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  1. #1
    cfase's Avatar
    cfase is offline Junior Member
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    First cycle Q's(losin my cherry ;))

    OK, i have decided to come over to the dark side. First of all my stats are 34 6'2" 230 ~14-15%bf. Lifting now on and off for the first 10yrs solidly for the last 1 1/5yrs. I wanna do a cycle of either enanth or prop.
    Now my enanth cycle would look like this(remember this is my first cycle)
    wk 1-10 500mg enanth.
    wk 7-12 50mg winny ed
    wk 13-16 standard chlomid post therapy.

    My question is, if i was going to use prop instead i know its a shorter acting ester so results are immediate and side are less...how long do i cycle it for? Is it something like this

    test prop cycle(remember again first cycle and my stats)
    wk 1-6or8 25 or 50 mg ed
    wk 1-6 or 3-8 50mg winny ed
    wk 9-12 standard chlomid therapy
    does the prop cycle look ok or can someone fix it for me. Thankz

    Another question i have is regarding the anti-e therapy. Is it better using arimadex?? If so how is it used with both cycles.

    Thankz in advance

    C

  2. #2
    G Child's Avatar
    G Child is offline Anabolic Member
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    YOu can run prop for as long as you can stand the ED injections.

    You could even run your first 7 weeks with enanthate then switch to prop for the last 3, winny weeks 5-10 and you will be able to run clomid a few days past your last injection.

  3. #3
    Drex is offline Junior Member
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    I can only deal with the ED shots for so long, so I would run the long acting ester for maybe 10 weeks but use prop at 100mg EOD for the 1st 4 weeks while you're waiting for the enth to fully kick in and then from weeks 10-12. The winny would work here from maybe 7-12 and clomid can start 3 days after the last shot.

    Arimidex would be used the same in both cycles. For those that are not extremely gyno prone, .5mg's ED from weeks 1-the end of clomid would do the job very well. Still keep nolvadex on hand though just incase gyno symptoms appear

  4. #4
    cfase's Avatar
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    Ok sounds good so far. Thanks for the input so far!! How does the prop look for strength??Its the 100mg/ml stuff so what is a decent rate??Is 1/2 a ml/day good on that str??or can i do 75 eod??something eod sounds better to me so even 1ml eod possibly?? whaddya think.
    I dont know if im gyno prone or not so i should have nolva incase right?
    How much do i take if i notice gyno?? Before i start this cycle i will have more than enough chlomid and nolva just in case..



    Cfase

  5. #5
    Drex is offline Junior Member
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    If you shoot the prop at 1.25cc's EOD you will get close to your desired test dose. 1 cc EOD will be ok too if its your first cycle though. Definitely have the nolva and if your nipples get puffy and start to hurt, take 60mg's for a day, 40 untill the symptoms go away, then 20 ED untill the end of clomid
    Last edited by Drex; 08-10-2003 at 12:39 PM.

  6. #6
    Money Boss Hustla's Avatar
    Money Boss Hustla is offline Retired Moderator
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    If you're going to do a prop kickstart...I'd do...

    1-4 75mg ED Test Prop
    1-10 500mg EW Test Enan


    As far as gyno...IMO just use the A-dex .25-.5mg ED throughout the cycle and PCT. Be proactive...not reactive against gyno.

  7. #7
    Billy_Bathgate's Avatar
    Billy_Bathgate is offline AR Vet / Retired
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    sides are not really any less with prop.

  8. #8
    cfase's Avatar
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    Excellent info broz! Ok, so I know the enanth doesnt kick in till ~the third-4th week right, so if im doing winny for the last 4 weeks of injections and two weeks after that as well and i dont use a kick starter
    for the first 3-4weeks, Will the first 3-4 suck?? I mean is that kinda like wasted time (in a way). Is it better to use say prop or dbol for a kick start to the enanth?? If i use dbol for the kick starter, how hard is my liver gonna take a beatin if im using winny to finish with?? I will follow moneyhuslas suggestion to use a-dex throughout as i believe in being proactive as well when it comes to estrogen/gyno as it will help with bloating if i decide to use dbols for the kickstart,,,right? I hear i can use nolva throughout to the end of pct as well right?? which is better as a precautionary measure, nolva or a-dex??

    Thanks again for the info!

    Cfase

  9. #9
    cfase's Avatar
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    bumpitty bump bump......

  10. #10
    cfase's Avatar
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    .......... bump.....

  11. #11
    Drex is offline Junior Member
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    Arimidex is a better precautionary approach IMO. The nolva is a "just incase" type of anti e, though it can be used for prevention.
    As for the first 3 weeks, without a kickstart you will basicly just be waiting a few weeks for somethign to happen. You will get alittle stronger but nothing crazy. I hate almost "wasting" this time, so I believe a kickstart is a must. Prop or dbol will do. Dbol might yield more weight and immediate strength gains, but alot will be water retention. As for the liver, as long as ur not on more then one oral at the same time, you will be ok.

  12. #12
    Money Boss Hustla's Avatar
    Money Boss Hustla is offline Retired Moderator
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    Since this is your first cycle...I stick with test only and see how you react to it before you start stacking other AS. So go with prop and enanthate .

  13. #13
    cfase's Avatar
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    Alright sounds good. I am kinda rethinkin the prop though. I like the idea of inj twice a week but i think prop ed might be a pain in the ass for a first cycle,,,pardon the pun... We will see how i like inj 2-3 times a week.
    So the cycle will be this:
    wks 1-4 dbol 30mg ed
    wks 1-10 600mg enanth
    wks 1-15 adex 0.5mg ed
    wks 12-15 cpt routine chlo.
    nolva on hand just in case. I left the winny out this cycle even though....just because dbol +enanth should do just fine, im thinkin.
    The a-dex will help with the bloat right? as well as with gyno.
    Thanks alot for the help so far!!!!!!!!!!!



    Cfase
    Last edited by cfase; 08-10-2003 at 11:53 PM.

  14. #14
    Drex is offline Junior Member
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    That looks good to me for a 1st cycle, though you can get away with a lower dose of test( 4-500) and work up to 600 in later cycles IMO. Only critique is to run the adex all the way to the end of clomid

  15. #15
    cfase's Avatar
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    Oh yah good point, my bad,,,thanks for pointing that out. There fixed.


    Cfase

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