gains are slow. any help is appreciated.

OK, I'm 25, 6'3", 180 lbs, about 10-11% bf presently.

In week 6 of 10 weeks on Test Enath @ 500 mg week.

I have gained about 8 lbs. some of it fat. I suspect that I should be seeing better gains by now so I am looking for advice on what to tweak. I am looking a little thicker, but true muscle definition is still eluding me.

TRAINING: I have cut cardio to 1 day a week (3-4 mile run @ 8 min mile pace). I train with weights 3 days a week. Monday is chest and shoulders, Wednesday is bi and tri (arms), and Friday is legs and back. I do about 4 exercises per body part for at least 3 sets with heavy weight for low (8-10) reps.

DIET: Eating whenever I am hungry. Detour bar after every workout. Protein shake at wake and before bed. Lots of snacking on tuna and almost every meal includes a large chicken breast... mmm, I admit I have had problems being consistent with this. I eat out a lot at moderately fancy restaurants... meaning they give hearty portions of fairly healthy food (unlike fast food).

SLEEP: have not been sleeping as well as I would like because I am in the beginning of what I hope to be a serious relationship (no, she doesn't know about the gear). My mind races a lot at night and I think my quality of sleep is suffering because of it. I am still trying to get 8 hours a night, but I usually wake up 2x a night. On the positive side, since I am already awake I find my way to the kitchen to get my grub on. ;)

RECREATION: I drink no more than 2 glasses of wine at a time, and it is only 2 times a week at most. I don’t smoke or use any other recreational drugs (anymore, hee hee). Basically, my recreation includes fooling around with my lady friend(s) and watching TV or reading.

Any thoughts on what I can/should change? :scratch:

100571

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Originally Posted by 100571

OK, I'm 25, 6'3", 180 lbs, about 10-11% bf presently.

In week 6 of 10 weeks on Test Enath @ 500 mg week.

I have gained about 8 lbs. some of it fat. I suspect that I should be seeing better gains by now so I am looking for advice on what to tweak. I am looking a little thicker, but true muscle definition is still eluding me.

TRAINING: I have cut cardio to 1 day a week (3-4 mile run @ 8 min mile pace). I train with weights 3 days a week. Monday is chest and shoulders, Wednesday is bi and tri (arms), and Friday is legs and back. I do about 4 exercises per body part for at least 3 sets with heavy weight for low (8-10) reps.

DIET: Eating whenever I am hungry. Detour bar after every workout. Protein shake at wake and before bed. Lots of snacking on tuna and almost every meal includes a large chicken breast... mmm, I admit I have had problems being consistent with this. I eat out a lot at moderately fancy restaurants... meaning they give hearty portions of fairly healthy food (unlike fast food).

SLEEP: have not been sleeping as well as I would like because I am in the beginning of what I hope to be a serious relationship (no, she doesn't know about the gear). My mind races a lot at night and I think my quality of sleep is suffering because of it. I am still trying to get 8 hours a night, but I usually wake up 2x a night. On the positive side, since I am already awake I find my way to the kitchen to get my grub on. ;)

RECREATION: I drink no more than 2 glasses of wine at a time, and it is only 2 times a week at most. I don’t smoke or use any other recreational drugs (anymore, hee hee). Basically, my recreation includes fooling around with my lady friend(s) and watching TV or reading.

Any thoughts on what I can/should change? :scratch:

100571

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What anti-e's are you running? You are in week 6, you should be seeing considerable gains. Sounds like your diet is in order, and your workouts seem ok, although i would up the frequency and intensity. What is your protein intake? Needs to be in the 200-300 range. Sleep is very important, in order to grow you must sleep. Up your intensity, protein, and make sure you get 8-10 hours of sleep a night..If you do all that and no gains, time to look at your gear.

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Originally Posted by asymmetrical1

What anti-e's are you running? You are in week 6, you should be seeing considerable gains. Sounds like your diet is in order, and your workouts seem ok, although i would up the frequency and intensity. What is your protein intake? Needs to be in the 200-300 range. Sleep is very important, in order to grow you must sleep. Up your intensity, protein, and make sure you get 8-10 hours of sleep a night..If you do all that and no gains, time to look at your gear.

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I am running L-Dex at .5 mg day... sometimes I skip it b/c I really don't need THAT much arimi in my system. My protein intake is probably around the 175-200 g/day range. I am not too excited about workign out mroe than I already do b/c I was a hard gainer without test and it was easy for me to overtrain. I am 99% sure that the gear is legit. The brand is RT, and the source has done me right in the past when I ordered winny. I'm thinking the sleep is lacking and maybe I need more protein.... although I seem to poop out any more protein than I am eating right now.

So, I'm not crazy thinking that I shoudl be seeing mroe than 8 lbs by now?


Keep the opinions coming, bros!

no, you aren't crazy. cut the ldex to .25, up the protein, and sleep and see what happens. I firmly believe, while on gear, overtraining is impossible. While on cycle, I quit sets and reps when i can't take the pump anymore

I would say that your gains may have been slow by the fact that your using a long acting ester (enathate) without a shorter acting compound i.e. propionate/dbol. This would account for early on during your cycle but as your at week 6 you should be getting better gains than that.

What about having a shake after your workout instead of a bar so that you can get a larger volume of calories in post-workout with a fast acting whey, then a meal soon after

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Originally Posted by Bigun

I would say that your gains may have been slow by the fact that your using a long acting ester (enathate) without a shorter acting compound i.e. propionate/dbol. This would account for early on during your cycle but as your at week 6 you should be getting better gains than that.

What about having a shake after your workout instead of a bar so that you can get a larger volume of calories in post-workout with a fast acting whey, then a meal soon after

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yeah, I think I am goign to start havign protien shake with every meal. I eat the detour bar after the workout b/c I can have it RIGHT after toe work out on my drive home from the gym. Then I usually eat another meal within a hour or two af teh workout. I guess I shoudl start drinking shake like crazy and maybe up the workout intensity/frequency. Well, I'm off teh the gym right now (missed yesterday's workout).

500mg a week isn't even that much, even for a first cycle... realize your body naturally produces about 250mg a week... some people have even higher natural production.. so perhaps you are one of the lucky few who have above average test production... which means that you will require higher dosages of test to notice gains... (otherwise your gear is fake)

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Originally Posted by Pinch

500mg a week isn't even that much, even for a first cycle... realize your body naturally produces about 250mg a week... some people have even higher natural production.. so perhaps you are one of the lucky few who have above average test production... which means that you will require higher dosages of test to notice gains... (otherwise your gear is fake)

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Wtf...your body produces somewhere around 70mg/wk not 250mg

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Originally Posted by D3m3nt3d

Wtf...your body produces somewhere around 70mg/wk not 250mg

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u sure? i wasn't completely positive on 250mg, but i think there is no set amount, its dependent on age, or genetics i suppose

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Originally Posted by Pinch

500mg a week isn't even that much, even for a first cycle... realize your body naturally produces about 250mg a week... some people have even higher natural production.. so perhaps you are one of the lucky few who have above average test production... which means that you will require higher dosages of test to notice gains... (otherwise your gear is fake)

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Doubtful, he's 25, 6'3 and 180.....

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Originally Posted by D3m3nt3d

Wtf...your body produces somewhere around 70mg/wk not 250mg

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Yep, he is correct. It's somewhere around 70mg a week, or 10mg a day on average.


I also think 500mg a week of test for a first cycle is plenty...

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Originally Posted by buylongterm

Yep, he is correct. It's somewhere around 70mg a week, or 10mg a day on average.


I also think 500mg a week of test for a first cycle is plenty...

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Then i assume his lack of gains is due to his diet... here is what he wrote:

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DIET: Eating whenever I am hungry. Detour bar after every workout. Protein shake at wake and before bed. Lots of snacking on tuna and almost every meal includes a large chicken breast... mmm, I admit I have had problems being consistent with this. I eat out a lot at moderately fancy restaurants... meaning they give hearty portions of fairly healthy food (unlike fast food).

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doesn't sound like enough food to me... hell i eat 9 meals a day, about 4000 cals.... WHEN IM OFF-cycle and i still see slow gains...

when on-cycle bulking you should be a eating machine, 5,000 cals easily... remember it takes 3,500 cals for 1 lbs.... and depending on how big you are, your body burns a lot of calories... so i say to go about 2k cals over your maintence level

at that height and weight, and at that bodyfat i don't think the cardio is helping at all. If you are in a growth stage, then let yourself grow. you need all the calories you can. you mentioned you're a hardgainer and most of us (i'm a hardgainer too) have a hard enough time getting all our calories for growth. so, i'd cut the cardio for now, up the protein to minimum of 200g protein per day, and do the shake post wk out instead of bar, try to rest more. and six weeks is where i usually start to notice my gains. week eight is always my best, so be patient.

Yeah, I was going to say when people aren't happy with results, the first thing they blame is the gear.

Give it a couple more weeks and you'll most likely see some considerable gains. Its not unusual to see the most gains in th last few weeks.

From what i read, i think you should drop the cardio completely and start a 5 day split working each muscle individually. You can always cut up easy after a cycle.

As for your diet try making a chart with everything that you eat throughout the day with the pro, carb, and fat listed and check it off as you eat each meal. After awhile it becomes routine. Try and get about 4500 cal if you can, its a lot of food the body becomes use to it. Good luck.

sorry Pinch, I just realized how sarcastic my response sounded..didn't mean it that way. My bad bro.

Higher intensity cardio, like running 3-4 miles at one time, will have an adverse effect on muscle hypertrophy. Best to do low intensity cardio for 30 mins 3 days a week. Keep the running for post cycle. It took me awhile to give up the cardio, but it worked.
Also, I don't think that you are getting enough cals at enough times during the day. You need to be eating 6 times and getting at least 4000 cals. 200g of protein at least. Try having a shake in the middle of the night when you get up to pee because of the 2 gallons of water you are taking. :D

Make a protein shake at night before you go to bed, then when you wake up in the middle of the night slam it down. Then, have a whey protein shake as soon as you wake up. Within 30 minutes of finishing your workout, you should have a protein shake with at least 40 grams of protein and about 75 grams of simple sugars. Then eat a regular meal with plenty of protein and complex carbohydrates within the next two hours after workout. You should also drink a slow acting protein shake(casein) before you go to bed. Eat meals every three hours during the day or substitute with protein shakes. In other words, eat even if you don't want to, but eat clean.

It looks like you're getting a lot of good advice already but all I would add is that it could help you a lot to take the time to count up just how many calories and grams protein/day you're getting. I'm 6'5" and 240 and I think I shortchanged myself on my one cycle so far by only going 3800 cals/day while doing a fair amount of mild cardio. I'd also recommend at least 1.5 grams protein/lb bodyweight -if you're not keeping track you should start.

I also agree that 3 days/ week may not be enough though it depends on how long each workout is. I sure wouldn't be afraid of overtraining at his point -you're on gear!! Take advantage of it! Knock yourself out!

Personally I wouldn't give up on the cardio but I'd follow the suggestion above at 30 min/max 3X week, and not pushing it too hard.

Good luck!

ok, guys. thanks for all of the feedback! I think I am goign to start a 5 day a week routine working smoething like:
mon chest
tue legs
wed back
thu shoulders
fri arms

I have noticed that I can lift hard and heavy with little rest between sets for a hour. I couldn't come close to doing that before test. Also, I really don't get sore. I didn't know that it was imposible to overtrain on gear.

I'll up the protien, and save the cardio for post-cycle (or if I go over 15% bf) Right now, I'm getting 3,500 calories on a "light" day and close to 4500 on a good day. I think the problem is that not enough of the calories are from protein... and sometimes not enough calories all together. I figure I need about 3500 just to maintain my current weight. I really don't want to blame the gear. I think the problem lies somewhere in my routine or diet.

question:

when should I eat the detour bars if not right after a workout?

as far as cardio goes... if I run for just 30 minutes that is at least 3.5 miles. I really have to slow down my pace. Am I better off just running a couple of miles at a 6:30-7:00 pace?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 100571

I am running L-Dex at .5 mg day... sometimes I skip it b/c I really don't need THAT much arimi in my system. My protein intake is probably around the 175-200 g/day range. I am not too excited about workign out mroe than I already do b/c I was a hard gainer without test and it was easy for me to overtrain. I am 99% sure that the gear is legit. The brand is RT, and the source has done me right in the past when I ordered winny. I'm thinking the sleep is lacking and maybe I need more protein.... although I seem to poop out any more protein than I am eating right now.

So, I'm not crazy thinking that I shoudl be seeing mroe than 8 lbs by now?

Keep the opinions coming, bros!

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Are you taking creatine? I am taking 10-15 grams a day with my cycle and its making me burst out all over and putting me into fear of getting stretch marks... I too am on l-dex so primarily the only thing growing is the muscle, very little in the way of fat...

I think you need more then detour bars, I think you need some whey protein shakes and weight gainer shakes... Also these things can have the tendancy to spoil your appetite so what I do is drink the shake "as the drink with a real meal"..... also dont get chocolate flavored stuff... it has caffiene and keeps creatine from working.

A 16 oz mix of weight gainer has 30 grams of protein and about 700 calaries, this is a great thing to drink with a regular meal... drink one with a Wendy's double burger and fries and there you go, 2200 calaries and some 100 grams of protein just in an easy to swallow lunch!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 100571

ok, guys. thanks for all of the feedback! I think I am goign to start a 5 day a week routine working smoething like:
mon chest
tue legs
wed back
thu shoulders
fri arms

I have noticed that I can lift hard and heavy with little rest between sets for a hour. I couldn't come close to doing that before test. Also, I really don't get sore. I didn't know that it was imposible to overtrain on gear.

I'll up the protien, and save the cardio for post-cycle (or if I go over 15% bf) Right now, I'm getting 3,500 calories on a "light" day and close to 4500 on a good day. I think the problem is that not enough of the calories are from protein... and sometimes not enough calories all together. I figure I need about 3500 just to maintain my current weight. I really don't want to blame the gear. I think the problem lies somewhere in my routine or diet.

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I don't think it's impossible to overtrain on gear but I'm sure it's WAY less likely than when not, epecially if you're getting enough sleep. You def have noticed the effects in recuperation, which is what it's supposed to do.

If you're not already familiar with it I'd recommend whey isolate as the best-absorbed and most efficient source of protein. I buy the pure stuff at proteinfactory.com, which I like better than Isopure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 100571

I am running L-Dex at .5 mg day... sometimes I skip it b/c I really don't need THAT much arimi in my system. My protein intake is probably around the 175-200 g/day range. I am not too excited about workign out mroe than I already do b/c I was a hard gainer without test and it was easy for me to overtrain. I am 99% sure that the gear is legit. The brand is RT, and the source has done me right in the past when I ordered winny. I'm thinking the sleep is lacking and maybe I need more protein.... although I seem to poop out any more protein than I am eating right now.

So, I'm not crazy thinking that I shoudl be seeing mroe than 8 lbs by now?


Keep the opinions coming, bros!

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you just named it right there...
175-200g/day of protein? you should be aiming for 400g...
and cut out the cardio... whats the point of that?
if you're worried about pooping cut out the carbs and throw in protein...
helped me by also adding 2 spoons of olive oil in with my TWO protein shakes i took during the day

as a hardgainer its very easy to overtrain on gear too... your workout seems ok... i think its your diet... i'd just slam down more protein for a week and see what happens :)