Clomid Vision?

**The Brain** · 09-14-2003, 02:34 PM

anyone taken CLOMID and experienced problems in there vision?

is it best to discountinue dosage?

**RON** · 09-14-2003, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by The Brain

anyone taken CLOMID and experienced problems in there vision?

is it best to discountinue dosage?

I've never had any problems but I'd try hcg and nolva post cycle if clomid is giving you problems bro. I also think a doctors visit may be needed. Don't mess with your eyes bro its not worth the risk.

**zwarrior99** · 09-14-2003, 03:41 PM

Switch to nolva.

***Sicilian30*** · 09-14-2003, 03:44 PM

yes clomid does effect the vision, I used to knwo the correct medical term for it, but I have forgotten. sowwy. yes, some people claim they see tracers, others experience blurred vision. These are side effects that do happen. I personally have never experineced them, but I have read and heard of guys having these problems, and it is a known side effect of the drug.
I do believe in clomid AND NOLv AND ARMIDEX post cycle. However if you are having SERIOUS problems with vision on clomid, disconintue and yes you can substitute just nolv for it, I use all of them, post cycle.
The reason I like clomid, is simple. Synthetic estrogen. Nolv does not give you that.
"Why synthetic estrogen"? Well when your body is robbed of hormones. Post cycle your body is what is called a "hormone shock". Your body is basically hormoneless. It is suddendly put into a position ot start producting hormones. Both estrogen and testosterone are both at a neutral state. Both suddendly are fighting to crank back up again. What you don't want to happen is, for estrogen to start producing faster or more than testosterone. therefore indroducing your body to a synthetic estrogen, simply "tells your body", that it is receiving enough estrogen, therefore shutting down it's production of estrogen. (kind of like starting a cycle. Your body sees that you are getting testosterone, therefore it shuts down it's natural production). Same thing happens when you take clomid (in therory). Nolv, and arimedex can add to this process by blocking estrogen receptors so that they are not picked up by those estrogen receptors in your body, and armidex, stops your body from the test that is now producing to not convert to estrogen.
Clomid does have other benefits, one study I read shows that it helps boost the hypathalus faster and help the body start producing hormones faster than normal.
Again I am not saying that clomid is the end all be all, I am saying that I use it in conjunction with other types of anti e's and drugs to help boost your body's recovery when coming off AS.
Just my .02 cents worth.

**The Brain** · 09-14-2003, 04:39 PM

thx for the extensive reply.

**realityarts** · 09-14-2003, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sicilian30

yes clomid does effect the vision, I used to knwo the correct medical term for it, but I have forgotten. sowwy. yes, some people claim they see tracers, others experience blurred vision. These are side effects that do happen. I personally have never experineced them, but I have read and heard of guys having these problems, and it is a known side effect of the drug.
I do believe in clomid AND NOLv AND ARMIDEX post cycle. However if you are having SERIOUS problems with vision on clomid, disconintue and yes you can substitute just nolv for it, I use all of them, post cycle.
The reason I like clomid, is simple. Synthetic estrogen. Nolv does not give you that.
"Why synthetic estrogen"? Well when your body is robbed of hormones. Post cycle your body is what is called a "hormone shock". Your body is basically hormoneless. It is suddendly put into a position ot start producting hormones. Both estrogen and testosterone are both at a neutral state. Both suddendly are fighting to crank back up again. What you don't want to happen is, for estrogen to start producing faster or more than testosterone. therefore indroducing your body to a synthetic estrogen, simply "tells your body", that it is receiving enough estrogen, therefore shutting down it's production of estrogen. (kind of like starting a cycle. Your body sees that you are getting testosterone, therefore it shuts down it's natural production). Same thing happens when you take clomid (in therory). Nolv, and arimedex can add to this process by blocking estrogen receptors so that they are not picked up by those estrogen receptors in your body, and armidex, stops your body from the test that is now producing to not convert to estrogen.
Clomid does have other benefits, one study I read shows that it helps boost the hypathalus faster and help the body start producing hormones faster than normal.
Again I am not saying that clomid is the end all be all, I am saying that I use it in conjunction with other types of anti e's and drugs to help boost your body's recovery when coming off AS.
Just my .02 cents worth.

Good post! Have you had any troubles with any anti-e meds?

**toolman** · 09-14-2003, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by realityarts

Good post! Have you had any troubles with any anti-e meds?

If you read the lit on Clomid it says to discontinue use immediately and consult your physician should vision problems occur.

**BornToSteel** · 09-14-2003, 06:01 PM

quit ANY AAS that is giving you sides you dont understand or are uncomfotable. I never had vision issues but do seem to dream very vividly and remember alot more in the morning. Also do get me near any kind of a chick flick when im on it cause ill cry more than my wife. I keep Nolva and clomid around- maybe you could too to be on the safe side

BTS

***Sicilian30*** · 09-14-2003, 06:04 PM

The only problems I have seen with Anti E's like Armidex, or Femara, is joint pain. These two are hell on the joints, when used on a regular basis for long periods of time. Nolv, I haven't seen any sides.
As far as vision warning, you have to remember Tool man, this drug was not orginally designed for males. It is a female fertility drug.
Here is a quote from a website I found on sides:
This medicine may cause blurred vision, difficulty in reading, or other changes in vision. It may also cause some people to become dizzy or lightheaded. Make sure you know how you react to this medicine before you drive, use machines, or do anything else that could be dangerous if you are not clear-headed or able to see well . If these reactions are especially bothersome, check with your doctor.

Here is the website talking about it, again remember it is designed as a female fertility drug.
http://www.drugs.com/xq/cfm/pageID_0...x/qx/index.htm

Blurred vision is a side of the medicine as most. It only indicates that if the symptoms get serious and cause serious problems consult your doctor.

***Sicilian30*** · 09-14-2003, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by BornToSteel

Also do get me near any kind of a chick flick when im on it cause ill cry more than my wife.

BTS

Of course. Clomid is a synthetic estrogen, and if you take it post cycle, remember your estrogen levels are proabally at their highest post cycle. This acutally is not an uncommon thing. LOL. Thank goodness it is temporary. I can't handle being a woman...

**Slyder** · 09-14-2003, 08:30 PM

I get visuals with clomid, mostly more in the beginning with higher doses, but they go away when you discontinue clomid.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 09-15-2003, 10:00 AM

With only 4 days to go, I experienced trails of light!!! It freaked me out, but I stopped taking it immediately.

**ichabodcrane** · 09-15-2003, 12:12 PM

Actually, both clomid and nolva have the potential for causing oculotoxicity. I am pretty sure I posted on this before. Yes originally these drugs were designed for females, but clomid is becoming more popular for male infertility. The mechanism by which they induce oculotox. would be the same in females as it would be in males. I did a primary lit. presentation on nolva and oculotox. and like I have said before, it didn't look too good. I came across alot of primary literature articles leaning toward a causal relationship between nolva and oculotox. Since clomid and nolva are structurally similar, I came across just as many articles stating that clomid induces vision problems as well. But most of these studies (nolva) were done in women who were taking the drug for breast cancer, BUT who were also taking other drugs that could have made the causal relationship, ie. corticosteroids are notorious for inducing vision problems. But the fact remains that both drugs can and do concentrate in the macula of the retina and can crystallize out causing the vision problems. But the only comment I have to make is that it did seem to be time (not dose) related. Also remember that when you are reviewing the primary lit articles, do so with an open mind and remember why the study was being conducted, in whom it was being conducted and most importantly> is it generalizable to the real world (or are the results applicable to us, the general population)? It is often hard to analyze medical literature, and unless you have experience in doing so, you cannot and must not always take for granted what the authors are saying in their results. You must make your own conclusion, be aware of bias that may effect the general outcome or make the results invalid. AND NEVER just read the abstract and make your decision from this. This is the biggest mistake anybody trying to make conclusions from primary literature can do. The most important part of the article is the methods section. It is in here that you will find what makes the study valid, if indeed it is. Here you will find how subjects were selected, why they were selected or excluded and any other confounding variables that may make the article not generalizable to us. Sorry to spew, but in short, yes I do believe that nolva and clomid can induce oculotoxicity, but the severity or permanence of the damage seems to be duration related. The mechanism by which it happens is no different in men than it is in women. Do the searches yourself if you have access to primary lit. There are many good sites that are offering full text articles free of charge (some after a certain time period). Pub-med/ovid is one of them. bmj.com, nejm.com and search for "free medical journals online" to find others. From here you can do your searching for the articles and come up with your own conclusions instead of reading heresay. But always read with an open mind, and never just read the abstract because this is exactly what the authors want you to believe. The truth lies in the methods section of the literature. Good luck, IC!

**halifaxsteve** · 09-15-2003, 12:35 PM

Clomid can cause transient vision problems (i have experienced blurred vision and tracers), but this is temporary and subsides when discontinued. However, my research indicates that if clomid is taken beyond 6wks, permant damage can occur.

ichabodcrane-excellent points, spoken like my old univ profs

i agree in consulting with the complete article, jounal, etc to make sure that the study was performed without bias, and that the sample size was sufficient, methods are correct and that the experiement can be duplicated.

i have posted excerpts from abstracts on here, but only after reviewing the entire article, and if i am satisfied that it suitable, and provides info pertaining to the question at hand

excellent post

**WiLLpOwEr** · 09-15-2003, 12:43 PM

Ichabod Crane=God

If he's not a vet no one is.

Insanely excellent observations.

I salute you.

By the way, I never had any vision problems with Nolvadex , just for the record. I took it for 4 weeks at 20mg every day both times I've used it.

***Sicilian30*** · 09-15-2003, 02:08 PM

IC basically dug up what I was referring to. Every drug has side effects some more noticable than others. Unfortunately this is one of the sides and is temporary if used moderately.

**johnsomebody** · 09-15-2003, 04:38 PM

Ichabod= God

Amen!

Because I'm an artist I was pretty worried about the possiblity of vision probs on Clomid, but the only thing I noticed was light sensitivity at night, as if my pupils were overdilated. Now that I've been off a week or so, it's cleared up.

**ichabodcrane** · 09-16-2003, 04:30 AM

Thanks you guys! Honestly I am just a struggling student with 8 years of school on the brain trying to finish up my degree. I am far from a God. I am modest and humble and you will never find me saying I am better than anyone on here, because I am not. We are all in this game together. I just love to be able to share the info I have been fortunate to learn. Everyone on this board is awesome, and AR is the best board with some of the best and most knowledgeable bros around. I didn't mean to go off on the lit review stuff. I just wanted people to know it is very important to understand what they are trying to get out of that certain article they may be looking at. Halifax brought up a good point which I sort of condemned. The abstract is useful in first deciding if the article is worth further pursuit. I just want you guys to be very careful in interpreting the results of studies. Interpreting the result of a study is not done by going to the discussion/conclusion section and quoting what the author(s) stated. It must be done with great care. Also, one could say that the oculotoxicity brought on by nolva/clomid is temporary when used short term, but we must consider that we usually use it in short cycles but on a more consistent basis. So IMO keep it short and sweet, and no longer than it has to be. Of course there will be people who will say they have used nolva/clomid non-stop and have never experienced any vision problems. That's great! But not everyone is the same, and everyone responds differently to any drug. It is really too bad, because both of these SERM's provide many great benefits when it comes to the protective effects that estrogens seem to provide (lipids, bones etc.) I have not researched the newer SERM's, so I don't know if they may be advantageous or not. Good learning project when I get some time. Anyways, thanks for the positive input guys!