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  1. #1
    JohnnyB's Avatar
    JohnnyB is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    My PCT Protocol by SWALE

    I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

    Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid -induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

    If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

    The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex , is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

    I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel , or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

    I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

    All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

    JohnnyB

  2. #2
    Bartleby's Avatar
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    very interesting...great info and great post JohnnyB!!

  3. #3
    groverman1's Avatar
    groverman1 is offline Cross Dressing Member
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    Excellent post bro.

  4. #4
    Shud's Avatar
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    interesting stuff man....

  5. #5
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    bump, has anyone here tried this?

  6. #6
    bobbo23's Avatar
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    So if the hcg came in a 5000UI per 1ml . 1ml/unit

    Can someone use the 250-500IU's each week form the same unit. Doesnt it come in amps?(no clue)

  7. #7
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    I now use HCG every six weeks, and have always wanted to do more (makes perfect sense to me) but other reads debunk the idea...Personally, I'm gonna ride on what I just read.....I like to agree with things I already believe
    Great post JohnnyB!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbo23
    So if the hcg came in a 5000UI per 1ml . 1ml/unit

    Can someone use the 250-500IU's each week form the same unit. Doesnt it come in amps?(no clue)
    Not that low that I've ever seen, I'm having that problem now, I got some Bacteriosatic Water from GPZ, but they only have it in 30ml Vials, so I've been wondering if it will last long enough to still be good when I need it again, but after reading this post (and it fitting perfectly with what I want to believe) I'll be using enough, soon enough, to where it won't go bad.
    .....where's my darts....?

  9. #9
    BrownBomber's Avatar
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    I have used this same protocol but I used 750ius every Say and Sun. It worked great!! But now i know that 750 is too much too use at once. I plan on using 250 ED for my next cycle.

    BB

  10. #10
    toolman is offline Banned
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    JohnyB, do you shoot the HCG IM or sub Q. I have always shot it IM but alot of guys say sub q is better. I did my first sub q shot of it today and it was strange as Im used to shooting deep into muscle, not just under the skin into fat.

  11. #11
    ItalianMuscle's Avatar
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    thanks for th info.. interesting

  12. #12
    damian's Avatar
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    so...if i got it right this guy proposes this?

    250-500iu HCG 2 days a week during all cycle
    arimidex ED of the cycle
    20 mg nolva ED a month after last injection


    got it right?

  13. #13
    Troyboy is offline Associate Member
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    I am doing a Nolvadex only PCT after my cycle, too much bull**** with clomid.

    I read somewhere that Noladex can be purchased legally, can someone tell me the site?

  14. #14
    JohnnyB's Avatar
    JohnnyB is offline AR-Hall of Famer / Retired
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    Quote Originally Posted by toolman
    JohnyB, do you shoot the HCG IM or sub Q. I have always shot it IM but alot of guys say sub q is better. I did my first sub q shot of it today and it was strange as Im used to shooting deep into muscle, not just under the skin into fat.
    I do it sub-q

    JohnnyB

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