Progressive Cycles

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10-27-2003, 07:42 PM
sonhouse

Progressive Cycles

This is something that I have been giving a lot of thought to lately. Its all based in theory. I am not saying that this is how it is but food for thought. Makes sense to me though.

How often have you seen people mention that there best gains are made early in their cycles...such as the first 4-6 wks?

In most 10 week cycles I don`t see this as a problem. Now as many people are gravitating towards cycles averaging 20 wks or sometimes more it becomes much more questionable.

It seems that it becomes more important to force or trick to body into growth by playing with increasing dodes and changing up the AAS within the cycle.
This is not a pyramid cycle....just stimulas ones muscles in order to extend growth beyond the for 4-6 wks that receptors are fresh.

An example might be instead of the common cycle which is simple yet losing some affectiveness such as
WK 1-20 Test 750 EW
WK 1-20 EQ 600EW
WK1-4 to 6 D-bol 50ED
As your body becomes use to the doses your using--causing the tailing off of gains... maybe try a cycle which changes up dosages and drugs so as to "force" or trick your recptors into being like the first 4-6 wks though out.
Examples might be like this.
WK 1-10 Test-E 750 EW
WK 1-10 Deca 400ew
Wk 1-4 D-bol 50 ED
Then onto
WK 11-15 Test-e 1000 EW
WK 11-15 Tren 100 EOD
Wk 11-15 Drol 50 ED
Lastly
WK 16-20 Test-E 1250EW
WK 16-22 Tren 100 ED
WK 16-22 Winnie 50 ED

Granted there are problems with some AAS`s being run too close to eachother and maybe you prefer Diff AAS`s.
This is just hypothetical!

My though is by bumping dosages and inserting diff AAS`s you should effectively be able to "trick" the body into continued growth such as in the first 4 wks or so. The body is keep off guard and recptors are seeing either diff steriods and/or diff dosages hopefully stimulating growth.
This is much the same as changing your routine in lifting. In other words like changing reps and/or exercises to stimulate growth and staying out of a rut.
I`ve seen longer and longer cycles lately(I like 20 wks myself) but many people follow the keep it simple idea which has its place. It seems to me in MHO that over 20+wks that the body would adapt to the AAS`s use and especially the dosages.

This is just my thoughts and I have no real world proof that this is so. Logic says to me there may be some validation here.

OK, Let me here your thoughts.
10-28-2003, 01:07 AM
Grant

I have experimented with my cycle with advice from Big Kev and I started fluctuating between 600 and 800 and going lower and higher and lower and higher, and I noticed better strength increase than cycles that were were level.
10-28-2003, 01:56 AM
TheSevnthWarrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonhouse

This is something that I have been giving a lot of thought to lately. Its all based in theory. I am not saying that this is how it is but food for thought. Makes sense to me though.

How often have you seen people mention that there best gains are made early in their cycles...such as the first 4-6 wks?

In most 10 week cycles I don`t see this as a problem. Now as many people are gravitating towards cycles averaging 20 wks or sometimes more it becomes much more questionable.

It seems that it becomes more important to force or trick to body into growth by playing with increasing dodes and changing up the AAS within the cycle.
This is not a pyramid cycle....just stimulas ones muscles in order to extend growth beyond the for 4-6 wks that receptors are fresh.

An example might be instead of the common cycle which is simple yet losing some affectiveness such as
WK 1-20 Test 750 EW
WK 1-20 EQ 600EW
WK1-4 to 6 D-bol 50ED
As your body becomes use to the doses your using--causing the tailing off of gains... maybe try a cycle which changes up dosages and drugs so as to "force" or trick your recptors into being like the first 4-6 wks though out.
Examples might be like this.
WK 1-10 Test-E 750 EW
WK 1-10 Deca 400ew
Wk 1-4 D-bol 50 ED
Then onto
WK 11-15 Test-e 1000 EW
WK 11-15 Tren 100 EOD
Wk 11-15 Drol 50 ED
Lastly
WK 16-20 Test-E 1250EW
WK 16-22 Tren 100 ED
WK 16-22 Winnie 50 ED

Granted there are problems with some AAS`s being run too close to eachother and maybe you prefer Diff AAS`s.
This is just hypothetical!

My though is by bumping dosages and inserting diff AAS`s you should effectively be able to "trick" the body into continued growth such as in the first 4 wks or so. The body is keep off guard and recptors are seeing either diff steriods and/or diff dosages hopefully stimulating growth.
This is much the same as changing your routine in lifting. In other words like changing reps and/or exercises to stimulate growth and staying out of a rut.
I`ve seen longer and longer cycles lately(I like 20 wks myself) but many people follow the keep it simple idea which has its place. It seems to me in MHO that over 20+wks that the body would adapt to the AAS`s use and especially the dosages.

This is just my thoughts and I have no real world proof that this is so. Logic says to me there may be some validation here.

OK, Let me here your thoughts.

It's gettin' late, I'll add more later, but check out Example Cycles #3, #5, and #9 on this Sites "Cycles and Stacking" page, you don't have to copy them, but you'll get the idea. I am about ready to start one very similar in structure to #5.
10-28-2003, 02:48 AM
The Natural

I dont want to steal this thread, but I was wondering if this is a good stack-up aswell...

Wk 1-5:
test - 125mg EOD
deca - 100mg EOD
EQ - 100mg EOD
dbol - 60mg ED

wk 6-10:
test - 250mg EOD
deca - 200mg EOD
EQ - 200mg EOD

wk 11-15:
test - 375mg EOD
deca - 300mg EOD
EQ - 300mg EOD
Winny- 100mg ED

wk 15-17:
winny- 100mg ED

wk 18-20:
PCT
10-28-2003, 02:52 AM
Grant

I like the test progression, although going high and then back down has been effective for me, that's a lot of deca to be going that high with, that part is questionable in my opinion, i personally just adjust the test levels
10-28-2003, 02:53 AM
The Natural

BTW...

Has anyone else tried upping dosages with cycle length? Was it good contra the equal ammount thru?
10-28-2003, 02:55 AM
The Natural

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant

I like the test progression, although going high and then back down has been effective for me, that's a lot of deca to be going that high with, that part is questionable in my opinion, i personally just adjust the test levels

I thought of that too... maybe cut down deca a bit...
10-28-2003, 02:57 AM
Grant

yeah, that would be a hell of a progesterone problem, i have ran a longer cycle when i adjusted my test levels to answer you question, that's the true test if adjusting the levels is effective
10-28-2003, 02:57 AM
The Natural

OK... new dosages:

Wk 1-5:
test - 125mg EOD
deca - 100mg EOD
EQ - 100mg EOD
dbol - 60mg ED

wk 6-10:
test - 250mg EOD
deca - 150mg EOD
EQ - 200mg EOD

wk 11-15:
test - 375mg EOD
deca - 200mg EOD
EQ - 300mg EOD
Winny- 100mg ED

wk 15-17:
winny- 100mg ED

wk 18-20:
PCT
10-28-2003, 02:58 AM
Grant

how many cycles have you done?
10-28-2003, 03:00 AM
Grant

son house, i hope you don't mind this interaction but you spawned a new question that drew my interest......and watch the eq dosage too....keep in mind in a given week with deca@200 eod, you could be up to 800mg, so i would go max 150 eod, try running the cycle a little bit longer if this isn't your first
10-28-2003, 03:24 AM
The Natural

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant

son house, i hope you don't mind this interaction but you spawned a new question that drew my interest......and watch the eq dosage too....keep in mind in a given week with deca@200 eod, you could be up to 800mg, so i would go max 150 eod, try running the cycle a little bit longer if this isn't your first

My second cycle...

Hmmm.. I have already fixed myself 8000mg deca... and this is my ABSOLUTE FINAL cycle (I'm gonna get married!!! :D ), so I need to use it all!!! (or almost all) ;)

the Grand Total ammount is:

test - 13250mg
deca - 7150mg
EQ - 9400mg
Winny- 4900mg

Average pr. wk:

test - 883mg
deca - 510mg
EQ - 671mg
Winny- 700mg

Looks OK for me...

I am also gonna do HCG in weeks 8-10, and then PCT... :D
10-28-2003, 03:40 AM
MBaraso

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Natural

My second cycle...

Hmmm.. I have already fixed myself 8000mg deca... and this is my ABSOLUTE FINAL cycle (I'm gonna get married!!! :D ), so I need to use it all!!! (or almost all) ;)

the Grand Total ammount is:

test - 13250mg
deca - 7150mg
EQ - 9400mg
Winny- 4900mg

Average pr. wk:

test - 883mg
deca - 510mg
EQ - 671mg
Winny- 700mg

Looks OK for me...

I am also gonna do HCG in weeks 8-10, and then PCT... :D

800mgs of deca per week is going to make your hair fall out. Trust me I've seen it. I think deca is best when run for 12-15 weeks @ 600mgs (not for the first or second time).
And for your 2nd cycle I suggest you go for 12 weeks max (especially when trying new compounds)
Keep the dosages the same cuz when your blood levels are steady that's the way you grow...I see what your saying, and I've seen ppl try this but "most" of the time it won't work. Everyone's different though...
10-28-2003, 04:32 AM
The Natural

Quote:

Originally Posted by MBaraso

800mgs of deca per week is going to make your hair fall out. Trust me I've seen it. I think deca is best when run for 12-15 weeks @ 600mgs (not for the first or second time).
And for your 2nd cycle I suggest you go for 12 weeks max (especially when trying new compounds)
Keep the dosages the same cuz when your blood levels are steady that's the way you grow...I see what your saying, and I've seen ppl try this but "most" of the time it won't work. Everyone's different though...

OK! Thanx for your advice... I'll run it without bumping up...

My old cycle layout:
250mg test ED
150mg Deca ED
200mg EQ ED
10-28-2003, 04:45 AM
The Natural

but again... more opinions???
10-28-2003, 05:07 AM
Stone

I like the idea of switching up compounds throughout an extended cycle like the examples, always worked better for me than just one steady dose of one compound. But switching from cyp to enanthate isn't changing compounds. Your just changing the half life of your test about 2 days. Other than that, for a heavier cycle I like it. Two orals throughout for a jump and a nice base.
10-28-2003, 07:06 AM
The Natural

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stone

I like the idea of switching up compounds throughout an extended cycle like the examples, always worked better for me than just one steady dose of one compound. But switching from cyp to enanthate isn't changing compounds. Your just changing the half life of your test about 2 days. Other than that, for a heavier cycle I like it. Two orals throughout for a jump and a nice base.

Hmmmm...
so maybe this is a good stack-up then...

test wk 1-15 - 250 EOD
deca wk 1-10 - 200 EOD
EQ wk 4-14 - 200 EOD
win wk 11-17- 100 ED
Tren wk 11-14- 50 ED

TOTAL:
test - 13250mg
deca - 7000mg
EQ - 7600mg
Winny- 4900mg
Tren - 1400mg

Here I am switching from one comp. to another... seems like a smart layout... which one of my 2 do you guys prefer?
10-28-2003, 02:30 PM
markas214

Sonhouse my current cycle is similar to you last example without the dbol. Long cycles should have a mix as the benefits of a particular compound begin to fade. Test should be used the entire cycle and the others run to their maximum length of effectiveness limited by side effects. My next move is finding the right bridge betwwen long cycles as I want to keep moving forward, or at least not backward between cycles for a year or two.
10-28-2003, 02:38 PM
trimunex

lol .. Bro, at first as I was checking out the post I thought you had nabbed it from someone else. Then, I saw the 'AKA Double J' in your sig and realized .. that's where I saw this before. I was getting ready to call you out, thank god I looked the whole thing over.
10-28-2003, 04:48 PM
sonhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by trimunex

lol .. Bro, at first as I was checking out the post I thought you had nabbed it from someone else. Then, I saw the 'AKA Double J' in your sig and realized .. that's where I saw this before. I was getting ready to call you out, thank god I looked the whole thing over.

No please not into the light! :D

Even though I don`t post much I`ve been a member a long time and picked sonhouse before I decide to stick to DOUBLE J.
I`m glad this thread is being fairly well received. Thanks bro`s "DOUBLE J"
10-29-2003, 10:16 PM
DIRT09

for natural: why fo the test e, deca and eq eod? thats just a waste of needles in the ass, and as far as d-bol dont do it eod do it everyday. And I think your doses are a bit high. 100 mg a day of winny?!, say hello to sore joints and like someone else said that much deca will cause some unwanted sides. Just my 2 cents.
10-30-2003, 03:34 AM
The Natural

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIRT09

for natural: why fo the test e, deca and eq eod? thats just a waste of needles in the ass, and as far as d-bol dont do it eod do it everyday. And I think your doses are a bit high. 100 mg a day of winny?!, say hello to sore joints and like someone else said that much deca will cause some unwanted sides. Just my 2 cents.

I totally understand ya...

BUT! I have talked to the big guys on the forum, and I now got this layout to go for:

Dbol wk 1-5 : 60mg ED
250mg test Enanthate EOD - 15wks
200mg EQ EOD - 14wks
150mg Deca EOD - 14wks
oral win wk 11-17 : 100 ED
Tren wk 11-17 : 100 EOD

wk 9: day 1- 2500iu HCG day5- 2500iu HCG
wk 18-20: PCT

The winny is so high because I am doing both deca and Tren... so that dosage is for progrestorone protection! ;) And I have never said that I'll do dbol EOD... maybe a typo...
10-30-2003, 04:19 AM
Billy_Bathgate

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonhouse

This is something that I have been giving a lot of thought to lately. Its all based in theory. I am not saying that this is how it is but food for thought. Makes sense to me though.

How often have you seen people mention that there best gains are made early in their cycles...such as the first 4-6 wks?

In most 10 week cycles I don`t see this as a problem. Now as many people are gravitating towards cycles averaging 20 wks or sometimes more it becomes much more questionable.

It seems that it becomes more important to force or trick to body into growth by playing with increasing dodes and changing up the AAS within the cycle.
This is not a pyramid cycle....just stimulas ones muscles in order to extend growth beyond the for 4-6 wks that receptors are fresh.

An example might be instead of the common cycle which is simple yet losing some affectiveness such as
WK 1-20 Test 750 EW
WK 1-20 EQ 600EW
WK1-4 to 6 D-bol 50ED
As your body becomes use to the doses your using--causing the tailing off of gains... maybe try a cycle which changes up dosages and drugs so as to "force" or trick your recptors into being like the first 4-6 wks though out.
Examples might be like this.
WK 1-10 Test-E 750 EW
WK 1-10 Deca 400ew
Wk 1-4 D-bol 50 ED
Then onto
WK 11-15 Test-e 1000 EW
WK 11-15 Tren 100 EOD
Wk 11-15 Drol 50 ED
Lastly
WK 16-20 Test-E 1250EW
WK 16-22 Tren 100 ED
WK 16-22 Winnie 50 ED

Granted there are problems with some AAS`s being run too close to eachother and maybe you prefer Diff AAS`s.
This is just hypothetical!

My though is by bumping dosages and inserting diff AAS`s you should effectively be able to "trick" the body into continued growth such as in the first 4 wks or so. The body is keep off guard and recptors are seeing either diff steriods and/or diff dosages hopefully stimulating growth.
This is much the same as changing your routine in lifting. In other words like changing reps and/or exercises to stimulate growth and staying out of a rut.
I`ve seen longer and longer cycles lately(I like 20 wks myself) but many people follow the keep it simple idea which has its place. It seems to me in MHO that over 20+wks that the body would adapt to the AAS`s use and especially the dosages.

This is just my thoughts and I have no real world proof that this is so. Logic says to me there may be some validation here.

OK, Let me here your thoughts.

if you stop making gains after the initial 4-6wks when it kicks in, in all honesty you (anyone) dont truly know what your doing.

you dont need to change the dosages at all. you could leave them the exact same the whole time. in fact, the better reason to myself to change compounds is not because gains stop, but because you have different goals or would like a different effect. NOT becuase your gains stopped.

if your gains stop to the point you feel like its cause your gear quit working, or your receptors got saturated (lmao) check your diet and training.
10-30-2003, 02:47 PM
sonhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

if you stop making gains after the initial 4-6wks when it kicks in, in all honesty you (anyone) dont truly know what your doing.

you dont need to change the dosages at all. you could leave them the exact same the whole time. in fact, the better reason to myself to change compounds is not because gains stop, but because you have different goals or would like a different effect. NOT becuase your gains stopped.

if your gains stop to the point you feel like its cause your gear quit working, or your receptors got saturated (lmao) check your diet and training.

I agree that you should gain thoughout. There does seem to be a window the fist 4-6 weeks were gains are coming easier. This is excluding the water weight which of course a large % that many novices report.

Diet seems to always be the king of all variables in anyones program.
This "theory" is not meant to correct poor deit and/or training but a possible tool to help excite the body in to maximum growth and to stay away from homostasisis(SP) WERE THE BODY ADAPTS TO THE GEAR.
You have a valid point. I`m thinking about fine tuning the results not a cure all for poor planning.

As the DOORS so elagantly put it "Break on though to the other side!"
Of course as originially mentioned this is just a theory. I can`t prove it. Just idel thoughts. DJ