Pros and cons running Winny and Dbol at the end of the cycle....

[Rookiejay]

At this point I'm absolutely convinced that a good "kick end" of the cycle is as (if not more) important as a good "kick start".

I've read in several places, including the drug profile here, about winny and dbol being a good combo.

I've heard arguments against this combo as well. (bulking vs. cutting, etc)

After reading - I'm planning to add dbol to my winny "kick end".

Any thought (pros and cons) are appeciated.

Jay

[KeyMastur]

Well, winny for 1 isn't going to give you size gains, but more or less lean you out - therefore a great ending to a bulking cycle.

As for d-bol - just the opposite. Known for quick strength gains with bloating to it as well.

Plus, both are 17aa - no need in causing too much damage to your liver at one time.

[TheMudMan]

If you will be running in the same weeks it could do a number on your liver.

What does the cycle look like?

[Pheedno]

Dbol - Strength, quick mass, retension

Winny- Hardness, vacularity, lean gain

Seems to me that 1. Strength coming in quick at the end of a cycle is not there to stay. 2. That leaves retension and quick mass which will ultimately over power winny's effects.

When in doubt-Use Prop

[Rookiejay]

If you will be running in the same weeks it could do a number on your liver.

What does the cycle look like?

1-3 dbol 25mg/ed
1-8 Test E 250 e5d
1-8 Deca 200 e5d
9-12 Test E 250 e4d (or every 3 days)
12-14 Winny 50mg ed
PCT
1-end of PCT - Nolva 20mg/ed

I'm on my 6th week - the results so far are outstanding.

[TheMudMan]

I would run the cycle a little different.

1 - 4 D-Bol at 25mg ED
1 - 12 Enan @ 500mg a week
1 - 11 Deca @ 400mg a week
9 - 14 Winny @ 50mg ED
1 - PCT Nolva at 10 or 20mg ED
Have a prolactin on hand

Start PCT 1 day after last winny injection

[WiLLpOwEr]

Well, I think that the winny is a good idea because it will block the gyno caused by Deca (I think because it blocks progesterone...I do not know if this is a fact just what I have heard). I can tell you from experience that winny makes you look HARD, and I mean really hard. But it seems to me that all winny does is take water out of the body, both subcutenously and from your joints. Although some say it might add some mass. I don't know if it does or not.

Another thing about winny is, if you are not training with proper form, winny will clear it up any form breaks REAL quick. That's a secret..if you want to learn how to train with proper form, just watch someone that's on winny. The reason is, because of the joint pain. There is just no water in the joints. You're going to have to do light warm up sets on machines before you go all out on your free weights...I can almost say that with absolutely certainty..espically because you're using 50mg every day. And I don't think that there is a difference between oral and injectable winny.

All in all, I'd say use the winny if you are afraid of getting "deca gyno" and/or you want to look hard at the end of your cycle.

Good luck as always Jay .

Note to Jay: I am still looking for any documentation regarding the amount of natural testosterone produced per week(all I really need is the average rate of testosterone destroyed throughout the course of the day and I can figure it out). So I'll let you know if I find anything.

[TheMudMan]

1-3 dbol 25mg/ed
1-8 Test E 250 e5d
1-8 Deca 200 e5d
9-12 Test E 250 e4d (or every 3 days)
12-14 Winny 50mg ed
PCT
1-end of PCT - Nolva 20mg/ed

I'm on my 6th week - the results so far are outstanding.

Sorry bro you are already running the cycle. I wasn't paying attention pretty busy today. I would have still ran it a little different but...

Good luck with the rest of the cycle.

[Rookiejay]

If you will be running in the same weeks it could do a number on your liver.

.......Plus, both are 17aa - no need in causing too much damage to your liver at one time.

indeed - the liver damage seems like a very powerful argument agains it. I didn't think about it.......

[Rookiejay]

When in doubt-Use Prop

That's a good idea - I should use prop instead of dbols for the "kick end"

[BDTR]

The #1 reason i wouldn't run them together is when I run winnie, i run it for its muscle hardening effects and when I run dbol , it makes me smooth. I wouldn't want to negate the reason i use winnie to begin with by using dbol. Go with the prop.

[Rookiejay]

I would run the cycle a little different.

1 - 4 D-Bol at 25mg ED
1 - 12 Enan @ 500mg a week
1 - 11 Deca @ 400mg a week
9 - 14 Winny @ 50mg ED
1 - PCT Nolva at 10 or 20mg ED
Have a prolactin on hand

Start PCT 1 day after last winny injection

actually, I was originaly planning to run it pretty similar to this.

I dropped dbols after 3 weeks - when Test kicked in - ended up being a very smooth transition.

Even though I like deca - I decided to phase it out after 8 weeks and bump up test to keep total AS levels even or higher (after reading the research posted by BASK8CASE)

[BUYLONGTERM]

Your not running the winstrol long enough