Thread: questions for foxy
11-06-2003, 10:52 PM #1New Member
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questions for foxy
hey foxy, i realize it's a controversial topic around here, but i'm actually very curious about the exact details and principle behind your induced gigantism project. what do you mean by "pro-proliferative and pro apoptosis stages"? try to use language an intelligent, well educated layman would understand.
and 2 critiques of ambitious (and extremely risky) cylcle
you were going to use hcg periodicly to prevent atrophy given the exteme length of your cycle. hcg has been linked with LOTS of estrogen, counterproductive to your height goal. the mechanism by which the estrogen is produced is unclear. one person posted that it was created directly by the leydig cells in response to the HCG (tho i don't know where is info was coming from). if this is true, then just an anti-aromatase won't cut it, you'll need to double up with an e blocker during those times to be safe.
in a related matter, i know you're dead set on a very long cycle, but a year will be very rough on your body.you might want to break it up a bit, but still stay enhanced. you're in a unique period of your life - an 18 year old steroid virgin, with tons of test floating around (from some of your prior posts, you're the masturbation champion of the AR board...7 times in one day, all natural! you even broke my record! my hat is off to you! this is definitely a sign of extremely high test).
when i had my first cycle i used small conservative dosages...and absoluely exlploded! then i went on pct with clomid and a dex...and got even bigger! as a first time user, you are so sensitive to test even the boosts you get from clomid (up to 200%) and a dex (58%), combined with your high natural test production will make you feel like you're doing 500mg a week. thats how i felt on my first cycle. i bet you could feel the boost just taking anti-aromatase.
keep the year long cycle, but fold a minicycle into the beginning. go on a short/moderate run of AS, make huge gains, go on pct, make huge gains (2 weeks of very high test from HCG, and a few weeks of very high test from the clomid.) then, if you want to finish out the year, start up again, and make huge gains. you'll be running high levels of test all year either way, but i think it would be much easier on your system than completely shutting down for a year straight. you only lose your virginity once, you might as well get everything u can for it.
11-06-2003, 11:17 PM #2New Member
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and to make one thing absolutely clear -- I AM IN NO WAY SAYING THAT I THINK A 1 YEAR CYCLE FOR FOXY IS A GOOD IDEA! i thnk its a horrible idea, and that he would be much better served with a series of shorter cycles. but he's not going to do that, so i'm trying find a way to make his 1 year cycle safer
11-06-2003, 11:40 PM #3
why don't you just private message him?
11-06-2003, 11:55 PM #4
11-07-2003, 12:33 AM #5
11-07-2003, 02:06 AM #6
Why would he PM me about this??
Dont you guys wanna hear the truth, or would you be much happier in your little fantasy world of WRONG opinions? If so, dont read this.
First Octagon, you mention using an Anti-E as well. Problem with this?
About 3 months ago I spoke to the lead project coordinator for growth plate research in Sweden, and asked about SERM's (Tamoxifen , Raloxifene, Clomiphene).
His response confirmed what I thought. They noted that administration of SERMs lead to epiphyseal fusion in rabbits. This doesnt translate necessarily to humans, but its a risk I wont take. The estrogen receptor thats reponsible for epiphyseal fusion is estrogen receptor-alpha. If you can find me a SERM that doesnt stimulate the estrogen receptor-alpha, then its doable, but apparently the SERMs they used all lead to the same result -- epiphyseal fusion.
As for the pro-proliferative and pro-apoptosis.
Okay, when I listed my cycle off, I listed it in the EASIEST to understand manner possible. Now your asking me to get into the fine details of it (and this is where my research truly shines through). Its not as simple as running the drugs constantly for the entire 46 weeks.
Ive developed a technique which uses 2 phases. Phase 1 is the pro-proliferative phase. Phase 2 is the pro-apoptosis phase. For simplicity, each phase lasts 4 weeks. I based this 4 weeks on actual timings of how long chondrocytes and osteoblasts roughly take to undergo their processes.
The purposes of this phase is as follows:
a) to keep a constant batch of proliferating pre-chondrocytes in the germative layer of the growth plate -- done via GH.
b) to have the pre-chondrocytes differentiate into chondrocytes and become GH primed for IGF-1 expression as they enter the proliferative layer of the growth plate -- done via GH
c) to have the chondrocytes undergo massive clonal expansion in the proliferative layer -- done via IGF-1
d) to have the clonally expanded chondrocytes undergo hypertrophic three-fold increase in cell height and volume in the hypertrophic layer -- done via IGF-1
After 4 weeks of massive proliferation of chondrocyte cells, IGF-1 is dropped, however GH remains as a constant variable so that there is always a large number of pre-chondrocyte GH primed cells ready for clonal expansion during the next pro-proliferative phase.
The purpose of this phase is as follows:
a) to be anti-proliferative, slowing down the proliferation of chondrocyte cells -- done via thyroid hormones (T3)
b) to be pro-apoptosis, meaning, to encourage the cells to undergo final maturation and cell death, disintegrating into the extracellular matrix -- done via thyroid hormones (T3)
I will ramp up from the 12.5mcg/ed dosage of T3, to 75mcg/ed of T3 during this 4 week period, the large dosage of Thyroid Hormones will rapidly mature the hypertrophic chondrocytes in the hypertophic layer, and inevitably, lead them to cell death. Cell death of chondrocytes is required, as once they die, the process of Chondrogenesis (the creation of cartilage) is completed, and now the second process, Osteogenesis (the conversion of that cartilage to bone) begins. Osteogenesis is highly effected by the pro-proliferative phase as well, meaning, that all the compounds used in the pro-proliferative phase, will also greatly effect the number of osteoblasts and their stimulation to create bone in the provisional calcification layer, which is characterized by a resportion front in which the once avascular cartilage now becomes vasculrized and in the blood comes osteoblasts to secerete additional ECM (Extracellular Matrix) and subsequently calcify the cartilage.
Voila, bone is made. There are many more factors involved, dont think im overly simplifying this. Theres TGF's, FGF's, MGF's and BMP's highly at work here too. However GH, IGF-1, Androgens, and Thyroid Hormones all play potent roles in controlling the TGF's, FGF's, MGF's and BMP quantities and processes.
After 8 weeks, one 'cycle' is complete, my cycle plan is to run 3 of these 'cycles' in a consecutive row. Each 8 week cycle will go from start to finish all of chondrogenesis, and all of osteogenesis -- however, all done in a HIGHLY supraphysiological rate and quantity.
If somone wanted to be 7'5", and 3 of these cycles in a row was ineffective enough for them, they can feel free to tack on as many more of these 8 week cycles as they needed, until their desired goal was reached.
My goal isnt to be the next Mr. O, or the next michael jordan, so Im only going to run 3, to hopefully acheive my goals, as well as to test my hypothesis.
If its a success (which im confident it will be), I will be writing a book, as well as going into private underground treatments with this procedure for any adolescent whose striving to beat their genetics. I already know a doctor who im sure will lend the medical monitoring (as he has a Ph.D) needed to treat these 'underground' patients.
11-07-2003, 02:22 AM #7
11-07-2003, 02:58 AM #8Originally Posted by palme
Check your PMs.
Please respect his privacy and not distribute the email address to others.
11-07-2003, 03:14 AM #9
11-07-2003, 03:28 AM #10Originally Posted by cjp85
I also falsly stated age and previous experience for the purposes of avoiding the usual "teen steroid use = wrong" opinions.
Btw, call me Sphinx, as thats who im known as amongst AAS boards.
11-07-2003, 04:05 AM #11
I can totally understand why you would do that... Every time I look for advice I get shut down... that is bull... who cares how old you are if your going to do it.. your gonna do it
11-07-2003, 04:22 AM #12Originally Posted by 100%NATURAL-theGH
It just goes back to credibility. Cant take someone seriously if there discrepancy in everything he types.
Some kid who actually is 18 might compare FOXYs bullshit ambitions of anual teenage steroid cycle with his own.
Like I posted in the 18 and I juice thread. He may be educated in one area, but he lacks in most others. That is fine, but when he starts knocking on people who arent researched as heavily in the field of bio and molecular studies, and tries to make them feel inferior because of that, it shows inadequicy.
Id just guess that Foxy is probably a college student majoring in bio chem or such. Takes a lexture every week and likes to show it off. Kinda like that whole GOOD WILL HUNTING bit at the bar.
I could be wrong. But I like my theory and will stick to it.
11-07-2003, 04:22 AM #13
So what your trying to say is that you lie to other members so they will give you the wrong advise? Telling you not to juice at a young age is not bullshit, its such a shame to see kids resort to juicing when they have so much potential still. Just remember, if you juice young, you will never know how good you can actually be without the stuff. Thats why I read about roids everyday, and am planning on my cycle when I KNOW I can't go any further.
11-07-2003, 04:26 AM #14
I need advice... I have suppressed my natural test already so I'm kinda screwed from that stand point so I need to stimulate it... and I need the help to do it right... I am nearly 20 if that makes a difference but still... I would rather that we all just talk on an equal level
11-07-2003, 04:36 AM #15
Have you gone to a doctor about your low test levels. Maybe you could get HRT
11-07-2003, 04:37 AM #16
By the way, as the culprit of lowered natural test levels, whats your opinion on young juicers?
11-07-2003, 09:51 AM #17Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx
If he would have just wrote his questions to anyone, then I wouldn't have said that.
11-07-2003, 10:36 AM #18New Member
Originally Posted by dizzle
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11-07-2003, 10:42 AM #19
In fact...Oh forget it, I'm done, I'm spent, and this will go no where.
11-07-2003, 11:18 AM #20
Im with you on this on BLT...besides, i have a head ache from reading all of it!!! Well on the bigger and better...
11-07-2003, 12:06 PM #21Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx
11-07-2003, 03:32 PM #22Originally Posted by longhornDr
Alot more than you
Also, im going to replace Finasteride with Dutasteride hopefully.
Bermich, I take it as a compliment that you think im in college taking bio chem!!
11-07-2003, 03:35 PM #23Originally Posted by Foxy Sphinx
11-07-2003, 04:39 PM #24Originally Posted by longhornDr
BTW, I am not disrespecting any PhD holders out there. You are obviously intellegent people, just with out the hands on experience it takes to actually get the job done.
11-07-2003, 05:19 PM #25Junior Member
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- Sep 2003
After reading this....Foxy
You are 18?
You are going to be your own lab rat?
I have plenty of respect for your research, I think you might be one of the more "book-smart" people on this forum in theory. I think you regurgitate much of the information you read. But "book-smarts" and real world application rarely correlate when dealing with micro/molecular/bio-chem. Wouldn't there be chemical "cure" for shorter statured people? Surely you realize that you aren't the only one, nor the smartest, nor the last, to be researching height? (I think you are smart enough to figure that out.)
I have a friend, 30yrs old PhD at USC, graduated second in his class, studying the same nerve synopsis which he (and many others) believe controls certain biological features. He has been studying this same synopsis for almost 2 years now, everyday...for at least 10 hours a day. He has come to many conclusions, many dead-ends and killed many rats, rabbits, and a few monkeys. Alas nothing conclusive on Parkinson's.
It might be a good idea to apply this "cycle" to a rat first, rather than be your own? Your health is one of the most important things...without it you'd be miserable. You are attempting to synthetically alter virtually all pituatary/thyroid/liver functions and interfere with many other organs. One couldn't honestly believe at 18 they had the knowledge, capability, background, and experiance to sucessfully pull this off.
For 18, I'll give it to you, you're very intelligent. But you sound quite arrogent about that intelligence.
"this is where my research truly shines through." - Don't pat yourself on the back, let others do that. If your research really does shine through, it will be recognized. I hope for your health's-sake it does and it can be practically applied.
11-07-2003, 05:28 PM #26Member
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- Aug 2003
i think foxy is funny as hell.. you gotta give him credit guys, he backs his shit up.
11-07-2003, 05:31 PM #27Junior Member
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We don't have to give him credit...he gives it to himself. Sometimes fails to mention sources....
11-07-2003, 08:05 PM #28
How/why am I to mention sources?
Do you not know how many sources of information Ive come across?
I dont even remember 1% of all the sources where I acquired all my knowledge from.
Ive EASILY visited over 1,000 websites, personally spoken to over 100 scientists, and read over 50 books. Then you expect me to be able to remmeber where over the past few years I got something from?
Let me tell you something, my points arent from the same paper. For instance, If I read about the neuroendocrinology of chondrogenesis, I dont just take all my information from ONE SINGLE SOURCE, it comes from HUNDREADS of sources. You guys are asking me to search through everything ive ever seen, 99% of which I CANT even remmeber where I saw it, its an impossible task, I dont keep the titles of the books I read, I dont keep even 10% of the wbesites ive visited, I dont keep the email address and phone numbers of the scientists and doctors ive spoken to. By fluke I can recover some of the sources for the facts ive researched and seen, but thats VERY rare.
If I could find the facts, so can you, I have more research to do, you can go ahead and re-read through everything ive already gone thorugh, but I dont have the time nor the patience to re-read through everything ive read just find an example of my points.
Theyre fact, wether you wanna beleive it or not. Beleive me, id LOVE to be able to shove all the sources right in your faces as that would be the ultimate proof, but I cant, nor will I go out of my way to attempt to do so.
11-07-2003, 08:24 PM #29
Well, I respect your admiration, but It doesn't take a PHD, and MD to look at that cycle of yours and think its wacked out!!!! I say that in no disrespectful way. Seriously. I just hope whatever you do, you do it safely and responsibly and you don't pass that cycle along to any newbies who don't know anything. That could be very scary.
11-07-2003, 08:25 PM #30
Actually bro, I might of missed it. But what is your ultimate goal? Height? With your research, how much do you expect to grow?
11-07-2003, 08:26 PM #31Originally Posted by cjp85
Well, I don't know if he should be getting HRT, but I do know that 100%natural... should definitely go see a Dr. right away. Be honest with him. Let him know exactly what you did along with your history.
11-07-2003, 08:57 PM #32Originally Posted by buylongterm
I would have no clue how much to expect to grow as its going to depend on how well my body responds to what I put in it, but Im guesstimating 2-3 inches, hoping 4-5.
The goal is not just height growth, its muscle growth, and fat loss as well, all simultaneously occuring, all in one cycle.
Im estimating over 50+ lbs of weight, as for body fat loss, I couldnt even estimate, although im positive ill end up considerably lower than what Ill be pre-cycle.
As in my PCT, depending on visual BF level, I may be running a friend of mines experimental topical formula which contains yohimbine, clenbuterol , a topical diuretic, PGF2a, Octopamine, and other compounds.
11-07-2003, 09:04 PM #33Originally Posted by byu
Yes. Its called beleiving in yourself so much that you'd risk your own health and life on your own knowledge.
If anyones gonna succeed from MY ideas, its going to be ME, not a rat, not a rabbit, not a monkey.
If anyones gonna die from MY ideas, its going to be ME, not a rat, not a rabbit, not a monkey.
I beleive 100% in my knowledge and research, if I didint, I wouldnt talk about it.
11-07-2003, 09:41 PM #34
OK Foxy, lose the attitude. I was asking a question. Why is it that you don't think you will grow 2-3 inches naturally in the next few years?
11-07-2003, 09:53 PM #35
Foxy appears to be a smart individual. If everything is true and on the up and up then I wish him the best of luck.
WIthout scientists taking risks I doubt we would be where we are today. Sometimes science takes more than analyzing and then experimenting on monkeys. Sometimes it takes that one scientist to risk his health in something he believes in. If someone truly believes in something, you cant hold him from it. He will find a way to do what he believes.
He knows the risks, he knows how you all feel about it. He doesnt seem like he is heading into it blindly.
If problems occurr, Im sure he wont put the blame on anyone except himself and accept the consiquences.
He is not suggesting anyone else try it. He is just impressed with his research and wants to share some of his insight towards it.
That was my JERRY SPRINGER ending. Thank you
11-07-2003, 10:32 PM #36Originally Posted by bermich
WOW, that came out of our mouth??? I agree 100%. As long as people on the board no that it is VERY experimental (some of his post DO NOT suggest that) then I'm OK with it. I just think its about being safe. and being safe means 18 year olds shouldn't be doing roids.
11-07-2003, 11:04 PM #37Originally Posted by buylongterm
On a side note...
If you gave me an appointment with a psychologist im sure he would diagnose me with body dysmorphic disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder. They arent disorders to me, they are personality traits. Ones called vanity, the others called dedication.
The only way to be safe in life, is to be dead.
11-07-2003, 11:37 PM #38New Member
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class and manners
[QUOTE=Foxy Sphinx]Dont call me bro.
since i'm the one who started this thread, i'm going to take in on myself to try to keep it clean
sphinx, that comment was uncalled for. a bro is anyone on this board who shares knowledge that may help others. if you think what you posted has any value, then he can call u bro.
you may not agree with him but he is trying to share his wisdom with you as well by telling how dangerous he thinks this is, to you and others. you may disagree, but if his goal is to help you or educate you then he is your bro too. 'nuff said
11-07-2003, 11:46 PM #39
Im not going to respond to the comment above this LOL as its pointless semantics.
But I have just thought of something, if HCG causes estrogen as you say (and ill research more into this if Im gonna run it), you claim it does this by a method other than the aromatase enzyme, so an anti-a wont work, but what about Aromasin ??
I dont recall Aromasin as being an anti-aromatase, I thought its mechanism of estrogen inhibition is different than blocking the aromatase enzyme.
11-08-2003, 12:03 AM #40
Good Call Octagon, thanks! Foxy, Don't get me wrong, I am very curious about your knoweldge....Lets just try to discuss this stuff like adults, thats all I ask for.
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