hey guys
i just thought of this and decided to ask. i doubt it can, but is there even a sleight possibility that clomid itself can cause gyno? i know it is a weak anti-e but it still is an estrogen (estradiol). what do you think?
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hey guys
i just thought of this and decided to ask. i doubt it can, but is there even a sleight possibility that clomid itself can cause gyno? i know it is a weak anti-e but it still is an estrogen (estradiol). what do you think?
I asked the same thing about Nolva.
What's the answer? :scratch:Quote:
Originally Posted by bermich
It shouldn't since it acts as an anti-e in breast tissue.
were you talking about clomid or nolva? b/c i was asking about clomid. thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickson
WTF? First nolva then clomid. Whats going on here? Anyone think this could be true because this doesn't seem like a joke.
:crushed:
I'd like to know myself.
i thought getting gyno symptoms during PCT wasnt unusual since your test levels would be low and estrogen still high if you didnt run something like femara or arimidex through out the cycle?
thats why alot of guys run nolva right through PCT along with clomid or femara/or arimidex.
peaker
no to both.
nolva blocks estrogen, and it's effects on breast tissue. it would defeat it's own purpose if it had estrogen like effects on breast tissue.
This is why using Nolva durring PCT is good idea. I like using anti-e's from the start. They keeps estrogen levels from rebounding as your test levels are low. It helps in HPTA recover and keeps estogen related sides at a minimum.
To answer your q's no I don't think it's possible.
thanks guys but i have one more question that has been confusing me for a while. if clomid and nolva both fight for the estrogen receptor, then how are they both having an effect on the body? wouldn't only one of the two be effective in the body? this is probably a stupid question.
No, they are still both beneficial. Both bind to the estrogen receptor but 1. Doses which we use are not going saturate the ER and 2. Upregulation will take place in which new receptors are produced with saturation.
Their is no receptor competition with hormones. Steroids bind to the AR, and "anti-e's" bind to the ER. Both endure an upregulation process with saturation.
Rebound is your only chance of gyno during PCT. This is why nolva is a good idea to include in conjunction with clomid.
thanks pheedno. that was a good explanation. could you just explain the upregulation process to me though? i am not sure i understand it. thanks again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheedno
Recptors are small molecules. In steroids case, the AR(androgen receptor) is a molecule inside the muscle which androgens(supplemented or natural) bind to and get dierection for usage.
Receptors saturate due to the surge in Testosterone(or whatever AS) that far exceeds our natural production. When saturation takes place, the body creates more receptors. This process is upregualtion.
Upregualtion works the same way with the ER(estrogen receptor), only I doubt saturation would ever come into play.
Very Good Info Pheedno
Thanks Pheedno, feedno bullshit.
:)
Doc
oh, now i understand. thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pheedno