potential first cycle, expert opinions please

Printable View

10-30-2003, 05:05 PM
bmfgsxr

potential first cycle, expert opinions please

stats: 30 yrs. old, lifting for 13 years. 6' tall, currently 195lbs. decent shape, but not like i was a few years ago at my peak. diet is ok, and when lifting i take in about 150 grams of protein a day, with a fair balance of carbs and fats. lots of water intake. ive had tendonitis for years. but the past few years it acts up more than it used to. i get about 6 good months of lifting then im down on recovery time. i take glucosamine daily, and currently on vioxx. within the next couple weeks ill be back to lifting again, and im thinking around the new year to start a first cycle. ive been doing a shit load of reading on this site and others and this is what im thinking of.

1-10 deca @ 200mg weekly
1-10 test cyp. @ 500mg weekly
11-13 hcg 2000 iu e5d
12 nolva 40mg ed
13-15 nolva 25mg ed

now for an anti e im thinking arimidex, or liquidex, but im not sure when i should throw it in, and how long. i know a lot of guys say .5 arimidex ed for the full cycle, but is that neccessary? also, because of my joints im dead set on deca, and everyone suggests test for a first cycle (especially to fight the effects of deca dick). im not looking to put on huge weight, just 15lbs would be good, and if i keep 8-10 id be happy. im only looking to get back to the condition i was in a few years ago without waiting a year for the gains. thanks for any help. also, what are your guys thoughts on creatine while cycling?
10-30-2003, 05:16 PM
DADDYDBOL

I would switch the deca for eq. Throw some dbol in to jumpstart it. Deca is overrated and you would need to bump the dosage anyway to at least 400mg.
10-30-2003, 05:18 PM
DADDYDBOL

Even better cyp and tren.
wk 1-10 500mg cyp
wk 1-10 400mg eq
wk 6-10 75mg tren ed
10-30-2003, 05:18 PM
sp9

Sounds like a lot of gear for a first time and if you want only 15lbs I think you could get away with test only and your anti-e's, proper diet, workout and Post cycle therapy including nolva and clomid.

You would want enough nolva for 20mg per day during your weeks of test in case you get any gyno symptoms and also enough to run for 17 days after your last shot while test is leaving your system, and then another 21 days while doing clomid therapy of 300mg/1 day 100mg/10 days 50mg/ 10days. Get a bottle of liquidex and run about .25ml per day to start and if you feel any gyno sides you could increase to .5ml per day while upping nolva from 10-20mg per day to 40mg until symptoms change.

1-10 test cyp 500mg
wait 17 days after last injection to start clomid and nolva pct.

enough nolva for 20mg for 108 days.
and 1800 mg total of clomid.

I am just on a second cycle so I will bump for more of an expert opinion. good luck.
Have seen many experts here say hcg is not needed for relatively short cycles like this.
10-30-2003, 05:19 PM
bmfgsxr

Quote:

Originally Posted by DADDYDBOL

I would switch the deca for eq. Throw some dbol in to jumpstart it. Deca is overrated and you would need to bump the dosage anyway to at least 400mg.

from all the research i have done deca pays the most love to the joints. and im set on that already. but im not opposed to bumping the dosage. i got the 200mg from here:http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cattestc.htm

Testosterone is the most powerful compound there is, so obviously its perfectly fine to use it by itself. With a long-acting ester like Cypionate doses of 500-1000 mg per week are used with very clear results over a 10 week period. If you've ever seen a man swell up with sheer size, then testosterone was the cause of it. But testosterone is nonetheless often stacked. Due to the high occurrence of side-effects, people will usually split up a stack in testosterone and a milder component in order to obtain a less risky cycle, but without having to give up as much of the gains. Primobolan, Equipoise and Deca-Durabolin are the weapons of choice in this matter. Deca seems to be the most popular, probably because of its extremely mild androgenic nature. But Deca being one of the highest risks for just about every other side-effects, I probably wouldn't advise it. If Deca is used, generally a dose of 200-400 mg is added to 500-750 mg of testosterone per week.
10-30-2003, 05:20 PM
Red Ketchup

Bro, I used deca @ 200mg wk in my first test/deca cycle. It is just enough to make you hold water (which is what I wanted to lube a blown shoulder) but barely any gains from it.

Deca 400mg/wk + test-e or cyp 500mg/wk is really a rock solid "standard" cycle. U can't go wrong.

You may also want to add dbol 25mg/ed for wks 1-3 to start the cycle.

As for Adex, I am a firm beleiver in using it from day 1 (0.5mg ed or eod depending on you). Why take chances with gyno?

Oh btw bro, you'll need to work on your diet... 150gms of protein at 195 lbs is nowhere near enough. You should be getting 1.5 (natural) to 2 (on gear) gms of protein per lbs of weight. Thats 292 to 384 grams per day! (yes that is a lot... but you need it)

Red
10-30-2003, 05:20 PM
DADDYDBOL

Yeh 15lbs isn't much to gain and creatine is crap.
10-30-2003, 05:24 PM
DADDYDBOL

Yeh deca will help with joint pain so if thats your angle still bump it so you can get some good gains. I also agree that protien has to really go up. To be honest 15lbs can be achieved naturally in less than a year. At your height 210-215 would look good.
10-30-2003, 05:24 PM
Red Ketchup

Quote:

Originally Posted by DADDYDBOL

I would switch the deca for eq.

Actually if I understood him right, he wants the deca more for therapy (blown joints) and thats a decent idea. Worked well for me.

Tren on his first cycle? Hmmm not sure here... I love tren myself (hell it's a gift from the gods and guess what went in my shoulder this morning!? :) ) but I am not sure I'd suggest it on a first cycle, it's a bit harsh. The ED shots alone would be enough to scare most newbies :)

Red
10-30-2003, 05:27 PM
DADDYDBOL

Yeh Red the shots would be a bit much but I thought to lean him up after the test and deca. I think he will gain a little more than 15lbs if his diets right.
10-30-2003, 05:28 PM
Red Ketchup

Ok DaddyD, stop reading my mind!!!! :D Telepathy typing is scary! ;D

Red
10-30-2003, 05:30 PM
DADDYDBOL

It takes a great mind to know a great mind ( ;
10-30-2003, 05:32 PM
DADDYDBOL

To answer your question though all of these are really good ideas but you know your body better than us and it sounds like you have done some training so just absorb it all and do what you feel is safe.
10-30-2003, 05:34 PM
Madmax

run it different. some may say 12 weeks is to long for a first cycle, but ive known many to run there first 12 weeks...no need for hcg at those doses...run nolva for pct....Madmax

test cyp 500mg (1-13)
eq 400mg (1-12)
winstrol 50mg ed (10-15)
10-30-2003, 05:35 PM
DADDYDBOL

Thanks Madmax.
10-30-2003, 05:41 PM
Madmax

oh and up your protien to atleast 1.5g per body pound....especially if your cycling...MM
10-30-2003, 05:49 PM
bmfgsxr

1 Attachment(s)

great replies i appreciate the educated help. i want to stay away from winny since it dries up the joints, and is a derivitive of dht. i have a full head of hair, but i wouldnt want to increase my chances of loosing it with something like that. im also not opposed to gaining more than 15lbs. if i gained more then so be it. im over the "i want to be huge stage" since that is what blew out my shoulders at a young age anyway.

i also am not feeling the ed darts either. lol. once a week is fine for me. i know, i could gain 15 solid lbs. in a year with good diet and hard training, and im not afraid of that at all. but, the joint thing bugs me. and really, i never thought of seriously doing gear until a good friend of mine (who is well educated in gear, and has won competitions before) told me i should think about some deca to help me get through a season of lifting. id really like the cycle to put on the weight quickly while keeping my shoulders in check with the deca. then just keep lifting to stay strong and fit. and when my cycle would be done my lifting wouldnt have to be as intense to maintain where i was. the body is like a balloon, once you blow it up to a certain size once its much easier to get there again.(muscles have memory). i minored in fitness and nutrition in college and from what i remember between the beer is you need 1 gram of protein per bodyweight/kg for hypertrophy. but i guess its much different when on the juice. thanks again for the info. anyhow, this is a pic when i was feeling good. (always been natural)
10-30-2003, 06:05 PM
Methuselah

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfgsxr

stats: 30 yrs. old, lifting for 13 years. 6' tall, currently 195lbs. decent shape, but not like i was a few years ago at my peak. diet is ok, and when lifting i take in about 150 grams of protein a day, with a fair balance of carbs and fats. lots of water intake. ive had tendonitis for years. but the past few years it acts up more than it used to. i get about 6 good months of lifting then im down on recovery time. i take glucosamine daily, and currently on vioxx. within the next couple weeks ill be back to lifting again, and im thinking around the new year to start a first cycle. ive been doing a shit load of reading on this site and others and this is what im thinking of.

1-10 deca @ 200mg weekly
1-10 test cyp. @ 500mg weekly
11-13 hcg 2000 iu e5d
12 nolva 40mg ed
13-15 nolva 25mg ed

now for an anti e im thinking arimidex, or liquidex, but im not sure when i should throw it in, and how long. i know a lot of guys say .5 arimidex ed for the full cycle, but is that neccessary? also, because of my joints im dead set on deca, and everyone suggests test for a first cycle (especially to fight the effects of deca dick). im not looking to put on huge weight, just 15lbs would be good, and if i keep 8-10 id be happy. im only looking to get back to the condition i was in a few years ago without waiting a year for the gains. thanks for any help. also, what are your guys thoughts on creatine while cycling?

Nolva would the anti-e. I'd do the cyp 400mg weeks 1-11; deca 200mg weeks 1-10; hcg 1000iu ed for 10 days starting at week 13; use the nolva with the cycle as needed and 20mg ed with the hcg. Split up the test/deca into 2 shots per week of 1/2 weekly dose of each; no need for 4 shots, put both in the same syringe.
10-30-2003, 06:18 PM
Red Ketchup

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfgsxr

i also am not feeling the ed darts either. lol. once a week is fine for me.

Actually on a deca400/test500 WK cycle, you'd be shooting 2x per week. (something like Mon - Thu) Makes for much more stable blood hormone levels as well as more maneagable injections.

200mg deca and 250mg test in one syringe will come out to 2 to 3 cc's (depending on the brand of product concentrations, but 200mg/cc for deca and 250mg/cc for test are popular). A 2-3cc inject 2x a week is decent.

Impressive pic bro!!!! I can see you're no spring chicken when it comes to weight training.

Red
10-30-2003, 06:25 PM
bmfgsxr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Ketchup

Actually on a deca400/test500 WK cycle, you'd be shooting 2x per week. (something like Mon - Thu) Makes for much more stable blood hormone levels as well as more maneagable injections.

200mg deca and 250mg test in one syringe will come out to 2 to 3 cc's (depending on the brand of product concentrations, but 200mg/cc for deca and 250mg/cc for test are popular). A 2-3cc inject 2x a week is decent.

Impressive pic bro!!!! I can see you're no spring chicken when it comes to weight training.

Red

thanks. and more good info from you guys on 2x/week for blood hormone levels. as i stated above, if i do take the step to run a cycle, it will be at or around the new year, so i still have plenty of time to research, and learn more. but it gets exiciting to start putting together a plan. now, i have time to perfect it.
10-30-2003, 06:31 PM
Methuselah

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfgsxr

thanks. and more good info from you guys on 2x/week for blood hormone levels. as i stated above, if i do take the step to run a cycle, it will be at or around the new year, so i still have plenty of time to research, and learn more. but it gets exiciting to start putting together a plan. now, i have time to perfect it.

I still can't get over that picture! I'll trade you all the juice that I have for your genetics!
10-30-2003, 06:40 PM
bmfgsxr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Methuselah

I still can't get over that picture! I'll trade you all the juice that I have for your genetics!

my genetics arent all that great bro. but thanks. i graduated highschool at 145 lbs. at my same height. it took years, upon years of good diet, and hardcore lifting to have that size. from 145 it took me about 3 years to reach 185 where i was stuck for about 5 years (serious plateau). then i got lucky when i hit 25 and my weight just started going up.
10-30-2003, 07:10 PM
Billy_Bathgate

1-10 deca @ 200mg weekly
1-11 test cyp. @ 500mg weekly
15-18 Clomid
1-18 10-20mg Nolva ED

Doses are plenty high enough.

You need alot more protien, and probally a lot more calories..didnt see how much cals your taking in
10-30-2003, 07:14 PM
bmfgsxr

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

1-10 deca @ 200mg weekly
1-11 test cyp. @ 500mg weekly
15-18 Clomid
1-18 10-20mg Nolva ED

Doses are plenty high enough.

You need alot more protien, and probally a lot more calories..didnt see how much cals your taking in

ill be shooting for about 4-5 thou/cal daily. and ill up my protein intake bigtime. thanks.
10-30-2003, 07:28 PM
Methuselah

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmfgsxr

ill be shooting for about 4-5 thou/cal daily. and ill up my protein intake bigtime. thanks.

That protein works!
10-30-2003, 07:38 PM
bmfgsxr

yep, its all about nitrogen retention and protein. every cell in the human body is made up of some sort of protein.
10-31-2003, 05:30 PM
bmfgsxr

bump.