cypionate once/week?

[Pheedno]

The fastest point of release is at the time of injection.

It takes roughly 4-5x the half-life to reach steady plasma blood levels.

Enan and Cyp have roughly the same half-life, active life is within a couple of days. Deconate is going to be around 5 days, and Undec around 6

I say roughly on the 4x half life for active life as I would put active life of decoanate at around 18-19, and Undec at around 22

[BASK8KACE]

Their is a difference between half-life and active life people. It's a common mistake to refer to active as half. I have been guilty of this many times

When you are recommending clomid 2wks, 3wks, etc. The basis on this recommendation is in reference to active life of the steroid , not half life.

Cyps half life is about 4 days. Roughly 4x that is active life

Pheedno,

I just went to the UPJOHN website and found that the half life is actually 8 days, not 4. Here's the excerpt:

"Testosterone in plasma is 98 percent bound to a specific testosterone-estradiol
binding globulin, and about 2 percent is free. Generally, the amount of this sex-hormone binding globulin in the plasma will determine the distribution of testosterone between free and bound forms, and the free testosterone concentration will determine its half-life.

About 90 percent of a dose of testosterone is excreted in the urine as glucuronic and sulfuric acid conjugates of testosterone and its metabolites; about 6 percent of a dose is excreted in the feces, mostly in the unconjugated form. Inactivation of testosterone occurs primarily in the liver. Testosterone is metabolized to various 17-keto steroidsthrough two different pathways.

The half-life of testosterone cypionate when injected intramuscularly is approximately eight days.

In many tissues the activity of testosterone appears to depend on reduction to dihydrotestosterone, which binds to cytosol receptor proteins. The steroid-receptor complex is transported to the nucleus where it initiates transcription events and cellular changes related to androgen action."

Here's a link to the site if you want more information:
http://www.pfizer.com/download/uspi_...stosterone.pdf

[Pheedno]

Well, I'm going to have to go back through my readings.
With an 8 day half-life, your looking at 32-40 days before steady plasma blood concentrations are reached. This does not sound right.

Back to the studies

[BASK8KACE]

Well, I'm going to have to go back through my readings.
With an 8 day half-life, your looking at 32-40 days before steady plasma blood concentrations are reached. This does not sound right.

Back to the studies

I left the link to the website where it's printed (Pharmacia and Upjohn are now owned by Pfizer). I wanted to make sure that I gave you a reference directly to the site so you'd know that I wasn't joking.

[Billy_Bathgate]

Active life is just how long a significant amount of the drug remains. Roughly after 4-5 half-lives the amount is considered very low or insignificant.

Ex. 100mg of a drug with a half life of 20hrs.

Day 1 100mg
Day 2 50mg
Day 3 25mg
Day 4 12.5mg
Day 5 6.25 mg

So the active life could be said to be around 4 or 5 days, as compared to the original dose, it is approximately 9%.

When a steroid is injected, the highest amount of release is immediate. Many get confused and think that longer esters dont start releasing till later on.

A question may be then, well why does it still take longer to kick in? Well you have to relise that the release RATE between prop and enanthate is not the same. That is what the difference in the two is (besides ester weight and soluabilty). Prop releases its full amount much faster than enanthate.

Another question some wonder is why it still takes more time for it to kick in, such as what Upjohn stated. The more and more you inject, the higher the actual plasma levels are.

Think of you start with one depot that starts releaseing at a decreasing rate. Now add another one in, and then another, and then another, etc till you get about 5 or 6. By this time, the TOTAL amount releasing from all of them (albeit the first, second, and third are already near deplenished) is much higher than that initial depot you created with your injetion. The same thing happens with a shorter ester like prop as the above scenerio, just faster.

[BASK8KACE]

Billy,

Would you talk about how we can apply this half-life information to deciding whether or not to "front load" with large doses of test (>500mg per week) before dropping back to a normal 300-500mg per week dose?

[the dent depot]

Well, on my last cycle I did 250mg/e5d...now I'm doing 200mg/e7d.
I feel just as good as my 1st cycle...to me-> Less is more.
I alway cringe when I hear about someone on their 1st or 2nd cycle doing 500mg+/wk....why not do the least needed to grow? I mean, I'm 29 yrs old...been training since I was 16 or so. I'm 5'8"/now 219lbs/15% or lower bf. I'm growing like mad on a cycle most of you guys would laugh at.

JMHO

D

[Billy_Bathgate]

Billy,

Would you talk about how we can apply this half-life information to deciding whether or not to "front load" with large doses of test (>500mg per week) before dropping back to a normal 300-500mg per week dose?

Theres no way it can be 8 days half-life. Maybe they said that but meant something else? LOL, I believe you that they said it, it just doesnt make sence to me.

Kick starting with prop, or frontloading, basically do the same thing. It comes down to one thing, getting more test in your system faster. If you give a bolus test dose, your going to have more releasing. The release rate wont change, but the amount will be higher as you just injected more. Kickstarting, is doing the same thing, giving a bolus. The difference is that it doesnt last as long as a front load would, as it will drop off much faster than a frontload with enanthate would. Its really hard to predict exactly what the plasma levels would be, but there would be more of a spike in the beggining with a sharper drop with the prop vs a smoother curve that declines slower with a frontload. Do you know what Im saying?

Either way, to actually get the plasma levels of what they would be like on a week 5 cycle of enanthate or maybe a week 3 or 4 of propionate , the frontload would have to be extremely high to achieve that. Myself I havent frontloaded over 1200mg before, but it would be interesting to see what a really high dose would do, say like 5000mg/wk for the first 2wks. In theory, the levels should be up closer to what it woudl normally peak at possibly in the 2nd or 3rd week vs the 5th or 6th. I havent heard of anyone doing that yet though. One problem presents is that its going to be a large shock to your body. Id excpect flu like symptoms at the least

So on a debate of kickstarting vs frontloading, IMO its really nothing more than a personal prefference. They both are doing the same net goal, to raise plasma concentrations higher for a cycle based on longer estered gear. My prefference is both lol if you could have guessed that one... If I picked one, it would be the frontload though as there is a smoother transition in the levels once the frontload is stopped (again due to the slow release rate of enanthate).

[BASK8KACE]

Thanks for the info on the front loading, Billy.