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  1. #1
    MR.BICEPS's Avatar
    MR.BICEPS is offline Junior Member
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    How do we reduce to many redblood cells? "VERY SERIOUS" ??

    My doc told me that my blood work showed elevated red blood cells.

    A nurse told me giving blood periodically could help this and prevent a stroke!!!! My endocrinologist said elevated red blood cells will indeed cause a stroke! Now I'm a little concerned about what to do???

    Can anyone give some input on how I'd go about giving blood every 6 months or so?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    goldenear is offline Associate Member
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    Whatever you do, don't go to a blood center under the guise that you're not "on" anything. It would be terrible for a pregnant woman, for ex., to get your blood (loaded with a bunch of androgens) from a transfusion.

    As long as your doc knows what's going on, he/she can write an order for a blood center to accept your donated blood and subsequently destroy it (or whatever they'd do with it). Don't be surprised if they won't let you give blood w/out that order if you admit to androgen supplementation.

  3. #3
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
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    Go donate blood. You dont need to tell them anything about your using.

    If a pregnant woman or a 90 y/o lady gets it or a baby gets it, its not going to cause harm. The levels in the blood are very very short lived.

    If it caused harm, the questionaire would ask if you are on HRT. They wouldnt mark blood male and female. But they dont, cause there is no need to.

    The only concern is use of needles.

  4. #4
    darmadoc is offline Member
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    First off I'd like to know just how high your red cells are. Do you have any lab results?

  5. #5
    goldenear is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate
    If it caused harm, the questionaire would ask if you are on HRT.
    The questionnaire that I filled out did and after reviewing my information, the nurses kindly showed me the door, lol. Also, saying that any compound is so short-lived in the bloodstream would negate any value whatsoever in testing for free, unbound androgen levels.

  6. #6
    LORDBLiTZ Guest
    I thought red blood cellz was a good thing

  7. #7
    arby is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenear
    The questionnaire that I filled out did and after reviewing my information, the nurses kindly showed me the door, lol. Also, saying that any compound is so short-lived in the bloodstream would negate any value whatsoever in testing for free, unbound androgen levels.
    Your blood is frozen when it is tested for androgens.
    Red blood cells can cause clotting and yes, stroke.
    I would take an aspirin a day until it's resolved. But the best way indeed is to donate blood. I suppose you could always pull a slap on a forehead and a "Oh jesus, I totally forgot about that medicine I was taking" afterwards.

    RB

  8. #8
    Sigmund Froid is offline Associate Member
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    Well, if a doctor told you that your test results indicate you have elevated androgen levels, and that this can eventually cause heart problems, would you freak out and have all your testosterone drained from your blood and start taking crazy amounts of estradiol or birth control pills? I think not.

    Any of us who take steroids experience an increase in red blood cells. Steroids like anadrol and equipoise are known for this. I enjoy the effects of increased red blood cell levels while on a cycle. The question is not whether the levels are elevated, but whether they really matter when all things are considered.

    When on a cycle of oral and injectable steroids I know that a test of my blood will reveal:
    1) That my liver appears to be struggling
    2) My red blood cell count is very high
    3) My cholesterol levels appear unfavorably balanced
    4) I have high DHT levels
    5) My blood pressure is elevated

    This does not mean that I will die of hepatoxicity, lose all of my hair, have a heart attack, experience a stroke and die. It simply means my body is responding to steroids.

    However, I don't want you to take my post so seriously that you ignore your doctor. It could be that your red blood cell levels are very, very dangerously high and require immediate attention.

    Nevertheless, if a doctor told me my liver values were high, I would say, "Test it again a few weeks after my cycle and it will be back to normal." (hopefully)

    -SF

  9. #9
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenear
    The questionnaire that I filled out did and after reviewing my information, the nurses kindly showed me the door, lol. Also, saying that any compound is so short-lived in the bloodstream would negate any value whatsoever in testing for free, unbound androgen levels.
    Because you probally answered yes to using a needle.

    They ARE so short lived they wont have an effect. Testosterone is natural in everyone. Woudlnt negate a blood test though. They dont dissapear, but the body alters them very fast. Guess I should have said alter instead of short-lived. Its not like they dissapear but, they get modified, broken down, aromatised, etc.

    I worked in a lab at a blood bank for 1.5 yrs.

  10. #10
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
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    BTW..you can check out the red cross website

    HRT is allowed. (although it states specifically for womena and not men, but doesnt say NOT men). It also acepts those on birth control.

    IF you can find the UK's version of red cross, I know it specifically states HRT is ok in men and women doners.

  11. #11
    usualsuspect's Avatar
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    case closed, once again by Billy. lol

  12. #12
    goldenear is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate
    Because you probally answered yes to using a needle.
    Actually, bro, the questionnaire asked if I was taking any prescription medication. At the time, I was on Omnadren , Primobolan , and GH. Since I had a scrip for the GH, I wrote "Genotropin." This caused quite a stir as 3 nurses searched furiously trying to find Genotropin in one of several large bound volumes of pharmaceuticals. It was actually quite hillarious. As soon as they found the listing and reviewed its details, my generosity was denied.

    If I have a chance, I'm going to go back to that blood bank and press them about their policies regarding prescription medication use and donating blood. I will definitely raise the Red Cross acceptances. I'm also going to pose this issue to an endocrinologist and my GP when I'm able to do so.

    While testosterone is endogenous to all humans, synthetic androgens certainly are not. Nor is it normal to have 5-10x the normal level of circulating testosterone (bound & free) as the average man. No HRT doc would ever allow his patients to enjoy the levels of testosterone that we do. With respect to esterified synthetic androgens, it seems the issue really is how rapidly de-esterification occurs after the compound is leached away from the depot and how rapidly binding at the AR occurs. Because it is possible to test for unbound testosterone, estrogen, etc. levels, I am led to believe that binding does not happen immediately.

    It also seems reasonable to assume that at any given moment while giving blood, it is possible that some nandrolone decanoate (for example) would escape from the depot into the bloodstream and be extracted from your body. And that's not even taking into consideration the amount of nandrolone already circulating before the decanoate ester could be fully hydrolyzed away.

    These are really biochem and microbiology issues and I am certainly not qualified to discuss either. But I will try to find someone who is and post his/her/their responses.

  13. #13
    rxarms's Avatar
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    This is how it works. The questionere is to help reduce the cost of testing the blood that is not usuable by not getting in the first place. All blood is screened and tested thoroughly for all kinds of things. Think about it. Anyone can lie on the questionere and do you think for one second they are going to allow questionable blood into the blood supply. Go on give blood, you are not hurting anyone and your doing yourself a favor. If the blood is bad they are not going to use it.

  14. #14
    ironmaster's Avatar
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    Does your doc know you are taking steroids ? As sigmond pointed out (and went unnoticed), steroids cause elevated red blood cell counts, among other things that freak out medical people but that are pretty much normal for us.

  15. #15
    Toxicwaste is offline New Member
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    I had the same problem

    Quote Originally Posted by MR.BICEPS
    My doc told me that my blood work showed elevated red blood cells.

    A nurse told me giving blood periodically could help this and prevent a stroke!!!! My endocrinologist said elevated red blood cells will indeed cause a stroke! Now I'm a little concerned about what to do???

    Can anyone give some input on how I'd go about giving blood every 6 months or so?

    Thanks!
    My doctor measured my red blood at over 700 after my last EQ cycle. He had me do an MRI and wanted to do a bone marrow biopsy if it did not go down. I was very open with him about my AS use. He tested me again a month later and I had a significant reduction. He did indicate that it increases your risk of stroke/heart attack because your blood becomes very think and your heart has to work hard to pump the thinkened blood. He suggested I begin taking a daily aspirin.

  16. #16
    darmadoc is offline Member
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    Isn't there a section on the blood donor form where you can request your blood only be used for "research?" I thought this was put there so that people with HIV, Hepatitis or other high risk problems could still go to the blood bank with freinds or family in a blood drive, still look like they were donating, yet keep the blood out of circulation.

    That being said, my guess is that the amount of AAS in a unit of blood would be diluted to ineffective levels in the recipient.

  17. #17
    ichabodcrane's Avatar
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    Aspirin won't decrease your red blood cell count, but will decrease the tendency for it to clot. For BB, what is aromatise? Just messin w/ya! I know you meant metabolize by the aromatase enzyme or cytochrome P450 enzyme system!!

  18. #18
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenear
    Actually, bro, the questionnaire asked if I was taking any prescription medication. At the time, I was on Omnadren , Primobolan , and GH. Since I had a scrip for the GH, I wrote "Genotropin." This caused quite a stir as 3 nurses searched furiously trying to find Genotropin in one of several large bound volumes of pharmaceuticals. It was actually quite hillarious. As soon as they found the listing and reviewed its details, my generosity was denied.

    If I have a chance, I'm going to go back to that blood bank and press them about their policies regarding prescription medication use and donating blood. I will definitely raise the Red Cross acceptances. I'm also going to pose this issue to an endocrinologist and my GP when I'm able to do so.

    While testosterone is endogenous to all humans, synthetic androgens certainly are not. Nor is it normal to have 5-10x the normal level of circulating testosterone (bound & free) as the average man. No HRT doc would ever allow his patients to enjoy the levels of testosterone that we do. With respect to esterified synthetic androgens, it seems the issue really is how rapidly de-esterification occurs after the compound is leached away from the depot and how rapidly binding at the AR occurs. Because it is possible to test for unbound testosterone, estrogen, etc. levels, I am led to believe that binding does not happen immediately.

    It also seems reasonable to assume that at any given moment while giving blood, it is possible that some nandrolone decanoate (for example) would escape from the depot into the bloodstream and be extracted from your body. And that's not even taking into consideration the amount of nandrolone already circulating before the decanoate ester could be fully hydrolyzed away.

    These are really biochem and microbiology issues and I am certainly not qualified to discuss either. But I will try to find someone who is and post his/her/their responses.

    They were wrong then. Red Cross website directly says its ok unless you have been taking GH prior to 1987.

    Why 1987...no clue.

    When you get blood tests for your free test, the units are TINY. The amount there is very very small. Like way way way less than even a mg. Even in a pint. Id have to actually calculate out the amount there, but It should be somewhere around maybe 500ng (nanograms!) in a pint with someone on high levels of exengonous AAS.

  19. #19
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ichabodcrane
    Aspirin won't decrease your red blood cell count, but will decrease the tendency for it to clot. For BB, what is aromatise? Just messin w/ya! I know you meant metabolize by the aromatase enzyme or cytochrome P450 enzyme system!!
    Im a fan of the CYP3A4

  20. #20
    ironmaster's Avatar
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    "Why 1987...no clue."

    Prior to the FDA approval of synthetic rhGH, GH was extracted from the pituitary gland of cadavers. It was discovered that certain wicked diseases could be contracted from cadaver GH, primarily Jacob Creutzfeld disease......which is a virus similar to mad cow disease.

    Lyle Alzedo blamed his fatal brain tumor on steroids , but it is much more likely that he contracted a virus from his use of cadaver GH.

  21. #21
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    The real issue is how elevated your Hb/Hct is....if you don't tell us the numbers then everyone's advice is worthless.

  22. #22
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironmaster
    "Why 1987...no clue."

    Prior to the FDA approval of synthetic rhGH, GH was extracted from the pituitary gland of cadavers. It was discovered that certain wicked diseases could be contracted from cadaver GH, primarily Jacob Creutzfeld disease......which is a virus similar to mad cow disease.

    Lyle Alzedo blamed his fatal brain tumor on steroids, but it is much more likely that he contracted a virus from his use of cadaver GH.
    Well, I wondered that, but I figured surely they werent still doing that all the way up till '87

    Thanks

  23. #23
    ironmaster's Avatar
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    You are right billy, but folks infected with JC disease lasted beyond the advent of synthetic GH. Last confirmed case ended (died) prior to 1987.

  24. #24
    ichabodcrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate
    Im a fan of the CYP3A4

    Could it be because it metabolizes ~ 70% of all known drugs, thereby increasing the chances of drug-drug interactions? And not to mention it's actions on endogenous substrates

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