quality gains vs. quantity gains

[DIRT09]

I have been thinking about this a lot. I am planning on doing a sust deca cycle, it will be my third. Then I got to wondering if it would be better to do a more safer quality cycle. I know I wont gain as much weight overall using say a var primo compared to a sust deca, but I will keep a better part of the previous. So my question to you guys are do you think doing lower quaility cycles are better than doing higher quantity cycles. I am interested to hear your responses.

Dirt

[Pheedno]

I always like lean gains. I don't like dbol or deca cause water weight is such a problem(even with anti-e's)
I'd much rather prefer to do test only, or couple some EQ, fina, var, etc for nice lean gains, with little to no water retension that is just dropping off at cycles end.


And who says you cant make quantity with quality. I'm up 22Lbs with a 1.5-2% drop in BF on my current and I don't use any AS that causes retension to the degree that the "mass" gainers do

[inheritmylife]

Pheedno, could we see the layout of your current cycle?

[daem]

I have been thinking about this a lot. I am planning on doing a sust deca cycle, it will be my third. Then I got to wondering if it would be better to do a more safer quality cycle. I know I wont gain as much weight overall using say a var primo compared to a sust deca, but I will keep a better part of the previous. So my question to you guys are do you think doing lower quaility cycles are better than doing higher quantity cycles. I am interested to hear your responses.

Dirt

imo, quality vs. quantity is a left-field concept that is subject to different interpretations.

quality v. quantity can manifest itself in either strength or mass. quantity mass can be increased significantly with drugs that are notorious for water retention, ie. anadrol , dbol while quality mass would be actual mass gains that do NOT come from water, like EQ or stanz.

your post cycle therapy , caloric intake, and diet will all dictate how much of your gains you actually keep. just running certain drugs will not yield great results if the former are not all in check

[Pheedno]

wk1-10 75mg Fina
wk1-25 625mg Enan
wk13-24 600mg EQ
wk16-27 75mg Fina

Not for the beginer.

I also agree with daem that both the quantity and quality are dictated by training, diet, and PCT. The more you know about those three factors in realtion to yourself, the better the gains will be on both the quantity and quality.


Another thing to consider is that most mass producing AS such as Deca , Drol, and dbol are love/hate drugs. I personally don't like them. If I'm retaining more than 5Lbs of water, I feel that I look like a sloppy SOB in the mirror. On the leaner producers such as Fina or EQ, I always look hard, with striations, and vascularity. Thats my ideal look

[t-rex]

hey pheedno, what does your diet look like, cal, carbs, fat, protein intake ect. The reason I am asking is because I like to stay pretty lean also and I am just curious

[Pheedno]

This was my begining diet:
8am:
2 Eggs
1/2 pint whites
1 cup oatmeal
8oz Chicken breast
Cals-775

11am:
2 Cups Pinto beans
8oz Chicken breast
Cals-660

2pm:
1 Cup oatmeal
1 can Tuna
Cals-500

4:30-Preworkout
3 scoops Whey
Cals-390

6:30pm
PW Shake
Apple
Cals-695

8pm
1-1/2 Cups Pinto Beans
8oz Chicken breast(Salmon & Snapper substituted 3x plus a week)
Cals-540

Wake up snack
1 cup Cottage cheese
Peach/Mango Salsa
Cals-140

Total 3,700
Carbs-437
Prote-355
Fats-55


Carbs cycled in 50 down to 150g, then back up to original. Fats replace carbs on the decrease besides the first 2 days of carb depletion.(this gives me a 200 cal deficit the first day, and 400cal deficit the second day)



Now, I'm doing a simpler plan. 2900 cals for 5 days, and then a calorie load up to 3400.
Protein is at 350
Fats at 50
Carbs at 260 on the 2900 cal days, 385 on 3400 cals days.

All carbs are from beans, oatmeal, and multi-grain hot cereal. Cannot stomach chicken anymore so i've switched to mostly fish, with some 96% lean beef a couple times a week.

Cardio is at 1 hour every morning 6 days a week, training at 6 days a week

[t-rex]

pheedno, Looks good I also am tired of chicken, fish can get old too, so now I am starting to grill round steak which is pretty lean, about as lean as chicken. other than that my diet looks similar, I try to take in about 2800cal, 320 gr of protein, keep my carb at 300 or below. I also incorporate one cheat day a week to keep me sane, and I eat anything I want as much as I want.

[Rookiejay]

......... So my question to you guys are do you think doing lower quaility cycles are better than doing higher quantity cycles. ...........

Dirt

I don't understand the question........

[Pheedno]

pheedno, Looks good I also am tired of chicken, fish can get old too, so now I am starting to grill round steak which is pretty lean, about as lean as chicken. other than that my diet looks similar, I try to take in about 2800cal, 320 gr of protein, keep my carb at 300 or below. I also incorporate one cheat day a week to keep me sane, and I eat anything I want as much as I want.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to eat home cooked chicken again. I gag trying to choke down 8-10oz. Fish is good as long as i change it up-Salmon, snapper, tuna, red fish, etc.
And the 96% lean beef isn't bad. 4g of total fat per serving.

Steaks are too expensive for me to buy all the time. Every once in a while, the grocery will have a huge meat sale when business is dropping, and toss out strips and flank for about $2-$3 per Lb. I stock up then.

[DIRT09]

I understand that there is a difference between lean muscle gains such as var, primo eq winny etc. And you can get probably higher mass gains with bulkers like sust deca d-bol. I was just wondering what you guys consider the better route to take. I also realize that once the cycle is over you need to train and eat just as seriously as when you are on to keep your gains.

bump

[ItalianMuscle]

I like being Lean.. Test , var , winny , EQ , Fina etc.. You can have both quality and quanity..

[Rookiejay]

I guess I'm missing something...

From what I understand the question is not quality vs. quantity ---

its low quality vs. high quantity - unless it's explained - the question doesn't make sense to me......

[ENraged]

I don't know if I'll ever be able to eat home cooked chicken again. I gag trying to choke down 8-10oz. Fish is good as long as i change it up-Salmon, snapper, tuna, red fish, etc.
And the 96% lean beef isn't bad. 4g of total fat per serving.

Steaks are too expensive for me to buy all the time. Every once in a while, the grocery will have a huge meat sale when business is dropping, and toss out strips and flank for about $2-$3 per Lb. I stock up then.

you arent worried about mercury

[ENraged]

I don't know if I'll ever be able to eat home cooked chicken again. I gag trying to choke down 8-10oz. Fish is good as long as i change it up-Salmon, snapper, tuna, red fish, etc.
And the 96% lean beef isn't bad. 4g of total fat per serving.

Steaks are too expensive for me to buy all the time. Every once in a while, the grocery will have a huge meat sale when business is dropping, and toss out strips and flank for about $2-$3 per Lb. I stock up then.

pheedno hate to be a bother but what does you workout look like i am trying to do pretty much the same thing but i am lowing the cabs more to try and push a more dramatic fat lose

[Nixter]

you arent worried about mercury

No, that whole mercury thing turned out to be a bit of a media hype/scare. The amount of fish you'd have to injest in order to even approach anything near toxic levels would be insane.

Nixter.

[Pheedno]

pheedno hate to be a bother but what does you workout look like i am trying to do pretty much the same thing but i am lowing the cabs more to try and push a more dramatic fat lose

Mon-Chest
Warm up
Incline Barbell- 3 sets, 6 reps or failure
Flat Barbell- 3 sets, 6 reps or failure
Decline Barbell- 3 sets, 6 reps or failure
Incline Flys- 3 sets, Failure

Tues- Shoulders
Side lateral- 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Front Press- 3 sets, 6 reps
Upright row- Superset wide/narrow grip 3 sets on 3 sets-6sets total

Wed- Quads/Calves
Narrow squat- 3 sets, 8,6,3
Wide Squat- 2 sets 3 reps
Extensions- 5 sets, 6 reps
Seated Raise- 3 sets, failure
Standing Raise dumbell isolation- 4 sets, failure

Thurs-Tris/Abs
Dips- 3 sets, failure(alternated with skull crushers wk to wk)
Skull crushers- 4 sets 4-6 reps(one warm up, low weight)
Close grip- 3 sets, 6 reps or failure
kickbacks- 3 sets, failure
Crunches 3 sets, failure

Fri- Back
Chins- 2 sets(one to start back day, one to end)
Deads- 4 sets 3-10 reps
Chest supported Rows(for rear delts*3 second pause) 4 sets, failure
Bent over row- 3 sets, failure
T-Bar- 4 sets, failure

Sat- Hams/Bis
Stiff leg- 4 sets, failure
Leg curl- 4 sets, failure
Barbell curl- 3 sets, failure
Incline curl- 3 sets, failure
Concentration curl- 3 sets, failure

Sun- Off




All sets with constant reps are using the same weight on all sets. The varied rep exercises constitute increased weight as sets are done. All sets to failure is done using the same weight on every set(besides warm up).