Raising & keeping a HIGH NATURAL test level!!

[shalke]

I was looking for some time for something that will raise my test level without
blocking my HPTA and stoping my natural test production.
somthing that can be used for long-term use
and maybe even could use for a good bridge.

well after reading a few articles and researches
the best thing would be a estrogen antagonist ,Tamoxifen would be a better cheaper choice,using about 20mg ED.
and maybe adding HCG
HCG will be used 2-3 times a week at about 500iu.
thise will keep a HIGH testosterone level with out stoping the natural test production and without any special long-term side-effects.
I cant explain the theory so well becouse my english isnt that good.
but here are a few linkes that would explain it.
anti-estrogens links:
http://www.healthsciences.columbia.e...ses/Fisch.html
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/main.html (past issues>issue#6)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
HCG links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...ging+Technique

BTW im doing an experiment on me started yesterday
using tamoxifen +hcg for raising natural test.
any thoughts?

[Dude-Man]

much more insteresting and safe sounding than sphinx's self experiment.

[octagon]

i was thinking along the same lines myself not too long ago. instead of an e blocker like tamoxifen , with a questionable record for raising T, how about an anti-aromatase like liquidex (+58% T). and you could occasionally "cycle" clomid, which gives me a significant T boost by itself. people have raised question about whether, HCG desenstizes the body to LH over time. also, hcg causes estrogen problems in some people. i'm not the expert, but hcg sounds a little harsh and risky to me. anyone know more about hcg?

[the hulkster]

what if you used Tribulus. terrestris or saponins, wouldn't that work at raising you natural test production. And then there is the whole methoxyisoflavone theories. I am actually gonna try some of this for my PCT, also using clomid, so don't know how well I can measure the effectiveness of the other 2.



Whatcha gonna do brother.......

[Grant]

why do you think hcg is risky?

[OTC]

Good thread, I am curious to the awnser of this as well.

[bigsd67]

i have taken tribex after my clomid therapy and it seems to work nicely...from a performance standpoint i get some serious wood and am able to have sex all the time...both key elements to high test levels.

[shalke]

about the aromatase inhibitors: I didnt even considerd liquidex/arimidex becouse where i live in they are extremely expensive.
however tamoxifen is very common and cheap,( zeneca NOLVADEX costs 7$).

about the supp's: I also orderd from BAC tribulus, avena-sativa,Long-jack and maca so i will also try them out.
the thing is thate nolvadex are cheap not less then trib maca and long-jack.
and they are PROVEN to raise the test level.
and even if tribulus raise your test level nolvadex will probably raise it alot higher.
tribulus would only raise it to a certain level if at all.

about HCG : i am like you gays still not sure about it.
Dr.Eugene Shippen in "The Testosterone Syndrome"
says that the estrogen spike is from over-dosing.
if taken at about 500iu 2-3 times a week before bedtime
there should not be a serious raise in estrogen.
and of course thate we are taking the HCG only with the Tamoxifen.
the great doubt is realy does "HCG desenstizes the body to LH over time".

[johnsomebody]

This is really interesting. I've always been leary of HRT because of its potential for testicular atrophy.

What the Healthsciences article says is that .25mg Clomid a day raised low test patients levels to the mod/high level by putting their own balls to use rather than conking them out, with negligable side effects.

Makes sense to me!

[arby]

This is really interesting. I've always been leary of HRT because of its potential for testicular atrophy.

What the Healthsciences article says is that .25mg Clomid a day raised low test patients levels to the mod/high level by putting their own balls to use rather than conking them out, with negligable side effects.

Makes sense to me!

If you talk to any HRT specialist who has tried treat secondary hypogonadism by adiministering arimidex and HCG in a way not unlike the way you describe, he will tell you that even though the lab numbers for total T were raised far higher during treatment, that the patients felt nothing.

It seems that when you go past the point of recovery from illness/HPTA shutdown, exogeneous test is the only thing that works in vivo.

RB

[johnsomebody]

Wow, that's even more interesting.
How can exogenous test be more effective than endogenous? Any explanations for that?

[Billy_Bathgate]

The desensitation fear with HCG is of the Leydig cells. Thats why its not recommended for more than 3wks or over 1000ius at once, at least the AMA thinks so.

You may be able to boost things short term, but they wont stay like that long term. There is a reason they are low to start with. Boosting them up is only a band-aid and eventually isnt going to work. Furthermore, there is a limit of how high they are going to go, which is probally not much anyways unless you are starting from a very low point.

Thats why HRT usualy includes some form of exengonous test.

[shalke]

Thanks for the info Billy_Bathgate.
but what is your opinion about using the Tamoxifen
for a T boost?

[Billy_Bathgate]

Its a temporary solution. How long? No clue! Maybe you can find out and tell me

Tamoxifen is the only thing I would use though. Not ari or clomid. Mainly for the harshness of ari on the cholesterol and clomid from the general feeling it gives.