My friends death, Part II

**BUYLONGTERM** · 09-29-2003, 02:16 PM

OK, From what I'm hearing, my friend died by injecting into the shoudler, not aspirating, and injecting into an artery? What are the chances of this, and is it actually possible?

**FzR600co** · 09-29-2003, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by buylongterm

OK, From what I'm hearing, my friend died by injecting into the shouler, not aspirating, and injecting into an artery? What are the chances of this, and is it actually possible?

--------------

I don't know enough about the injection question, but I did notice you were doing HgH, and I wanted to know how that was going for you, what have you noticed? Hit me back, because I have been looking everywhere for someone that does hgh.

-Jason

**xxxl83** · 09-29-2003, 02:21 PM

From everything I've ever heard or read it's highly doubtful.

xxxl83

**TheMudMan** · 09-29-2003, 02:22 PM

Wow........ did they give a amount that was injected into the artery? I have no idea if it's possible or not but this should be a wake up for everyone that there's always that possibility.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 09-29-2003, 02:27 PM

We don't know the amount, nor can I confirm 100% if thats the cause of death, but thats what I'm hearing. It's just that, shit, when I get flu shots, or any other shot in the shoulder, I don't recall them aspirating, but then again, who knows what size pin he was using....And Yes, that does freak me out!!!!

***JohnnyB*** · 09-29-2003, 02:33 PM

Damn, I didn't think it was possible.

JohnnyB

**dizzle** · 09-29-2003, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Damn, I didn't think it was possible.

JohnnyB

me neither

**BUYLONGTERM** · 09-29-2003, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Damn, I didn't think it was possible.

JohnnyB

I know, but thats what we've heard so far. My buddy talked to his Dr. and the first thing he thought the cause of death was from injecting into an artery in his shoulder.....He definitely died right after he injected.

**Prot** · 09-29-2003, 02:51 PM

the only possibility is an air bubble in the syringe went into the bloodstream..not the material itself.

**blazenbell** · 09-29-2003, 02:55 PM

how long after did he die after he injected

***Pheedno*** · 09-29-2003, 02:56 PM

Even with air, it would have to be a huge amount.

I think CYC posted up a story of a doctor who killed his wife that way and the cc amount was this unthinkable dose.

That explaination seems unlikely. I assume they'll be doing an autopsy?

I've injected into a vein before. How much actually got in there? I don't know, but it was a 2.5cc shot. I got light headed, started sweating bullets for a few minutes and almost passed out a couple of times.

If it's possible to die how they're saying, it's a first by me.

**palme** · 09-29-2003, 02:57 PM

So what happend? Did the oil clogg(sp) the artery so the bloodcirculation was cut off?

**markas214** · 09-29-2003, 03:07 PM

No way. I give hundreds of injections every month and it simply can't happen. If this was possible you'd have people dropping over from flu shots, tetnus shots,etc. There are no arteries major arteries in the delts anyway. Whoever you heard this from is simply wrong. Also arterial blood flows away from the heart. There is a thing called deep vein thrombosis, DVT,that if the clot breaks free could get into a lung and kill you but that again is veinous not arterial. I'd also like to know how his Dr got that information and why he would even believe it. If your friend died right after injecting then I would tend to think what he injected was a narcotic or potassium or some poison. AAS will not kill you even if they get into a vein. Anyone ever inject fina and hit a vein? It goes almost immediately into your lungs and will makes you cough for 20 minutes but is far from lethal.

**symatech** · 09-29-2003, 03:14 PM

everything I have ever read or hear has been that injecting into a vein will certainly not kill you. My friends brother used to be a pretty hardcore heroin addict. he used to talk about reusing needles, injecting air with his shit, and other things. Naturally he injected directly into a vein and he is still around. I think the reported cause of death is bogus.

**BigMike J** · 09-29-2003, 03:36 PM

the first person to inject 2cc worth of juice directly into their artery let me know.

**johnsomebody** · 09-29-2003, 05:45 PM

Wait a minute, here are a couple quotes from posts by Buffdoc on Steroidology, referring to aspiration...

"I don't do it with B-12, HCG , stuff like that, but with oil-based gear?! Crazy not to. A big, viscous oil embolism has the potential to kill you. It takes about 5 seconds for that stuff to hit the pulmonary artery. Be careful, it only takes one out of 10,000, half a second is worth it."

Then, after someone describes serious shortness of breath immediately after injecting oil-based gear...

"You're describing what I just mentioned in my previous post: a pulmonary oil embolus. You had a generalized, reactive pulmonary vasoconstriction, with an acute increase in pulmonary vascular resistance, putting a huge (but temporary) strain on the right ventricle of the heart. In someone with heart disease or a congenital defect, this could result in an AMI (heart attack). Probably experienced some secondary pulmonary edema, too (fluid in the alveoli or air sacs, hence the shortness of breath).
I hope everyone sees your post; this is nothing to fuck around with when you're injecting oils!! Aspirate , and then don't move it around while injecting."

I'm assuming the difference between things like innoculations and anitbiotics and most gear is that the former are not oil-based, hence no need for aspiration.

**markas214** · 09-29-2003, 07:25 PM

"I'm assuming the difference between things like innoculations and anitbiotics and most gear is that the former are not oil-based, hence no need for aspiration."

Oil based or not all IM injections need to be aspirated to ensure you are injecting into muscle where the drug is best dipersed for maximum effect.

Whether an IM injection of an oil based drug can cause a pulmonary embolism is debatable. As I said in my post, arterial blood flows away from the heart and also the lungs. If he hit an artery it would have to return through the veinous system and through the vena cava before reaching the right atrium, ventricle and finally the lungs. By this time I would imagine the oil has been pretty well dispersed in the blood. Lethality in my opinion is highly doubtful especially through a deltoid injection.

**WiLLpOwEr** · 09-29-2003, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by markas214

No way. I give hundreds of injections every month and it simply can't happen. If this was possible you'd have people dropping over from flu shots, tetnus shots,etc. There are no arteries major arteries in the delts anyway. Whoever you heard this from is simply wrong. Also arterial blood flows away from the heart. There is a thing called deep vein thrombosis, DVT,that if the clot breaks free could get into a lung and kill you but that again is veinous not arterial. I'd also like to know how his Dr got that information and why he would even believe it. If your friend died right after injecting then I would tend to think what he injected was a narcotic or potassium or some poison. AAS will not kill you even if they get into a vein. Anyone ever inject fina and hit a vein? It goes almost immediately into your lungs and will makes you cough for 20 minutes but is far from lethal.

This is my understanding also.

No way was it from a steriod injection.

Maybe another drug.

Again sorry about your loss BLT.

**longhornDr** · 09-29-2003, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Prot

the only possibility is an air bubble in the syringe went into the bloodstream..not the material itself.

It takes over 100 cc of air to have any noticable affect. I tried to see how much it would take to kill a sheep once and there was no change in vitals till I had injected over 300 cc into a vein.

**Dude-Man** · 09-29-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by longhornDr

It takes over 100 cc of air to have any noticable affect. I tried to see how much it would take to kill a sheep once and there was no change in vitals till I had injected over 300 cc into a vein.

i heard only 50cc of air will kill you.

http://www.healthlibrary.com/reading.../injection.htm

At any rate, i would say that if he hit a vein in the shoulder with enough juice, it could possibly result in an embolism. This is because the major vein in the shoulder is in close proximity to the heart. We should get Doc M in here to sort it out.

**Governor** · 09-29-2003, 08:06 PM

damn this is the first ive hear...sorry to hear about this bro....are they doing an autopsy? what gear was he {thinking} he was injecting?

**BUYLONGTERM** · 09-29-2003, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

Wait a minute, here are a couple quotes from posts by Buffdoc on Steroidology, referring to aspiration...

"I don't do it with B-12, HCG , stuff like that, but with oil-based gear?! Crazy not to. A big, viscous oil embolism has the potential to kill you. It takes about 5 seconds for that stuff to hit the pulmonary artery. Be careful, it only takes one out of 10,000, half a second is worth it."

Then, after someone describes serious shortness of breath immediately after injecting oil-based gear...

"You're describing what I just mentioned in my previous post: a pulmonary oil embolus. You had a generalized, reactive pulmonary vasoconstriction, with an acute increase in pulmonary vascular resistance, putting a huge (but temporary) strain on the right ventricle of the heart. In someone with heart disease or a congenital defect, this could result in an AMI (heart attack). Probably experienced some secondary pulmonary edema, too (fluid in the alveoli or air sacs, hence the shortness of breath).
I hope everyone sees your post; this is nothing to fuck around with when you're injecting oils!! Aspirate , and then don't move it around while injecting."

I'm assuming the difference between things like innoculations and anitbiotics and most gear is that the former are not oil-based, hence no need for aspiration.

How in the world would even know this??? I will keep everyone informed. I should know more on Thursday. But, If I was taking bets, I think the chances are very very slim that it was the actual injecting that killed him. I do know that he just got done working out. He was in the bathroom and yes he was injecting. But one thing we dont know is How long after the injection he died. Maybe he went into the bathroom because he was feeling strange. What we need to find out is how fast can injecting into a vein kill you??? We can speculate all we want, but again hopefully I will get the truth.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 09-29-2003, 10:36 PM

IS DOC around to help us out????

**Rhino58** · 09-29-2003, 10:40 PM

That is crazy, maybe he was shooting something other than gear.

***asymmetrical1*** · 09-29-2003, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by FzR600co

--------------

I don't know enough about the injection question, but I did notice you were doing HgH, and I wanted to know how that was going for you, what have you noticed? Hit me back, because I have been looking everywhere for someone that does hgh.

-Jason

Don't highjack, or attempt to highjack threads

**Dude-Man** · 09-29-2003, 10:57 PM

He's usually on once a day or so. I pmed him to give his opinion.

**OnDaJuice** · 09-29-2003, 11:17 PM

You said that he was on hgh. Any chance he could have been using insulin also? what about insulin in a vein?

**ddrew** · 09-30-2003, 12:15 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't milos sarcav(spelling) almost die when the syntohol he was injecting in his tricep went into a vein/artery and gave him a heart attack? It was something like that and it almost killed him, that much I know for sure

**RoNNy THe BuLL** · 09-30-2003, 12:23 AM

I think he injected into his pec and hit an artery, but nonetheless...BUMP on the Milos Sarcev situation...

**Juggernaut** · 09-30-2003, 06:27 AM

BLT, I'm curious about a couple of things; first off what was described as to his demise? (I don't mean to sound cold here bro so forgive me if it's painful to answer) Did he just drop? Was there a period of time that past when he had the reaction? Reason I ask is if it was do to the injection then I would guess a period of time would elapse before......... Could he have suffered an aneurism (sp)? Or a maybe a blood clot? The first one mentioned would have been instantaneous. Just wondering bro.

**majorpecs** · 09-30-2003, 06:46 AM

Hey BLT...do you know if he was using insulin in conjunction with his HGH? That stuff can be lethal.

**BUYLONGTERM** · 09-30-2003, 10:32 AM

Well, my buddy knows exactly what he was on and taking. From what I have been told so far, he died right after injecting, someone also had said something about a blood clot. He was only doing 4iu's of GH ED. I'm sure he was also doing some gear, but as of now, I do not know what he was on. Now I do know that he was injecting GH into his stomach (not shoulder) because months ago, he was doing it IM and I told him how he should be injecting sub-q in his stomach area. a few weeks ago, he told me thanks for the advice, and thats what he was doing. So we can rule that out. NO insulin . He definitely was not taking it. Again, I will be with his best friend on Thur. so I will know more then.

I'm just trying to see if we can put some pieces together of the puzzle.

1. No insulin
2. 4iu's of GH
3. I have heard about a blood clot, but I can't confirm that (to many people speculating)
4. Died shortly after injecting into his shoulder
5. no history of heart disease
6. He is a big boy, age 36 who has been doing gear for awhile, but from what I'm told doses were low.

**tryingtogetbig** · 09-30-2003, 10:45 AM

I've always aspirated before...will continue to do so. Doesn't seem likely that not doing it could kill you, but I've had many bros that know their stuff that say to aspirate everytime.

Again, sorry for your loss bro. I know finding some answers will help give closure.

**Dude-Man** · 09-30-2003, 12:21 PM

DOc will be posting this tonight.

**Go Time** · 09-30-2003, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by FzR600co

--------------

I don't know enough about the injection question, but I did notice you were doing HgH, and I wanted to know how that was going for you, what have you noticed? Hit me back, because I have been looking everywhere for someone that does hgh.

-Jason

Not meant to flame bro, but you need to read the threads about hi-jacking. Especially when Buylong has a thread with the severity of this one. PM him next time, i can't believe nobody jumped your shit for this. Again I am not trying to flame, just giving you some helpful advice. You can even PM me on GH(3 and 1/2 months use personally) Cool deal bro?

**Dude-Man** · 09-30-2003, 11:02 PM

or maybe he's not? He pmed me saying he'd be on this as soon as he got back from the office.. maybe got paged?

**BUYLONGTERM** · 10-01-2003, 09:06 AM

Well, once again, I have another update. We still don't know the exact cause, but my buddy (the guy who is best friends with the guy who passed away) was talking to his Dr. and his dr. said the chances of that happening are very very slim. So, he is convinced thats NOT the cause of death. We are waiting for the toxicology report. He did tell me that he believes he was doing wayyy to much GH in the past and had some organ growth issue?

**johnsomebody** · 10-19-2003, 01:32 PM

Hey BLT, have you learned anything more about your buddy?

Just wondering...

**Catamount** · 10-19-2003, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by OnDaJuice

You said that he was on hgh. Any chance he could have been using insulin also? what about insulin in a vein?

When using insulin or any other coagulant such as heparin you shouldn't aspirate and it is a subcutaneous injection so a vein isn't too much of a worry. As for the one who commented on the never seeing them aspirate with flu injections that f'cked up if they don't. I worked at a flu clinic last week and we all aspirated. Maybe they did and you didn't see it but if they don't then chew them out because they are supposed to!

**WoodChuck** · 10-19-2003, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Catamount

When using insulin or any other coagulant such as heparin you shouldn't aspirate and it is a subcutaneous injection so a vein isn't too much of a worry. As for the one who commented on the never seeing them aspirate with flu injections that f'cked up if they don't. I worked at a flu clinic last week and we all aspirated. Maybe they did and you didn't see it but if they don't then chew them out because they are supposed to!

this whole thread is ASININE. injecting anabolic steroids into a peripheral artery won't kill you. i don't care what you've heard and i'm not guessing like most of the people on this thread. i am and MD and i wonder if the so-called doc that told you this really went to medical school or if you're just making it up. i hate threads like this b/c it just spreads misinformation and serves to make people afraid.

btw - heparin is an anti-coagulant. there goes your credibility down the toilet.