Cutting Cycle a Myth?

I have read numerous posts on the site that suggest that gaining muscle and losing fat are almost mutually exclusive in a trained individual. Specifically, I have read that using AS to "cut" from high bodyfat levels is ineffective. Conversly, several members have posted truly inspiring photographs of their results using AS that seem to indicate that AS does help fat loss.

My personal opinion, currently untested, is that AS do help to cut but not because of an increase in conventional metabolism. Although I have no scientific proof of this I believe the following:

When trying to lose weight we all know that calories deficit is the botom line that dictates how much weight you lose. The overall ratio of fat to muscle loss is the key issue. In a normal diet situation involving a thermogenic, aerobic excercies, and a nutritionally sound (macronutrient raio and meal frequency etc.) but calorically restricted diet results in a high loss of bodyfat and minimal to moderate loss of muscle tissue. I think that given the addition of AS to the aforementioned "diet" parameters, that the minimal to moderate loss of muscle tissue becomes a minimal loss to moderate gain in muscle tissue.

I want to know what everyone thinks about this subject and the specific mechanisms they feel are involved that support their opinion on the subject. The anecdotal evidence that I have collected sure seems to indicate that a cycle of AS could really accelerate someone to their fatloss goals... I have done a couple bulking cycles that rocked but then got a serious injury that put me totally out of the gym (barely walking) for over 6 months. Combined with a new job that has me working 60-80 hours a week, I balloned up! I wish my appetite would have gotten injured :). Anyway, I am about 6'4" 295 lbs and about 25% bf by skinfold measurements.

***Is it possible to loss muscle tissue during certain times of the day while dieting and then have an offsetting or even greater muscle gain due to AS following a workout/optimal recovery meal or during rest?***

***What is your experience with cutting cycles?***

***What did you or the individual you know about do for his cycle?***

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigdog23

I have read numerous posts on the site that suggest that gaining muscle and losing fat are almost mutually exclusive in a trained individual. Specifically, I have read that using AS to "cut" from high bodyfat levels is ineffective. Conversly, several members have posted truly inspiring photographs of their results using AS that seem to indicate that AS does help fat loss.

My personal opinion, currently untested, is that AS do help to cut but not because of an increase in conventional metabolism. Although I have no scientific proof of this I believe the following:

When trying to lose weight we all know that calories deficit is the botom line that dictates how much weight you lose. The overall ratio of fat to muscle loss is the key issue. In a normal diet situation involving a thermogenic, aerobic excercies, and a nutritionally sound (macronutrient raio and meal frequency etc.) but calorically restricted diet results in a high loss of bodyfat and minimal to moderate loss of muscle tissue. I think that given the addition of AS to the aforementioned "diet" parameters, that the minimal to moderate loss of muscle tissue becomes a minimal loss to moderate gain in muscle tissue.

I want to know what everyone thinks about this subject and the specific mechanisms they feel are involved that support their opinion on the subject. The anecdotal evidence that I have collected sure seems to indicate that a cycle of AS could really accelerate someone to their fatloss goals... I have done a couple bulking cycles that rocked but then got a serious injury that put me totally out of the gym (barely walking) for over 6 months. Combined with a new job that has me working 60-80 hours a week, I balloned up! I wish my appetite would have gotten injured :). Anyway, I am about 6'4" 295 lbs and about 25% bf by skinfold measurements.

***Is it possible to loss muscle tissue during certain times of the day while dieting and then have an offsetting or even greater muscle gain due to AS following a workout/optimal recovery meal or during rest?***

***What is your experience with cutting cycles?***

***What did you or the individual you know about do for his cycle?***

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interesting thread.

while i believe that the results of a true mass cycle and cutting cycle cannot be achieved simultaneously, i firmly believe (as i have seen) it is possible to bulk with some fat loss, or cut with muscle gain.

although i lack hard scientific evidence to support my theory, i will suggest it.

typically, a caloric deficiency would stimulate a catabolic process, which is unsparing to muscle tissue. AAS allows you to sufficiently cut your caloric intake (compared with your BMR), to allow fat loss, without comprimising muscle. a cycle based on test and T3, would allow you to create a deficit, while preserving muscle. AAS usage helps to combat this catabolic stimulus and preserve muscle, if not build it simultaneously.

It would also appear that some AAS auctually cause your BMR to rise (ie EQ, fina), considering the ability to eat immense amounts of food without gaining fat (or as much as one would typically gain).

anyone else?

Have no idea, but this post deserves a bump to the top.

while your response is just a theory halifax, it does seem quiet logical. However, if you were to take eq or fina and not eat a calorie overload, would you lose that fat that you have? I do not think so, but like you guys have said i have no proof and have yet to run eq or fina (both in next cycle starting nov.) Although i do not think AAS is a fatburner, certain AAS could in turn raises BMR (in theory), and assist it immensely. Maybe not?

I think you're right on the money with this one. I've heard lots of arguments that the reason Winny is used to "cut up" is not because it magically burns fat - but instead is a remarkable anti-catabolic (for muscle tissue) during times of caloric deficit. You would assume the same rationale would apply. Personally, i've used AS in the past - and my results have been 1)an incredible increase in strength 2) a substantial weight gain and 3) a loss of BF...so your argument makes sense to me...

I'm interested to see how the vets react to this...what's their thoughts?

I the fat loss apparent while on the cycle? I seem to be carrying quite a bit of bloat (wne tfrom 9% to 13% BF measured by Bioimpedance) and am not looking like my lean self - although I'm a hell of alot bigger and thicker. So my BF is higher now, will it be lower once the bloat leaves.
Just looking for clarification on how/when you notice a decrease in body fat, on the cycel or after the cyce.

PS - I'm on decca and test prop - still pretty bloated.