Deca Gyno?? No cure, wtf?! READ.

Ok long story short I need experienced help... did first cycle of 200mg/week of deca and 4 weeks of winny every other day.

2 months after I stopped I got sore nipples which are puffy, had them for 3 weeks now.

Some people recommend bromo (anti progesterone), but this does not make sense as I read that deca binds to the progesterone receptors of those who are gyno proned to deca.

So what is the point of giving an anti progesterone medication if the problem is on the receptor, theoretically it wont do anything. And why did it take 2 months after this light cycle to develop any gyno symptoms.

I am very worried, and am going to get my blood levels looked at tomorrow.

If someone has been through this and can tell me that it will either correct itself or that, bromo or vitex will help PLEASE respond.

Bro, quick question. How much did you study about "gear" before you brought this stuff into your body? Im talking about the gear itself, the sides, the proper PCT, the anti e's and anti prog's, the ether lengths, the effects on your muscle and mental wellbeing?

I studied extensively and talk to alot of people who did the same cycle, all told me at these low of a dose side effects are very rare, and that clomid wasnt necessary... thats besides the point I need some input now, not to be flamed,.. hopefully someone can help me and other people that may run into this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Decamagas

I studied extensively and talk to alot of people who did the same cycle, all told me at these low of a dose side effects are very rare, and that clomid wasnt necessary... thats besides the point I need some input now, not to be flamed,.. hopefully someone can help me and other people that may run into this.

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Wow, these people told you clomid wasnt necessary? That is the dumbest thing Ive ever heard. You need it to reopen your testicular axis, so you can get your spermies free and your test count UP. This is really the only way you can keep most of your gains post cycle. This and HCG. Man, no matter what dose you run of deca, it still shuts you down the hardest of all roids. You DO I repeat DO need it.....

Pheedno made this post a while back. This is a very good read and will help you understand a little about progesrtogen gyno. I suggest that you get some bromo or another prolactin inhibitor and run clomid to help get your test levels back up. Very good idea about getting your blood levels tested.

Good luck bro.

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I stole this from Pheedno-

This thread is entirely from my research on this subject and should not be taken as fact untill your own research has been done for personal confirmation.


OK, Prolactin and progesterone do not have direct effects on each other.
Estrogen and Progesterone do. Prolactin and testosterone have direct effects on each other.

Elevated estrogen levels means a decrease in progesterone levels and vice versa.

Elevated Prolactin levels means lowered testosterone/dopamine levels and vice versa

SO

Explaination:
When prolactin levels are increased, testosterone and dopamine levels are reduced. With that testosterone decrease, your body reduces the amount of estrogen being produced as well which results in an increase of progesterone(this is why most catagorize progest./prolactin together)
Now if a prolactin inhibitor is introduced such as Bromo, your test/dopamine levels will raise. This raise in testosterone can trigger your body to produce estrogen to compensate this increase. At this point progesterone is decreased to balance out the estrogen/progesterone ratio.

So in the case of a Fina cycle. Fina is administered, and prolactin increases(common with Fina). With that prolactin increase, the persons testosterone is lowered(along with dopamine). The lowered testosterone triggers a decrease in estrogen production which raises progesterone.

This is the reason why it is very important to have an anti-estrogen and prolactin inhibitor when partaking in a cycle that increases prolactin such as Fina or Decca. If you lower that prolactin with Bromo, your test levels will increase there by increasing estrogen production.


If a Prolactin inhibitor is not available, Vit. B6 can reduce prolactin in some. I have had success with 800mg split through the day.

Prolactin inhibitors possibly available:
Bromocriptine
Pergolide(Permax)
Cabergoline
Quinagolide
Terguride
Any of these should be researched before administration and I am not suggesting these. Just listing

Anti-estrogens should not need listing.

Get off Deca! If the Winny didnt keep it off you need to move on to EQ or something else. Watch out for Fina if you are that sensitive....SR

I have been off the deca for 2 months and have been clean ever since. I think I am gonna try to get on the Vitex and see what happens..
Then see if I can get some Clomid and maybe bromo, but I figured my levels would have returned to normal after 2 months.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ShawnRay

Get off Deca! If the Winny didnt keep it off you need to move on to EQ or something else. Watch out for Fina if you are that sensitive....SR

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True, cause bro winny should combat it when the two are mixed together in the body.

Can anyone explain why it took a full month after I stopped any "gear" for these soar nipples to kick in, I have no other side effects.
BTW any idea how long it will take for my body to return to "normal"?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Decamagas

Can anyone explain why it took a full month after I was any deca and winny for these soar nipples to kick in, I have no other side effects.
BTW any idea how long it will take for my body to return to "normal"?

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Maybe ether lengths and half times and/or the build up of progesterone in you body post-cycle/shut down....Let the vets chime in on this one....

Can anyone help answer this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Decamagas

Can anyone explain why it took a full month after I stopped any "gear" for these soar nipples to kick in, I have no other side effects.
BTW any idea how long it will take for my body to return to "normal"?

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One of the possible reasons - deca is a really really really slow ester.

From previous posts we've learned that people react differently - some get gyno symptoms 5 days into gear - some months.

Simply because your're off "gear" for a month - doesn't mean you don't have AS in your system - deca is still very active in your system - in fact 3 weeks after your last shot, deca is at its prime (think of all the half lives of your previous shots add to that your last shot)

You're one of those people, who takes longer to get gyno symptoms.

Hope that helps

Jay

PS Tell us about your PCT - for some reason you didn't mention it at all.

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The problem now more than likely is you are experiencing a high estrogen level as your body tries to normalize its hormone levels. One of the many reasons we suggest running Nolvadex throughout PCT. I recommend Nolvadex and an anti-e like arimidex along with some clomid. Bromo won't hurt although I doubt that it will help with what is going on now.

I concur with Rickson. It sounds like a classic case of estrogen rebound. Almost all gear shuts down the HPTA. Once it starts to recover your natural testosterone levels your estrogen levels also increase. Once that happens you have the possibility of developing gyno.

The solution? Make sure to regulate your HPTA with clomid and take an estrogen inhibitor like nolvadex.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rickson

The problem now more than likely is you are experiencing a high estrogen level as your body tries to normalize its hormone levels. One of the many reasons we suggest running Nolvadex throughout PCT. I recommend Nolvadex and an anti-e like arimidex along with some clomid. Bromo won't hurt although I doubt that it will help with what is going on now.

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I thought the question was - why he gets gyno sysmptoms 1 month after he discontinued deca ----- the answer is simple - the estrogen level 4 weeks after last shot of deca is very high (arguably. at its highest levels, if no anti-e's been used)

At this point, 2 months later, deca's presence is diminishing - since he hasn't used clomid - his natural levels, probably, just starting to normalize.

IMO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roidmanraging

I concur with Rickson. It sounds like a classic case of estrogen rebound. Almost all gear shuts down the HPTA. Once it starts to recover your natural testosterone levels your estrogen levels also increase. Once that happens you have the possibility of developing gyno.

The solution? Make sure to regulate your HPTA with clomid and take an estrogen inhibitor like nolvadex.

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Can you post a link to where I could learn more about estrogen rebound.

I, honestly, never heard of the natural levels while recovering would produce more estrogen than AS during the cycle. ---

I can't think how this could happen...... but if it's a "classic case" - I would love to read more and learn about it.

Thanks

Jay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rookiejay

I thought the question was - why he gets gyno sysmptoms 1 month after he discontinued deca ----- the answer is simple - the estrogen level 4 weeks after last shot of deca is very high (arguably. at its highest levels, if no anti-e's been used)

At this point, 2 months later, deca's presence is diminishing - since he hasn't used clomid - his natural levels, probably, just starting to normalize.

IMO

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Yup.....

Well I think his primary question is why is he experiencing what he thinks is a prolactin/progesterone induced gyno so long after the last administration of AAS. My best guess is that it is high levels of estrogen due to such a low test level. Much the way a eunich experiences an increase in female characteristics. Since Deca does not convert greatly into estrogen it is due to his lack of test levels and his higher ratio of estrogen. While decanoate is a long ester its highest blood concentration is within 24hours of administration like all esters. At three weeks its effective levels should be leaving the body although metabolites can be around for quite some time. Without a proper PCT regimen I think his best bet is a serm and anti-e although testing for high prolactin levels cant hurt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rickson

Well I think his primary question is why is he experiencing what he thinks is a prolactin/progesterone induced gyno so long after the last administration of AAS. My best guess is that it is high levels of estrogen due to such a low test level. Much the way a eunich experiences an increase in female characteristics. Since Deca does not convert greatly into estrogen it is due to his lack of test levels and his higher ratio of estrogen. While decanoate is a long ester its highest blood concentration is within 24hours of administration like all esters. At three weeks its effective levels should be leaving the body although metabolites can be around for quite some time. Without a proper PCT regimen I think his best bet is a serm and anti-e although testing for high prolactin levels cant hurt.

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So, it's a natural test imbalance...... that's interesting.

Decamagas - first of all - start taking anti-e's ---- and go check your test levels.

Rickson, do you think if he gets a couple of shots of test prop while on clomid and nolva PCT would negate the effect?

I started taking 2000 mg Vitex a day today, because that is all I can get at this point.... hopefully my blood work will be complete by the end of the week. Man I really hope this doesnt turn into anything serious.. I am sweating this out.

Low test levels are likley what caused gyno post cycle.

You dont need high estrogen to get gyno, simply having low testosterone levels is enough to set off gyno and is the most often seen reason in clinic.

How long will this last, and will it leave long lasting results?

Unless he is experiencing a lack of libido, depression, and/or extreme catabolism then I don't think he should use anything other than the serm/anti-e or it will be counter productive to recovery. If he is crashing hard he may want to use a morning dbol bridge.

No depression , or lack of libido, just the god damn sensitive Nips! Its freaky.... anyway to tell when it may go away? Im gonna see a doctor later this week.