experience takes time and the good old “risk to benefit” as old Bill P's. philosophy(before he got soft)
does have great merit...
And that is basically to personally rate an androgen in dose vs. sides and results... and whether the sides were tolerable or intolerable... Meaning if you took 600mg of deca but got the same results with 400 and no sides... get where I'm going... get some apple and lets make apple pie. 400mg would obviously be the better choice... Ex 2... If you took 800mg of deca and had considerable to double the gains compared to the 400mg but with sides that were tolerable... get some more apples... ya know...
I do agree with creating a consistent anabolic atmosphere to make the greatest gains, however even if this is done properly and with the most kick ass diet... not all of us could step on a stage at the "O"... Although I do believe that you will subsequently create the best built body per your frame.... Genetics are to be rated high... you can spot them a mile away, some guys with few cycles than others have such genes that you can't compare to your self.... but don’t cry about it build the best body you can and do it right...
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