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  1. #1
    depdaddy's Avatar
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    gear alone doesnt make you grow

    this is just for the newbies and those that think if i take 500mg of test a week ill be as big as arnold...hey there is a lot more to it..diet /training intensity/genetics..and a lot more...im tired of hearing all this shit from people that say so and so scammed me because i didnt grow on my cycle..could be bunk gear at times but most likely its the person himself...some young guys in their 20s think if they take 250mg test a week they will grow..all they have done is shut down their nat production and re-placed it with synthetic test..the big guys you see around didnt get that way on 1 cycle..if you dont eat more calories then you burn you want gain a damn thing..i pound =3500 cals..so if you want to grow you have to consume that many more calories..period...you cant hit the gym for 20 minutes every day and expect to grow..you must give 110% to see results..gear isnt the magic pill..its designed to help but not replace..sorry if i piss you off but this is just my personal opinion

    Depdaddy

  2. #2
    simplyjakked is offline Member
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    dont forget rest...and plenty of it!

  3. #3
    KeyMastur is offline VET
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    what makes you bring up this point ??

  4. #4
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    AAS should be reserved for advanced athletes/bodybuilders whom already well understand the fundamentals so they are less likely to injure themselves and obtain keepable results.

    BTW - 250mg of testosterone per week is about triple the natural production for most but best results are seen at and over 300mg per week... 500mg per week is a good beginner cycle of testosterone.

  5. #5
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    haha


    good post though depdaddy, people think if they inject shit, they'll grow.


    Quote Originally Posted by KeyMastur
    what makes you bring up this point ??

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    actually there was a study that just injecting steroids and not exercising people still increased muscle mass slightly that is why people with MS are put on steroids, but this is a good post bc if any newbie wants to have the 20+ gains fromt their first cycle than u have to train hard, eat like crazy, sleep, and pretty much give up your life for 10 weeks. That is a sacrifice I do not mind making bc i know my friends will still be here twn weeks from now.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightWeightBaby
    actually there was a study that just injecting steroids and not exercising people still increased muscle mass slightly that is why people with MS are put on steroids, but this is a good post bc if any newbie wants to have the 20+ gains fromt their first cycle than u have to train hard, eat like crazy, sleep, and pretty much give up your life for 10 weeks. That is a sacrifice I do not mind making bc i know my friends will still be here twn weeks from now.
    If you are changing things on a cycle(sleep, training, diet, etc) then you should'nt be cycling. Theese have to be basics that you do 24-7

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeyMastur
    what makes you bring up this point ??
    just got a wild hair up my ass thats all...
    warrior..thanks for input...im voicing opinion not being technical
    but i see no one disagrees with me..theres a lot more then sticking needle in ones ass and waiting to swell up like a fucking watermelon

  9. #9
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    Some people I know are just like this. This one guy I know just shot deca and didn't workout. My friends I were just laughing at this guy because he just got fat and then started walking around with his arms bowed out a little bit. He thought he got swole and didn't know jack shit about roids. I see it all the time on here too with guys saying they got 8 amps of sustanon and they want to gain 25 pounds. Just ridiculous some people's interpretations of aas and how they work. Kind of amussing at times but really annoying when they preach that shit.

  10. #10
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by asymmetrical1
    If you are changing things on a cycle(sleep, training, diet, etc) then you should'nt be cycling. Theese have to be basics that you do 24-7
    Dude, you're right on the money!

    I'm sick of seeing peoples "cycle diet"....I have been eating like I was on a cycle for 10+ years. I dont call it a diet, its a lifestyle. "Diet" implies temporary...that's another reason people lose their gains. Eating 6-8 clean meals a day is hard work too, anyone that has been at it for years will tell you. It's a fucking chore no doubt.

    D

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dent depot
    Dude, you're right on the money!

    I'm sick of seeing peoples "cycle diet"....I have been eating like I was on a cycle for 10+ years. I dont call it a diet, its a lifestyle. "Diet" implies temporary...that's another reason people lose their gains. Eating 6-8 clean meals a day is hard work too, anyone that has been at it for years will tell you. It's a fucking chore no doubt.

    D
    true true bro
    if your diet/training/sleep is'nt in order when your off cycle..then it does'nt matter what you do while on...evrything goes bye bye

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by asymmetrical1
    If you are changing things on a cycle(sleep, training, diet, etc) then you should'nt be cycling. Theese have to be basics that you do 24-7

    So so true, wish others would realize that

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by depdaddy
    this is just for the newbies and those that think if i take 500mg of test a week ill be as big as arnold...hey there is a lot more to it..diet /training intensity/genetics..and a lot more...im tired of hearing all this shit from people that say so and so scammed me because i didnt grow on my cycle..could be bunk gear at times but most likely its the person himself...some young guys in their 20s think if they take 250mg test a week they will grow..all they have done is shut down their nat production and re-placed it with synthetic test..the big guys you see around didnt get that way on 1 cycle..if you dont eat more calories then you burn you want gain a damn thing..i pound =3500 cals..so if you want to grow you have to consume that many more calories..period...you cant hit the gym for 20 minutes every day and expect to grow..you must give 110% to see results..gear isnt the magic pill..its designed to help but not replace..sorry if i piss you off but this is just my personal opinion

    Depdaddy
    I've read some studies that injected 30 year old men with testosterone .

    One group lifted three times a week. The testosterone group did no exercise. The testosterone group added way more muscle than the lifting group over a six week period.

    BTW, I only lift for twenty minutes a session each day and I'm seeing great results.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    I've read some studies that injected 30 year old men with testosterone .

    One group lifted three times a week. The testosterone group did no exercise. The testosterone group added way more muscle than the lifting group over a six week period.

    BTW, I only lift for twenty minutes a session each day and I'm seeing great results.
    but im sure you are doing everything you can to get there..there are days i lift for 20-30 minutes on my high rep days but i do like 4-500 reps in 20 minutes till i cant move my arms..plus diet is on the money

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    I've read some studies that injected 30 year old men with testosterone .

    One group lifted three times a week. The testosterone group did no exercise. The testosterone group added way more muscle than the lifting group over a six week period.

    BTW, I only lift for twenty minutes a session each day and I'm seeing great results.
    is that you in your avatar? your HUGE

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by asymmetrical1
    is that you in your avatar? your HUGE
    LMAO.......

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by depdaddy
    but im sure you are doing everything you can to get there..there are days i lift for 20-30 minutes on my high rep days but i do like 4-500 reps in 20 minutes till i cant move my arms..plus diet is on the money
    I don't do that many reps, but I do eat a lot.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    I don't do that many reps, but I do eat a lot.
    i have a tougher time eating than i do in the gym

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    I've read some studies that injected 30 year old men with testosterone .

    One group lifted three times a week. The testosterone group did no exercise. The testosterone group added way more muscle than the lifting group over a six week period.

    BTW, I only lift for twenty minutes a session each day and I'm seeing great results.
    Yes, studies like this do exist. However, there are some issues. Most studies like this use untrained individuals. In most cases, the simple administration of testosterone will cause a gain in muscle even w/o doing any specific resistance training. This does not mean that this is going to work for an advanced athlete...someone who's been lifting for years and has been working on diet for years - like a lot of bros on this board. Or even that it'll work incredibly for a young guy who originally had plenty of test in his system...the fact of the matter is that for people like this, unless all things are controlled, you're probably not going to see incredible results.

    A lot of people look to steroids as a magic pill/inject. The study you quote (if you've got a reference, please post it, as i'd like to read it) shows this to work. However, it does not include any follow up to see if they retained any of the muscle post-cycle.

    As far as your experience, you may be seeing great results in a very short period of time. This is not true for everyone. You also must remember that "great results" for one person is not "great results" for another. You may have a different idea of great results than someone else. Maybe you're satisfied with what you're seeing - if so, good. That's the idea. But someone who has seen results from AS before and has seen the potential of using it combined with serious diet and training may have a different viewpoint of "great results." And yea, if you're on a cycle and doing some training every day, you'll probably see some results - but that doesn't mean you're maximizing them. Naturally, if you're putting AS into your body, spending your money, manipulating your body chemistry, playing with your life...then i would assume you'd want to get the most out of it, and not waste anything.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by asymmetrical1
    i have a tougher time eating than i do in the gym
    That's the hardest thing of all....I truly agree there,It's a full time job trying to eat,can be hell even when your not hungry but know you have to eat!!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Bull
    That's the hardest thing of all....I truly agree there,It's a full time job trying to eat,can be hell even when your not hungry but know you have to eat!!!
    true true bro

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by asymmetrical1
    is that you in your avatar? your HUGE
    Unfortunately, no. It's an old girlfriend of mine.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cb25
    A lot of people look to steroids as a magic pill/inject. The study you quote (if you've got a reference, please post it, as i'd like to read it) shows this to work. However, it does not include any follow up to see if they retained any of the muscle post-cycle.

    As far as your experience, you may be seeing great results in a very short period of time. This is not true for everyone. You also must remember that "great results" for one person is not "great results" for another. You may have a different idea of great results than someone else. Maybe you're satisfied with what you're seeing - if so, good. That's the idea. But someone who has seen results from AS before and has seen the potential of using it combined with serious diet and training may have a different viewpoint of "great results." And yea, if you're on a cycle and doing some training every day, you'll probably see some results - but that doesn't mean you're maximizing them. Naturally, if you're putting AS into your body, spending your money, manipulating your body chemistry, playing with your life...then i would assume you'd want to get the most out of it, and not waste anything.
    Apparently, gear alone does lead to increases in size and strength. Of course, gear combined with good eating and exercising does lead to much better gains, but...


    http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/335/1/1

    The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men
    Shalender Bhasin, M.D., Thomas W. Storer, Ph.D., Nancy Berman, Ph.D., Carlos Callegari, M.D., Brenda Clevenger, B.A., Jeffrey Phillips, M.D., Thomas J. Bunnell, B.A., Ray Tricker, Ph.D., Aida Shirazi, R.Ph., and Richard Casaburi, Ph.D., M.D.

    ABSTRACT

    Background Athletes often take androgenic steroids in an attempt to increase their strength. The efficacy of these substances for this purpose is unsubstantiated, however.

    Methods We randomly assigned 43 normal men to one of four groups: placebo with no exercise, testosterone with no exercise, placebo plus exercise, and testosterone plus exercise. The men received injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate or placebo weekly for 10 weeks. The men in the exercise groups performed standardized weight-lifting exercises three times weekly. Before and after the treatment period, fat-free mass was determined by underwater weighing, muscle size was measured by magnetic resonance imaging, and the strength of the arms and legs was assessed by bench-press and squatting exercises, respectively.

    Results Among the men in the no-exercise groups, those given testosterone had greater increases than those given placebo in muscle size in their arms (mean [±SE] change in triceps area, 424±104 vs. -81±109 mm2; P<0.05) and legs (change in quadriceps area, 607±123 vs. -131±111 mm2; P<0.05) and greater increases in strength in the bench-press (9±4 vs. -1±1 kg, P<0.05) and squatting exercises (16±4 vs. 3±1 kg, P<0.05). The men assigned to testosterone and exercise had greater increases in fat-free mass (6.1±0.6 kg) and muscle size (triceps area, 501±104 mm2; quadriceps area, 1174±91 mm2) than those assigned to either no-exercise group, and greater increases in muscle strength (bench-press strength, 22±2 kg; squatting-exercise capacity, 38±4 kg) than either no-exercise group. Neither mood nor behavior was altered in any group.

    Conclusions Supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, especially when combined with strength training, increase fat-free mass and muscle size and strength in normal men.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by asymmetrical1
    If you are changing things on a cycle(sleep, training, diet, etc) then you should'nt be cycling. Theese have to be basics that you do 24-7
    THANK YOU !

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dent depot
    I'm sick of seeing peoples "cycle diet"....I have been eating like I was on a cycle for 10+ years. I dont call it a diet, its a lifestyle. "Diet" implies temporary...that's another reason people lose their gains.
    my "cycle diet" is less clean than normal...i think thats fine, and makes appropriate use of the word "diet" which connotes temporary like you pointed out...=)

    -- clocky

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by depdaddy
    this is just for the newbies and those that think if i take 500mg of test a week ill be as big as arnold...hey there is a lot more to it..diet /training intensity/genetics..and a lot more...im tired of hearing all this shit from people that say so and so scammed me because i didnt grow on my cycle..could be bunk gear at times but most likely its the person himself...some young guys in their 20s think if they take 250mg test a week they will grow..all they have done is shut down their nat production and re-placed it with synthetic test..the big guys you see around didnt get that way on 1 cycle..if you dont eat more calories then you burn you want gain a damn thing..i pound =3500 cals..so if you want to grow you have to consume that many more calories..period...you cant hit the gym for 20 minutes every day and expect to grow..you must give 110% to see results..gear isnt the magic pill..its designed to help but not replace..sorry if i piss you off but this is just my personal opinion

    Depdaddy
    Hehe.. you sound angry

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cb25
    Yes, studies like this do exist. However, there are some issues. Most studies like this use untrained individuals. In most cases, the simple administration of testosterone will cause a gain in muscle even w/o doing any specific resistance training. This does not mean that this is going to work for an advanced athlete...someone who's been lifting for years and has been working on diet for years - like a lot of bros on this board. Or even that it'll work incredibly for a young guy who originally had plenty of test in his system...the fact of the matter is that for people like this, unless all things are controlled, you're probably not going to see incredible results.

    A lot of people look to steroids as a magic pill/inject. The study you quote (if you've got a reference, please post it, as i'd like to read it) shows this to work. However, it does not include any follow up to see if they retained any of the muscle post-cycle.

    As far as your experience, you may be seeing great results in a very short period of time. This is not true for everyone. You also must remember that "great results" for one person is not "great results" for another. You may have a different idea of great results than someone else. Maybe you're satisfied with what you're seeing - if so, good. That's the idea. But someone who has seen results from AS before and has seen the potential of using it combined with serious diet and training may have a different viewpoint of "great results." And yea, if you're on a cycle and doing some training every day, you'll probably see some results - but that doesn't mean you're maximizing them. Naturally, if you're putting AS into your body, spending your money, manipulating your body chemistry, playing with your life...then i would assume you'd want to get the most out of it, and not waste anything.

    Great call. I'm also sick and tired of people thinking AS is the easy way out. pisses me off.

  28. #28
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    Oh I have to so agree with this post. I have been asked this question many times in the gym by all the kids hanging out. I hate seeing someone complaining there gear isnt working but they dont train or eat like a bird. Whats even more funny is the kids that brag how they trained for 3-4 hours but stand around talking at the flat bench not lifting a damn thing. Now thats funny.

    Then they ask me why they're not growing or getting stronger. Whats the secret bro why are u so strong whats your training? Dude train and get the fook out. Its not a social gathering. I dont talk to noone when I go. I purposely train at different times and other gyms to get a good work out so I dont have anyone bugging me. Can I get an amen on that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyRoids
    Oh I have to so agree with this post. I have been asked this question many times in the gym by all the kids hanging out. I hate seeing someone complaining there gear isnt working but they dont train or eat like a bird. Whats even more funny is the kids that brag how they trained for 3-4 hours but stand around talking at the flat bench not lifting a damn thing. Now thats funny.

    Then they ask me why they're not growing or getting stronger. Whats the secret bro why are u so strong whats your training? Dude train and get the fook out. Its not a social gathering. I dont talk to noone when I go. I purposely train at different times and other gyms to get a good work out so I dont have anyone bugging me. Can I get an amen on that?
    AMEN!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by buylongterm
    Great call. I'm also sick and tired of people thinking AS is the easy way out. pisses me off.
    It's easier than being natural and trying to gain a whole bunch of muscle and losing a whole bunch of fat.

  31. #31
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    Dont forget sleep, thats my favorite part of my quest to get huge. I'll train like a madman, then eat all day, and crash on bed for 9 hours just to wake up for another great day of training and eating. I hate off days!

  32. #32
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    Just got done studying this for my pharm class. It was a 1996 study with 600mg/wk for 10 weeks using test enanthate . Here's the results:

    Regimen Inc in Muscle Mass Inc in Bench

    Test Alone 7lbs 20lbs

    Exercise Alone 4lbs 20lbs

    Test + Exercise 13lbs 48lbs

  33. #33
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    uhm, ...no need for posting this.. its logic.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catamount
    Just got done studying this for my pharm class. It was a 1996 study with 600mg/wk for 10 weeks using test enanthate . Here's the results:

    Regimen Inc in Muscle Mass Inc in Bench

    Test Alone 7lbs 20lbs

    Exercise Alone 4lbs 20lbs

    Test + Exercise 13lbs 48lbs
    I think I just posted that study above.

  35. #35
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    You know I should elaborate on this too. Another thing that is halarious when I see 5,6,7 people standing around a flat bench gabbing away in tight cut up muscle shirts lookin like gym monkeys with no legs and toothpics for arms. Is the fact they spend the 3-4 hours maxing out. Like thats all there is to working out is maxing out on the flat bench. No training no reps just a warm up and weeeeeee im the strongest I can bench 225lb once on the flat bench oh my ego.... Then they're done for the day. Next day back to the flat bench all 5,6,7 guys maxing out on the flat bench gabbing away again talking about how they wish they were on steroids so they can be stronger.

    Whats even more funny is them claiming they pressed 300 but all I see is some guy standing over them curling the damn bar bell as there backs curl up and ass leaves that damn bench after a nice big ole bounce off the chest routine. What kind of growing are you going to get from that kind of training besides a lil knot of gut coming through your torn abdominal wall called a hernia you idiots...

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvMyRoids
    Oh I have to so agree with this post. I have been asked this question many times in the gym by all the kids hanging out. I hate seeing someone complaining there gear isnt working but they dont train or eat like a bird. Whats even more funny is the kids that brag how they trained for 3-4 hours but stand around talking at the flat bench not lifting a damn thing. Now thats funny.

    Then they ask me why they're not growing or getting stronger. Whats the secret bro why are u so strong whats your training? Dude train and get the fook out. Its not a social gathering. I dont talk to noone when I go. I purposely train at different times and other gyms to get a good work out so I dont have anyone bugging me. Can I get an amen on that?

  36. #36
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    As I've always said...

    1/3 = Eating
    1/3 = Training
    1/3 = The rest (sleep, supplements, steroids , attitude, technique...)

    Many bros at my gym are really surprised when I tell them what I eat in a day... seems too many people still believe in starvation diets or simlpy not feeding their muscles.

    How the heck can anything grow if you don't feed it?

    Red

  37. #37
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    i think a lot of people don't lift heavy enough for low reps to get big. I see a lot of people at the gym complaining that they don't get big, but I watch them workout and each set is 10+ reps and not even to failure. Besides warmups and cool downs, most of my lifts are between the 2-5 rep range.

    diet is also key, especially if your body type is an ecto or endomorph. those people have to really down the calories to increase mass.

  38. #38
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    Man bro I get a semi every time i see your cycle. you got IGF in there too. Where u at right now? Size, bf, your hieght n stuff. Im gonna plan out a good cycle here soon and I think i found one.



    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle
    i think a lot of people don't lift heavy enough for low reps to get big. I see a lot of people at the gym complaining that they don't get big, but I watch them workout and each set is 10+ reps and not even to failure. Besides warmups and cool downs, most of my lifts are between the 2-5 rep range.

    diet is also key, especially if your body type is an ecto or endomorph. those people have to really down the calories to increase mass.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by depdaddy
    but im sure you are doing everything you can to get there..there are days i lift for 20-30 minutes on my high rep days but i do like 4-500 reps in 20 minutes till i cant move my arms..plus diet is on the money
    Not near that in reps but I think I studied what to do correctly and took the advice seriously. First thing I did when I started my cycle, I uped the weights on the machine and weight sets in the garage, doubled the sets and as my strength improved, increased the reps, basically I work out until even after a 10 minute break, i feel like I am about to tear my muscles, I can usually feel the soreness until next morning but the recovery time is much better then before I did this cycle so I am not really fearing over training myself as much as I did before the cycle.

    I have settled on the training method of workout for 1 hour 45 minutes, hit ALL muscle groups, take 2 days off for rest/recovery and then do it again on 3rd day out. I am fully recovered by next workout day, although off cycle I dont think the 1 hour 45 minutes is a good idea, I am only working out so long while on cycle because cortisol is suppressed by anabolic steroids and I have not seen any overtraining problems while on cycle.

    I had some profounding good weight gains right from the first few days of my cycle but in all reality I was working hard for 4 months trying to cut 10 lbs of fat off my gut up until the first shot. Those 10 lbs were hell to get off, ephedra, low carbs, my body did not want to give up the weight, when I took my first injection I did a complete 360 on my diet, went from 2400 calarie/day diet to 4500+ calarie and gained 10 lbs in 10 days, but something was different, I think the steroids helped the return weight come back at least not as fat on the belly. I am on week 7 and very happy with my appearance, I am up full 22 lbs, my muscles of have been solidifying, bulking and defining a lot in the last few weeks even though once I hit the 20 lb mark, my weight has been stable. I think its actually a process of converting water gain to real muscle as the weight gain seems to be nearly halted for 2-3 weeks but that also coincided with starting anti-estrogens.

    I am convinced my steroids have done all I have hoped they would so far, I read up on the subject, got advice and info on "what to do", I've followed the advice religiously and I think I have gained so far all the rewards that are possible if you do it right.

    For the other newbies, do not make up your own methods as you go. Listen to these veterans and follow their advice and all will work out for you if you listen to them.

  40. #40
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    rainbowsheep is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dizzle
    i think a lot of people don't lift heavy enough for low reps to get big. I see a lot of people at the gym complaining that they don't get big, but I watch them workout and each set is 10+ reps and not even to failure. Besides warmups and cool downs, most of my lifts are between the 2-5 rep range.

    diet is also key, especially if your body type is an ecto or endomorph. those people have to really down the calories to increase mass.
    Lifting to failure every time is hard on the nervous system (especially with naturals). The CNS takes a long time to recover from going to failure.

    But yeah, you have to progressivly increase the amount of weight you use to see continued muscle growth. I think it's better to do it without reaching failure though.

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