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  1. #1
    D1N1SKA is offline Junior Member
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    Question Don’t pass me by – I need your help!

    Whats going on fellas?

    Once again I come to AR for your invaluable help. This time I need help with creating my 2nd cycle. Here is some background to consider:

    Age: 25
    Height: 6’1
    Weight: 200 lbs (198 to be exact)
    Time in training: about 5 years
    Cycles: I did (1) deca -winstrol cycle last spring, so this is going to be my 2nd one.
    **********************************
    [1st Cycle]
    12 weeks of Deca (400mg/week)
    5 weeks of Winny (50mg/everyday).
    Clomid therapy.

    I felt that cycle was too long, so I want to try shorter one this time (say 10 weeks). Also, I was not ready for Test back then, but now I AM!
    **********************************
    [2nd Cycle] – in planning
    10 weeks Deca (400mg/week)
    10 weeks Sustenon ( – not sure about dosing sust and not sure about sust all together. I might do other test if recommended over Sust)
    5 weeks Winstrol (50 mg/every day starting on the week #7 so the cycle will actually last for 12 weeks)
    Clomid therapy
    Nolvadex on hand
    I was also thinking of Primobolan , but I want to see what you guys will say.
    ***********************************
    I am not like most of the guys on the board – my goal is not to become as huge as I can. I want to be SOLID 215-220. I will be very happy with 215 pound of ripped muscles.
    Please let me know what cycle will suite me best.
    As always, your help is greatly appreciated and thanks in advance.

    Regards,
    D

  2. #2
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    i would go with test e or cyp over sust just my personal choice, your cycle looks good, i like the idea always of going over the longer esters with an oral or a short acting injectable so you can go straight into pct. If you dont hold much water and are happy to go with the test/deca bloat then i say you go for it, looks good. I would run the test@500mg per week. If you get your diet in order and training, im sure it will work out well for you

    peace

  3. #3
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    of course if you dont really want to bloat up to much, you could exchange deca for equipose, which would help out some, run it at 600mg week, same length of time, nothign else needs to change

    peace

  4. #4
    WiLLpOwEr's Avatar
    WiLLpOwEr is offline Member
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    Do not use Sustanon if you can avoid it. There are just so many bad things said about it, if you do a search you can find out what I mean.

    Stick to testosterone cypionate , testosterone enanthate , or testosterone suspension (which is actually preferred as has been shown to raise plasma levels of testosterone to double the amount when using an ether, however most people hate injecting every 8 hours).

    Also I do not think that any steroid not meant for humans is a good idea(equipose), because there will be parts of the steriod just floating around looking for receptor sites, however they will not be there(because you're not a horse). But then again many people swear by equipose.

    By the way, I like your philosophy of not trying to be as huge as you can. I have a similar goal, I want to be 225 pounds, with the same bodyfat I have now(I'm 5'9" 190 right now). Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

  5. #5
    D1N1SKA is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks a lot guys. Your input is really helpful. I heard bad things about Sust before and that’s why I wasn’t really sure about it. You guys confirmed them and I will say away from Sustenon.
    So what about Primobolan ? Should I try to throw it in there or its just not worth it?
    And that Deca /Test bloating does NOT sound very appealing to me. How bad is it?
    The reason I want to run Deca and Test together is because I hear this combo works really well. Will Equipose/Test combo work just as well? Please let me know.

    Thanks,
    D

    PS whats going on WiLLpOwEr? Hows everything?

  6. #6
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    Flounder is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Original Jason
    ... run it at 600mg week, same length of time

    Would you divide the shots 200mg every two days? Thanks.

  7. #7
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    well depends different people bloat in different ways, i can gain from 5-10lb of water in a week, and if ur not lean, that can make u feel pretty depressed, saying that not everyone is like me, you can of course use an anti aromatize like proviron or arimidex or femara which will help cut most of it out.

    Saying that, thats why i like equipose which is, despite anyones opinion, a top steroid and probably one of the most popular used steroids out there. I have no idea which part of the equipose would be left floating around looking for receptor sites? There is only boldenone and the ester and it has a strong affinity for binding to the AR, so i wouldnt worry to much about parts of it left floating around, it is a great compound.

    peace

  8. #8
    BUYLONGTERM's Avatar
    BUYLONGTERM is offline Anabolic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiLLpOwEr
    Do not use Sustanon if you can avoid it. There are just so many bad things said about it, if you do a search you can find out what I mean.

    Stick to testosterone cypionate , testosterone enanthate , or testosterone suspension (which is actually preferred as has been shown to raise plasma levels of testosterone to double the amount when using an ether, however most people hate injecting every 8 hours).

    Also I do not think that any steroid not meant for humans is a good idea(equipose), because there will be parts of the steriod just floating around looking for receptor sites, however they will not be there(because you're not a horse). But then again many people swear by equipose.

    By the way, I like your philosophy of not trying to be as huge as you can. I have a similar goal, I want to be 225 pounds, with the same bodyfat I have now(I'm 5'9" 190 right now). Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


    EQ is one of the best Steroids around. Most guys on the board would take it over Deca any day of the week. It has less sides than Deca.

  9. #9
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    i agree EQ any day over Deca

  10. #10
    goldenear is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by D1N1SKA
    So what about Primobolan ? Should I try to throw it in there or its just not worth it?
    And that Deca/Test bloating does NOT sound very appealing to me. How bad is it?
    Very, very difficult to find factory originals right now. Not worth the risk IMO. Regarding the Deca bloating...I don't experience the degree of bloating from Deca that I do from, say, testosterone or dbol . Not even close. Also, don't underestimate your ability to significantly reduce excessive fluid retention through diet manipulation.

  11. #11
    WiLLpOwEr's Avatar
    WiLLpOwEr is offline Member
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    It's not just my opinion that any steroid not made for humans is a bad idea. Check out what Nelson Montana has to say(if you don't know who Nelson Montana is, you don't know very many steroid writers):

    "With all the literature around concerning the wide array of anabolic substances, it may seem a little overwhelming trying to decide what is the quintessential combination for that "perfect" stack. For most intents and purposes, it's a lot simpler than you may think. When using steroids for health purposes, it's mandatory to consider only those substances that provide an advantageous risk to benefit ratio. This will exclude all veterinary products. Read this next sentence carefully:

    Veterinarian medications are not intended for human consumption!

    The purity guidelines are not as stringent for a cow as they are for a human. They are designed for animal receptor sites which will also work in humans, but much of it is wasted due to the fact that the molecule is floating around looking to attach itself to something that isn't there.

    Probably the least egregious of the vet products are Equipoise and Winstrol V, neither of which I would recommend. Many people develop flu like symptoms on Equipoise. Winstrol V is most similar to the "human" winny but it stays active in the bloodstream only for about 24 hours which necessitates daily injections at a high cost. As mentioned earlier, all of the testosterones (with the possible exception of Sustanon ) can cause problems, especially in the older athlete. Parabolin is very anabolic and not very androgenic , yet it has other toxic qualities."

    I have no doubt that equipose works. I never said it doesn't work. That would be a ridiculous/uninformed statement. All I'm saying is, why take a risk with something that definitely has the potential to damage you either immediately or later in life? At least with testosterone your body is used to it, but when you start dealing with other drugs that's when problems occur, and not just in the department of anabolic steroids . Again guys this is just an opinion so take it with a grain of salt.

    Hi D1N1SKA, I'm doing great. I just moved back to campus and I'm ready to go again. Classes haven't started yet, so I'm somewhat bored(I decided to take the week off from lifting to get myself adjusted again), but besides that all is well. Again good luck in your desicion.

  12. #12
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    alot of gear now is made by undergroud labs or people who are top quality who are just not registered with the fda in their country of origin, take body research and britishdragon for example, they make top quality stuff, BR make winstrol for inject, BD make equipose for inject, none of them i would consider vet quality. It is is true, about quality of some vet gear, brovel, denkall, and some other shit makes, however doesnt mean all of that product is bad. Boldenone and winstrol are probably 2 of the most popular steroids ever - and just cos whoever his name is doesnt agree, doesnt mean its fact. I would say the practical experience of probably thousands if not millions of bbers with eq and winstrol is more something i would listen to than one guy with an opinion, however thanks for posting

    peace

  13. #13
    D1N1SKA is offline Junior Member
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    Opinion or not all of your posts are very informative and helpful. And I thank you all infinitely. I still have few more questions. I understand most people that replied agree I should run a cycle that looks like this:

    Equipose 400-600mg/week (Week 1-10)
    Testosterone Enantheate/Cypionate 500mg/week (1-10)
    Winstrol 50mg/every day (7-12)
    Nolvadex (I need to find out the dosage for this)
    Clomid

    Does this look straight now? Please let me know.

    WiLLpOwEr, its good to hear you doing well. Good luck this semester. You said that you would not recommend using veterinary gear. If you were me, how would your cycle look like? Please don’t forget to put yourself in my shoes and consider all of the background I provided. Im trying to keep my options open and I would love to see your cycle. Thanks.

    If we take out the risk of Primobolan Depot being faked, would anyone throw it in my cycle? And how would you stack it? Would you take out winny or leave it and take both primo and winny?

    Waiting for your replies.
    Later,
    D

  14. #14
    WiLLpOwEr's Avatar
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    Ok D, I'll try to put myself in your shoes as best I can. However, this will be difficult, because I am unsure if you can live with some side effects or you simply do not want to experience them at all. So, to give you another perspective, I'll set it up for you as best I can.

    [4-weeks pre-cycle]
    Glucosamine 2500mg ED
    Chondriton(spelling incorrect) 1000mg ED

    [Weeks 1-3]
    150mg Testosterone Suspension ED(50mg every 8 hours)
    50mg Oral Winistrol ED(try to take in two 25mg doses if possible)
    20mg Nolvadex ED

    [Week 4]
    40mg Nolvadex ED

    [Week 5-6]
    20mg Nolvadex ED

    [Week 7]
    Off

    [Week 8]
    You may repeat

    Philosophy behind this cycle:

    If you want safety, the number one rule is short duration. No cycle should be longer than 3 weeks for health purposes, and keepable gains. The coolest thing about this setup is you will not lose anything that you gain. And you can expect to gain 5-9 pounds of rock hard muscle.

    I like Nolvadex over the traditional Clomid, simply because of the safety history of Nolvadex. Clomid has been shown to give extreme acne, cause emotional distrubances, and, even though the cases are extremely rare, has been shown to cause permanent vision problems. The reason is simple: the reccommended dose that doctors perscribe for patients taking Nolvadex is 20-40mg every day, where for Clomid, the average dose is 25-50mg every day, and as you most likely know, clomid users usually take 100-150 mg every day, which is 2-3 times the prescribed dose.

    I included winistrol because you included it yourself, and I am assuming you want mass, but with a rock hard look attached. I am assuming that your bodyfat levels are decently low, otherwise I would not recommend the Winistrol(and, if this is the case, you can drop the glucosamine/chondrition as well).

    What about the testosterone suspension? Why such high doses? Why such an unorthodox steriod ?

    Well, since the actual cycle is only 3 weeks long, you want to hit the system hard and leave quick before side affects develop, which they wont. And believe me, 1050mg of testosterone a week is not that extreme, your body can handle it, espically in such a short time frame. Testosterone suspension has been shown in lab tests to raise plasma levels of testosterone levels to double the amount in relation to ether steriods , so it has another plus side there. Also, testosterone suspension is the most "natural" steriod there is, it is just testosterone mixed with water. I think it is also the most hardcore(although hardcore may not be the correct word), but that's another post. Just make sure you rotate injection sites, preferably using the glutes as the primary spot, and using delts and quads as well.

    So why don't other people try this? Well, the simple answer to that is, most people can deal with side affects for the 10-12 weeks that they are on steroids , and they like the 15-25 pounds of mass that they gain. But I'm telling you D, if you try this, you'll love it. I know because I tried it myself(although I did not bother with the Nolvadex in the middle of my cycle, because my body can handle the increase in estrogen with no problem). I think this is the healthiest way possible to cycle steroids, and if you try it, I know you will agree.
    Last edited by WiLLpOwEr; 08-27-2003 at 03:53 PM.

  15. #15
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    That looks like you just copied it from somewhere, you also write on your profile you have experience with var when you were 15, thats it, how old are you ?? I hate to think you are giving out advice based on your opinions, as we just dont wear that here, we have had many people coming along giving out advice, who dont have a clue, hope you are not one of those.

    as for the cycle, i would stick with the cycle you have planned, clomid 2.5 weeks post cycle 300/100/50 method, and nolva keep on hand in case you need it. I would run the eq @600mg per week, i am sure you will be happy with that

    peace

  16. #16
    WiLLpOwEr's Avatar
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    Ok you think I copied that from somewhere?Thanks. That is definitely a complement, because I did not copy that, that is my opinion, based from about 9 months of researching steriods , on and off at times. And what does it matter how old I am? If someone is older does that make his/her opinion more valid than mine? Shouldn't knowledge be the determining factor, not age?

    And plus, you think I could just make that up? Just a random cycle based on my wildest imagination? I can assure you this is not the case. In fact, if you would please read the bottom, I have tried this myself and I was very pleased with the results I had. I would not give out information to D1N1SKA because we have a minor friendship and I would not offer him bad advice. If I did not feel qualified enough to give him my honest opinion as to what I would do if I was in his shoes I would simply say "I'm not sure what you should do". I would not post a ridiculous reply just to make myself seem more educated/knowledgeable, because if that was in fact the case, it would make me appear less educated/knowledgeable because the information would be wrong!
    But at least your doing your job Jason, and that is moderating the posts. I know moderators in others boards who are never on and do not look out for their members, but that is not the case with you.

  17. #17
    the original jason is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    i am looking out for the health of the members people giving out what i consider to be unconventional cycle experience advice at a young age, i can presume you are young as you wont state your age, is not usually something we can overlook. Age has alot to do with it, as knowledge and more importantly experience is gathered with age, people who come here looking for advice, do not want to be answered by an 18 year old who has read a few books and internet message boards ( no offense)

    peace

  18. #18
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    tryingtogetbig is offline Whiney Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Original Jason
    people who come here looking for advice, do not want to be answered by an 18 year old who has read a few books and internet message boards ( no offense)

    peace

    I know that I want advice that derives from experience. Knowledge is nice to have, but wisdom and experience can save your life!

    peace,

    ttgb

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