figuring out first cycle;need criticisms

**sporto** · 10-11-2003, 07:17 PM

Hello lads.Im trying to decide on a cycle and Id like some of you more knowledgable members to give me some criticisms . my stats are as follows

(1.)30 years old. 5'11 ,195lbs at 12% body fat. no medical/healthprobs.
(2.)Training for 10 years on and off, currently (after 1 months training).
a.bench press 275max and 225 for 10 reps
b.squat 315max and 225 for 16 reps
c.deadlift 315max and 225 for 12 reps

My cardio is 3 miles in 17.30 mins. Ive always had a very athletic physique,always been an exceptional athlete (sponsored semi-pro skateboarder, state champ wrestler in h.s.,and pro mixed martial arts competitor until 1.5 years ago) have always had excellent cardio and above average strength/muscle tone develpment. The cycles that I am considering are .

(1.)d-bol 25mgs/day weeks 1-4.
(2.)testosterone proprianate 200mgs/week for weeks 1-10.
(3.) primobolan depot 150mgs/week for weeks 4-10.
(4.)winstrol depot 150 mgs/week for weeks 4-10.

How does this sound for a first timer? Should it be longer/shorter or is it
good as is.
What about my dosages? more/less or is it good ?
Should I start the primo/winny stack sooner or do it seperatly or what is best?

Ive been studying literature on A.S. for about two months and Ive concluded that
D-bol 4 weeks is safe/effective
t.prop is safest test to combine with D-bol to continue gains
and the Primo-Winny stack is safe and effective for adding quality to
new mass

Gaining stregth/quality muscle is my goal. from 195 to 210 at 8% b.fat would be ideal. Any criticisms will be appreciated.Thanks.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 10-11-2003, 07:21 PM

Whered you read test prop was safest? Its the same drug as test enanthate , TESTOSTERONE . Just a release time thats different.

25mg Dbol 1-4
400-500mg Test Enanthate/Cyp 1-10

+ your anti-estrogens. 20mg Nolva ED is fine. Dont forget Clomid. IF either of those terms are unfamiliar, hit the search or read the educational forums.

**sporto** · 10-11-2003, 08:01 PM

Thanks for replying Billy Bathgate. I read that test prop was safer ; it actually said "milder" in the ana.review profiles page it stated that t.prop was "better tolerated by the body" and retained less water than t.enth and t.cyp. It also stated that although the side effects are similar to t.enth and t.cyn that with t.prop they occur less frequently as long as dose is not very high. Hey what do you yhik about my Winny/Primo in weeks 4-10?

***JohnnyB*** · 10-11-2003, 08:29 PM

You need more then 1 month of training or 13 years of on and off. 2 years would be better for your joints and tendons.

JohnnyB

**sporto** · 10-11-2003, 09:30 PM

hey johnnyb . By on and off I meant 2-3 months of training to 2 weeks to 1 .5 months off for last ten years . Im a fomer personal trainer (2 years) and am quiet knowledgable on exc. and nutrition.Im not very know. regarding A.S. Can you tell me whats right or wrong with my proposed cyc?

**FrkyBgStok** · 10-11-2003, 09:41 PM

for a first timer i would recommend a test only cycle. Test should be he base of all cycles so you need to know how you react to it alone. I would go with 400-500mg test enan. or cyp. a week for 12 weeks. anti-es and PCT obviously. This would be your best bet in my opinion.

**depdaddy** · 10-11-2003, 09:45 PM

200 mg of prop is a wate..i would do 500mg of enanthate or cyp

**sporto** · 10-11-2003, 09:59 PM

One of the things Ive learned about A.S. in the past two months is that the majority of knowledgable,experienced users believe Test is the most important of them all. I agree that Test is integral and am almost certain of using it.Would it not be advisable to try the Dbol and the Primo/Winny.Ive also read alot about Primo/Winny combo bieng very effective for quality lean mass increases.What do you guys think?

**depdaddy** · 10-11-2003, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by sporto

One of the things Ive learned about A.S. in the past two months is that the majority of knowledgable,experienced users believe Test is the most important of them all. I agree that Test is integral and am almost certain of using it.Would it not be advisable to try the Dbol and the Primo/Winny.Ive also read alot about Primo/Winny combo bieng very effective for quality lean mass increases.What do you guys think?

if you can get primo (real) at a descent price...but why would you want to add d-bol which will cause major water bloat to primo and winnie...drop the d-bol...hit the test/winny/fina/eq..thats a good cutter

***50%Natural*** · 10-11-2003, 10:08 PM

That is probably going to be my next cycle actually.
Fina
EQ
Prop
Winny
I will figure out the doses. I am a little more experienced so I wouldn't necessary recommend this particular cycle to a first time user.

**sporto** · 10-11-2003, 11:01 PM

depdaddy, what Imeant ws Dbol weeks 1-4.Test prop weeks 1-10 and the primo/winny combo for weeks 4-10 (after the dbol phase is over).The reason Im leaning towards this cycle is for safety and to put on some size(not alot around 10-15,20 if lucky) but making sure its high quality lean mass.Ive read Tprop is the mildest Test,dbol is safe up to 4 weeks at 25mgs a day and that primo/winny are considered amongst the weakest and lightest steroids on the body.Give me some substantiated criticism on each phase 1.dbol 2.t-prop 3.primo/winny . Good criticism from anybody will be appreciated ; as a new member Im trying to learn as much as I can.Thanks.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 10-11-2003, 11:20 PM

Its your first cycle. Test only is what you need, dbol the first 4wks would be acceptable. Test wont really kick in till 5-6wks anyways so many throw it in to start things off.

You need to see how test affects you.

I wouldnt waste my time or money on primo unless it was free. Its faked alot, overpriced, and over rated. It gets hyped a lot because people new to the game find out its low in sides and for some reason think testosterone is near lethal. The problem is, the good effects are also low. I know of only, oh maybe 1 or 2 people that I would consider expert users that would even consider using it. EQ is somewhat similar and much cheaper and available.

I hate winny. I wont use it anymore. Shitty gains from it and lots of sides, mainly prostate stress, hairline, and the terrible joint pain.

**goldenear** · 10-11-2003, 11:25 PM

I'll add a few comments...when you say prop is the mildest, you really should be thinking about consistent blood levels. Like BB said, test is test once the ester is removed. By injecting a smaller dosage more frequently, you are making it easier on your body, but that's not due to the ester, it's due to your dosing strategy.

Second, winny is definitely not light on your body. That drug will destroy your lipid panel very quickly.

My general read is that you're trying to shove too many compounds into your first cycle. When things start happening, you won't be able to pinpoint which drug(s) is/are causing them to happen.

With your stated goals, I'd recommend a simple 6-week stack of dbol /test prop or var/test prop. If you want to read a more thorough post on the first cycle topic, PM me and I'll shoot you a copy.

**sporto** · 10-12-2003, 12:18 AM

billybathgate- I was private mailed the rcommendation of (1.)dbol w 1-4. (2.)tprop w1-10. (3.)equipoise w 4-10. What do you think about that.Do you think that cycle will give good results according to my goals of gaining some strength,moderate mass ,and good quality lean mass.? Also should I consider doing a shorter cyc , something like 6-8 weeks since this is my first cyc.I did 2 weeks of A-50 and followed by 2 weeks of d-bol a year ago with ver good strength gains (I dont consider thi a true A.S> cycle) had no side effects except a v.good attitude for the four weeks on. The p.mailer also stated that "winny' sometimes has neg. side effects ie. sore joints, hairline.

Goldenear- I agree with your opinion that Im shoving too mant compounds into my first cycle . Im a bit over excited and do feel I was getting a bit carried away. Thanks for putting me in check . I see alot of younger guys coming on here and over doing it. I definetly dont want to do that. With age comes wisdom (30y.o.) and I usually know when to be cool. What do you think about the dbol,tprop,equi program . Good or no good?

**clockworks** · 10-12-2003, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by sporto

(2.)testosterone proprianate 200mgs/week for weeks 1-10.

common test prop dosages are like 100mg everyday, or 100mg every other day. 200mg/week is >much< less than that, i don't think it will do anything. i'm gunna run mine at 75mg ED or 100mg ED, haven't decided yet.

-- clocky baby

***50%Natural*** · 10-12-2003, 02:12 AM

Run this:
wk 1-11 400mg eq(shoot mon, thurs)
wk 1-10 500mg enanthate (shoot mon, thurs)
if you want:
dbol 1-4 30 or 35 mg a day
then pct
I think this is the best cycle for you looking at your options if you want to throw in dbol and eq for your first cycle. There is always the option of test only...as if it hasn't been mentioned. Good luck on whatever you decide is forthcoming.

**sporto** · 10-12-2003, 04:17 AM

50%natural.Good name. The cyc you recomend sounds like what it will be.Just a few questions.Do you know anyone who has proceeded with this cycle? And if so,what were thier results ; negative and positive? Is the test enth really that much better than the testprop? My pri.messengers are split 3 to 2 in favor of the t.enth (these guys sound like experienced A.S. trainees)Also a number of people favoring the Eq. over the winny and primo.As of this writing Im beginning to settle on (1.)dbol 25-35mgs/ week1-4 or 5 (2.)T.prop or T.enth 400-500 /week 1-10 or 12(3.) Eq. 300-400mg/week 1-10 or 12.A bit more info Id like to give about myself perhaps helpful and perhaps not; Im currently 5'11 195 @ 12% b.fat but I have been up to 225 lbs. and carried it well although chubby with a pudgy face, I can eat alot always have been able to since childhood and always gained lbs fast, muscle and water . Having said that I dont want to get my b.weight above 210-215 maximum @ around 7-10% b.fat. Would the doses I stated in ths post mass me up much beyond my objective weight (210-215) more or less? Any data from experienced ,knowledgeable sources regarding my proposed cyc in this post will be appreciated (neg and pos) thanks.

**sporto** · 10-12-2003, 04:43 AM

Oh yeah one more thing I wanted to say.Why Im so in to taking a cutting-type compound like(winny,primo,eq.)during my cycle along with the dbol and test.In mid march I'll be going to Miami and Brazil and and I want to look hard and on point beach-body wise( cut , lean) when I get down thier .Also going to see an ex-girl after 3 years and want to be looking diesel for that occasion also.Dont want to have big and watery- smoothed out muscle tone.Wouldnt care if I were going to be up here in the D.C. area all winter; in fact Id prefer it since it gets so damn cold and ice/snow in Jan to mid March I could always use the insulation.