Low Test And Eq Benefitial

[LightWeightBaby]

Hey wanted to get people opinions anyone run something like this with pretty good results....
1-4 30mg ed
1-10 250mg test enanthate /week
1-10 200mg EQ

Wanted to see if a low does cycle would even be worth it

Stats:
Age 20
Ht 5'11"
wt 177
Training experience 5+ years

[Ambulance]

Hey wanted to get people opinions anyone run something like this with pretty good results....
1-4 30mg ed
1-10 250mg test enanthate /week
1-10 200mg EQ

I'm assuming 1-4 30mg ed is DBOL ?

Is this your 1st cycle? I'm not educated enough to give you info, I just wanted to help clear up the basics for the guys that will reply.

Good luck on your cycle bro

[JohnnyB]

Bro I wait about 4 years before starting a cycle. You'll be taking a chance of closing your growth plates and your hormonal sysytem isn't fully developed, so shutting it down at this point in your life wouldn't be a good idea.

JohnnyB

[Prot]

Growth plates at 20? Cmon. Arnold started at 13 or so and got over 6' tall. Others too.

This is a good cycle but dbol could be lowered to 20 mg and still be fine. In addition hepatoxiticity is way over rated and I would extend dbol usage to at least 8 weeks but take only 10 mg in AM for final 4 weeks.

[Polska]

You could get away with running the test at 250mg a week but I'd bump the EQ up to at least 400mg to get anything out of it. Also extend running both of them to 12 weeks.

[Ntpadude]

Your body is making probably as much testosterone now as it ever will. Also you might not be done growing your height, some people continue getting taller until about 24 years, sometimes 26.

At low doses of test, I think you might be simply shutting down your natural production of testosterone, but yet not taking enough to make a difference, essentially you have no more test in your body then you did before but now your balls are shrinking. At your age you should just go natural or maybe do some over the counter Andro prohormones to boost test levels during and after workouts.

I was reading that medically, men in their 30's are the ideal steroid patients. At age 35 your testosterone production is much below that at your age, so now 4/5 of the steroids we inject simply bring us to testosterone levels that "you have now" at age 20. Essentially a 38 year old man is shooting roids just to get what is natural in your body at your age! Also since our natural testosterone is already lower at our age, side effects and gyno is supposed to be much less of a problem to an older male then to one in his lower 20's. Your existing natural testosterone is more likely to convert to estrogen then the steroid suppliment, so gyno problems is more likely for you then older guys.

If you are despirate to gain weight/muscle, just increase your proteins, calaries, workout harder, it should come easily.

[Rickson]

[QUOTE=Prot
This is a good cycle but dbol could be lowered to 20 mg and still be fine. In addition hepatoxiticity is way over rated and I would extend dbol usage to at least 8 weeks but take only 10 mg in AM for final 4 weeks.[/QUOTE]

Why? I don't see the point of 10mg AM for 4 weeks while on other gear. Doesn't really make any sense to me.

[JohnnyB]

[QUOTE=Prot]Growth plates at 20? Cmon. Arnold started at 13 or so and got over 6' tall. Others too.QUOTE]

You have proof of that right? I think that's a BB myth. But let say he did, form what I understand he had a Dr that supervised him.

Estrgen is what closes your growth plates, that's why generally women are shorter because they produce more estrogen. With a cycle the chances of producing more estrogen are higher then not cycling. Say he does produce enough estrogen to close his plates, but only one closes, do you see the problem that could happen.

We haven't even talked about shutting down the hormonal system, which is still developing. Now if it doesn't recover, we're talking mood swings, depression, lose or lack of sex drive. The other thing about it at that age your moods can be going up and down because they're not stable yet.

I would suggest to anyone under 25 that wants to juice need to go to a Dr and see if his growth plates are closed.
JohnnyB

[TheMudMan]

[QUOTE=JohnnyB]

Growth plates at 20? Cmon. Arnold started at 13 or so and got over 6' tall. Others too.QUOTE]

You have proof of that right? I think that's a BB myth. But let say he did, form what I understand he had a Dr that supervised him.

Estrgen is what closes your growth plates, that's why generally women are shorter because they produce more estrogen. With a cycle the chances of producing more estrogen are higher then not cycling. Say he does produce enough estrogen to close his plates, but only one closes, do you see the problem that could happen.

We haven't even talked about shutting down the hormonal system, which is still developing. Now if it doesn't recover, we're talking mood swings, depression, lose or lack of sex drive. The other thing about it at that age your moods can be going up and down because they're not stable yet.

I would suggest to anyone under 25 that wants to juice need to go to a Dr and see if his growth plates are closed.
JohnnyB

Good advice and info.......... I waited untill I was 33 to start my first cycle. I know for a fact that my growth plates are closed by this age and I was most likely at my genetic limit if not close to it.

[johnsomebody]

Amen to all the above -anybody who's not making gains naturally at 20 is not eating/training/resting right and should learn how to get those right before even thinking of using gear.

LIke they said, you've already GOT that 250mg/wk of test naturally and it's not costing you a dime. Take advantage of it -it's not gonna be around forever.

[Prot]

[QUOTE=Rickson]

Why? I don't see the point of 10mg AM for 4 weeks while on other gear. Doesn't really make any sense to me.

10mg in AM still gives a good rise for the day in free test and other benefits of dbol without afffecting HPTA too much....The equipoise will increase hunger and eating is one key to growth... 250 mg of test will only make sure there is adequate test to grow on and will not affect anything adversely through aromatization or other sides. Most of the overly cautious on here must not know the millions who have used steroids in their teens without adverse impacts and are pulling out every antisteroid argument to use. Its just plain bullshit elitism by people who say its ok for "me" since I'm older and wiser. It discounts the experience of millions of users who used for sports and bodybuilding without major problems. This is a sane cycle without downsides for anyone.

Arnold monitored by a Doctor? What kind of doctor gives a 13 yr old steroids? Arnold used gym drugs like everyone else then. Casey Viator was Mr America at 19....think he was drug free? I don't understand what harm a 20 yr old would do by using this very gentle cycle? Go to a doctor to have growth plates checked? Sorry I am in my 50's and the same height as when I was 14. If someone has stopped growing they know it. You guys advising "natural training" are just elitists suggesting this guy spend his money on useless prohormones(which are more harmful than most injectables) instead of answering his question.

[usualsuspect]

10mg in AM still gives a good rise for the day in free test and other benefits of dbol without afffecting HPTA too much....The equipoise will increase hunger and eating is one key to growth... 250 mg of test will only make sure there is adequate test to grow on and will not affect anything adversely through aromatization or other sides. Most of the overly cautious on here must not know the millions who have used steroids in their teens without adverse impacts and are pulling out every antisteroid argument to use. Its just plain bullshit elitism by people who say its ok for "me" since I'm older and wiser. It discounts the experience of millions of users who used for sports and bodybuilding without major problems. This is a sane cycle without downsides for anyone.

Arnold monitored by a Doctor? What kind of doctor gives a 13 yr old steroids? Arnold used gym drugs like everyone else then. Casey Viator was Mr America at 19....think he was drug free? I don't understand what harm a 20 yr old would do by using this very gentle cycle? Go to a doctor to have growth plates checked? Sorry I am in my 50's and the same height as when I was 14. If someone has stopped growing they know it. You guys advising "natural training" are just elitists suggesting this guy spend his money on useless prohormones(which are more harmful than most injectables) instead of answering his question.

Wow, is this guy serious

Its one thing to have an opposing view on a subject but its another thing making statements that are detrimental to the board...

I hope my 14 yr old cousin doesn't see this...

[Prot]

Yes its sad when the "truth" is detrimental to the board. Every board is about the same..they don't want to be accused of saying its ok for teenegars to take steroids . Maybe its not..but puilling out the old lame anti steroid falsehoods is not the way to get the truth out.....Does anyone here dispute the fact that millions of teens have taken them without harmful sides? And my point is that this guy is 20 and should know if hes stopped growing in height.

[BUYLONGTERM]

Taking steroids while someone in there teens is ridiculous. end of story. Anyone giving advise to a teenager about steroids should be thrown in jail. We don't say this because we don't want to be "accused", We say it because The CONS outweigh the PRO's. And how is a guy at the age of 20 going to know for sure if his Growth plates are closed? Give me a break!!!!!

UNREAL.

[JohnnyB]

Yes its sad when the "truth" is detrimental to the board. Every board is about the same..they don't want to be accused of saying its ok for teenegars to take steroids . Maybe its not..but puilling out the old lame anti steroid falsehoods is not the way to get the truth out.....Does anyone here dispute the fact that millions of teens have taken them without harmful sides? And my point is that this guy is 20 and should know if hes stopped growing in height.

You have proof of this right? We'll see what happens when these millions of teens hit their 40's, then we'll know for sure if they had no side effects from juicing as teens.

It sounds like your a teen juicer or was one, if not then post your info so we can all see it. Do a search here on this board and you will find Bros in their teens and early 20's that juiced and had bad side effect. One being 19 or 20 and not being able to have sex, because their hormonal system got scwered up from juicing before it was fully developed.

Grant it their are those that have juiced in their teens and may not be able to associate a side effect to thier juicing, but thiers not many.

All we(I) do is try and guide someone to make a safest and healthy decision and waiting until your 24-25 is the number I use. Unless they go to a Dr and make sure they have stopped growing and developing. And even at that there's no guarantee that you/they won't have side effects.

I hear it a lot "I started when I was 19 and I'm ok" the problem is they're only 20 something when they make this statement. We'll know morw when they turn 40.

JohnnyB

[BUYLONGTERM]

You have proof of this right? We'll see what happens when these millions of teens hit their 40's, then we'll know for sure if they had no side effects from juicing as teens.

It sounds like your a teen juicer or was one, if not then post your info so we can all see it. Do a search here on this board and you will find Bros in their teens and early 20's that juiced and had bad side effect. One being 19 or 20 and not being able to have sex, because their hormonal system got scwered up from juicing before it was fully developed.

Grant it their are those that have juiced in their teens and may not be able to associate a side effect to thier juicing, but thiers not many.

All we(I) do is try and guide someone to make a safest and healthy decision and waiting until your 24-25 is the number I use. Unless they go to a Dr and make sure they have stopped growing and developing. And even at that there's no guarantee that you/they won't have side effects.

I hear it a lot "I started when I was 19 and I'm ok" the problem is they're only 20 something when they make this statement. We'll know morw when they turn 40.

JohnnyB

AMEN!!!! I could not of said it better myself.

[Prot]

I love guys on here taking three steroids and growth hormone saying someone else should be thrown in jail. I advocate freedom of choice for people. You seem to be in the hypocritical majority that thinks you have to be a certain age to do legal or illegal drugs such as tobacco, aklcohol, steroids, etc. I never advocated teens take steroids but it is nonsensical to not give a 20 year old decent advice on a mild cycle and then see someone post their cycles like no one could read them at the bottom of their posts and expect a teen couldnt draw their own conclusions.

[JohnnyB]

Mine were closed @ 17(I'm 22 now), checked by a physician who did a bone age on me. I had a bone age done on me every 3-4 months to monitor the space between the growth plates, from age 6-17. BTW, this was because I was born growth hormone deficient, and I had to have HGH treatment until my growth plates closed (@ 17).

Aside from my experiences/comments, I completely agree with you on waiting until your growth plates are closed, though I feel 21 is a safe enough age (I know some of you don't agree...). This is what age I started, because I steadily went from 155 to 198 naturally and then just hit a complete flat spot and couldn't seem to grow anymore. I can't speak for others, but I feel my body @ 21 was physiologically ready for AAS.

You're right everyone is different, that's why I think if you going to juice when under 24 get checked. 24-25 is a safe age to start if your not going to see a Dr. That way you know for sure they are closed. But starting to juice before that age without seeing a Dr is a crap shot, that you can be paying for the rest of your life.

JohnnyB

[BUYLONGTERM]

I love guys on here taking three steroids and growth hormone saying someone else should be thrown in jail. I advocate freedom of choice for people. You seem to be in the hypocritical majority that thinks you have to be a certain age to do legal or illegal drugs such as tobacco, aklcohol, steroids, etc. I never advocated teens take steroids but it is nonsensical to not give a 20 year old decent advice on a mild cycle and then see someone post their cycles like no one could read them at the bottom of their posts and expect a teen couldnt draw their own conclusions.

It has nothing to do with Freedom of choice. Why do people come to this board? For ADVICE. The best advise someone could give a person at that age is HOLD OFF. Your not going to get someone on this board giving advise to teenagers. And there really isn't any decent advise to give to a 20 year old except to hold off and wait

[trimunex]

...And my point is that this guy is 20 and should know if hes stopped growing in height.

Everyone is different Bro! I thought, like most guys, that I had stopped growing by the age of 20. However, little did I know I would grow 2 more inches between the ages of 20 to 22. At 6'0" tall and 20 years old, I had assumed I was as tall as I would get .. well, now 5 years later I'm 6'2".

So I wouldn't necessarily assume he knows he's not going to grow anymore.

[JohnnyB]

LightWeightBaby- Go to your doctor. Get a bone age done (all they do is x-ray your hands). Then, depending on the results, you can decide what to do from there...

That's a good and safe suggestion

JohnnyB

[Prot]

It has nothing to do with Freedom of choice. Why do people come to this board? For ADVISE. The best advise someone could give a person at that age is HOLD OFF. Your not going to get someone on this board giving advise to teenagers. And there really isn't any decent advise to give to a 20 year old except to hold off and wait

Advice is spelled advice. Advise is the verb.

[johnsomebody]

Advice is spelled advice. Advise is the verb.

Big deal. Hepatoxiticity is spelled hepatoxicity.

[johnsomebody]

No, actually it's spelled hepatotoxicity! Silly me.

[BUYLONGTERM]

No, actually it's spelled hepatotoxicity! Silly me.

[LightWeightBaby]

Well i think you guys answered my question in the first couple threads the rest is just complete rambling~thanks for the info I actually needed