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Thread: Fina FAQ

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    capinatl's Avatar
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    Fina FAQ

    I'm not allowed to post in the Educational Threads forum. Feel free to move/delete me.
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    If your board name is mentioned in this article and you want it removed please contact me at capinatl2@cyber-rights.net. Many of my experiences and beliefs are not commonplace, and that is O.K. We are all free to develop our own opinions.

    KITMAKERS
    The standard conversion potency kits will yield is 75mg trenbolone per ml; however, more and more kitmakers are going to a 100mg/ml yield. Most kitmakers post ďmagic dissolving solutionĒ on their sites as part of their kit which is actually benzyl alcohol, commonly referred to as ďBAĒ. Just about any kitmaker you find on the Internet is probably legit as Iíve yet to hear of any scamming kitmaker. Most people, including myself, have a favorite kitmaker due to service and reputation in the bodybuilding community. Iíve used 5 different kitmakers kits and have achieved cycle results with all kits.

    A few experienced trenbolone conversion users like to make their own kits by purchasing all that is needed from Internet suppliers, and even kitmakers. This is certainly not cheaper or more user friendly, but I think desirable because some trenbolone users develop a very personal relationship with their conversion product. I always suggest buying a kit as itís the easiest, cheapest and safest way to suspend your trenbolone. There is a lot more room for error in your conversion if you assemble the kit yourself. IMO, if you havenít done four or five conversions there is no advantage in producing the kit yourself.

    HOMEBREW VS. PRE-MADE
    When trenbolone is suspended by yourself at home you can be assured of two things; potency and sterility. When you purchase pre-made trenbolone from an underground lab (UG) you cannot be guaranteed of either of these issues. Additionally, the price fro pre-made trenbolone can be outrageous Ė Iíve seen prices from $8 per ml to $14 per ml. Conversion with a kit and Finaplix will const about $2.65 per ml, you will NOT find trenbolone pre-made from a source for less than $5 per ml.

    PELLETS VS. POWDER
    The most common conversion method involves dissolving Finaplix brand pellets, suspending the trenbolone acetate in oil, separating the methylcellulose and filtering the suspended product. With trenbolone acetate in powder form we have the luxury of not dealing with the methylcellulose and simply dissolving and suspending trenbolone in solvents and oil. This method is obviously more desirable and becoming more popular. One security in using Finaplix pellets is you know you are receiving true trenbolone. If you have access to powder be sure you know your source. Whether you use pellets or powder I promise you will benefit from trenbolone results.

    CLOUDY FINA, THE COFFEE FILTER & BAKING
    Cloudy fina is completely fine, just a cosmetic issue; fina legend basskiller has said that if you let the suspended trenbolone sit for a day before filtering with a Whatman filter and/or coffee filter your conversion will come out clearer. Many homebrewers ask if using the coffee filter is necessary Ė it is not. I utilize the coffee filter after Iíve filtered all I can through the Whatman. I pour the leftover sludge into a coffee filter and squeeze out all I can with my fingers and then filter that through the Whatman filter. This can yield another 4 or 5 mls in your conversion. Most coffee filter users pour their whole conversion through the filter which takes all night, and then filters through the Whatman filter for a very clear conversion. I bake my fina for 30 minutes at 250 degrees. Some suggest baking for 45 minutes, and still others suggest baking for 15 minutes, cooling, and repeating two more times. One thing is universal, and that is the baking temperature of 250 degrees. It is brutally important that you obtain an oven thermometer to calibrate your oven to 250 degrees. Rarely have I used an oven that was accurate. In order to destroy your trenbolone you will have to bake it at 400 degrees according to most fina fanatics, so donít worry if you are a few degrees too high.

    CONVERSION MATHEMATICS
    Each Finaplix cartridge contains 2000mg (or 2 grams) or trenbolone acetate, so you would need 2 cartridges for a ď4gĒ kit conversion. The following recipe is intended for a 4g kit: 8ml BA, 42ml oil, and 4000mg (4 grams) of Finaplix pellets. This will yield an end product of 75mg/ml which is the standard conversion. Add your volumes of oil+pellets+BA and divide that number into 4000 for a 4gram kit conversion. 4grams of fina is approximately equal to 4mls.

    8mlBA+4gTREN+42ml oil divided into 4000 = 74.07mg/ml.

    CONVERSION VARIATIONS
    Now, most homebrewers will say that the BA will NOT fully dissolve more than the recommended amount of trenbolone pellets than comes in your kit. For instance, if you use two 2g carts in your 2 g kit you really won't double your potency to 200mg/ml if your kit is designed for 100mg/ml. They will tell you you've wasted a lot of fina. However, I've not seen any tests done on this method of increased potency conversion - so until then I'm somewhat a skeptic. Animal, who is a respected chemist, of sorts, has also said the same thing (that extra carts are a waste). The most trusted method (myself included) of increasing potency strength is to leave out some oil, thus increasing trenbolone ratio to total volume. The biggest negative is that the injections may cause more soreness as the BA ratio is higher than desired by most users. The other problem is that there is skepticism as to whether or not the lower volume of oil will suspend the trenbolone. Once again, I think the jury is out unless someone runs tests.

    I don't have the time or care to invest the money to have my conversions tested for potency, so all I have to go by is my experience with physical results and sides while on fina to determine my likely yield potencies. The last kit I got I modified to reduce pain as I am very sensitive to intramuscular fina shots. I've lowered the amounts of BA and added Benzyl Benzoate (BB) as the BB is reputed to help in post injection soreness. The BB will also dissolve and help sterilize the converted product, but allegedly to a lesser degree than BA (of dissolving power especially). This was my last conversion recipe:

    2mlBA+4mlBB+4gTREN+29ml oil divided into 4000 = 102.5mg/ml.

    This batch was painless, and according to my results was probably under the calculated potency strength of 102.5. I believe this is because I was in a hurry to dissolve and only swirled it for about one hour, and didn't use heat as an aid.

    This is my latest attempt at a high potency conversion:

    2mlBA+6mlBB+6gTREN+26ml oil divided into 6000 = 150mg/ml

    One key thing I've chosen to do differently is to let it dissolve for about three days. I believe that the trenbolone had dissolved nicely, but then I am going solely on visual comparisons to other successful batches I've converted. I also utilized heat just before I completed the conversion as an extra measure. Iíve tested the conversion and could taste the fina even when mixed with testosterone , but until I cycle this conversion alone I canít comment on the potency accuracy.

    DOSAGES
    On my first fina cycle I started with testosterone and 75mg trenbolone EOD and exploded in strength, vascularity and hardness. After a few more cycles with fina and experimenting with dosages ranging from 75mg EOD to 112.5mg ED I have concluded for myself that 150mg EOD is all I desire. At 75mg EOD I receive some results, but nothing outstanding. At 150mg EOD I gain in size, strength, vascularity and hardness Ė however Ė at this dosage I also receive negative side effects like shoulder and lower back cramping, aggression, heartburn, sleeplessness and night sweats. For me, when I begin to get negative side effects I also begin to get positive sides as well. At higher dosages like 112.5mg ED my side effects become unbearable. The muscle cramping pain becomes so intolerable that I often have to stop my workouts, quick in the middle of squat routines, avoid deadlifts, and even totally skip shoulder days. Iíve come to the conclusion that trenbolone dosage is a unique balance of sides vs. results. Once the sides prevent me from achieving my workout goals or force me to modify my routine drastically, itís time to cut back.

    I have a good friend who included trenbolone in his second cycle at 100mg EOD with testosterone and told me he wanted to go to 100mg ED. To this day I still regret replying with a simple, ďO.K.Ē as his side effects went through the roof. His aggression and attitude changed so much that his mother said to her normally laid back son, ďWhat happened to my son? I donít even know you anymore!Ē He said he couldnít control himself around his family and girlfriend and unfortunately both relationships dissolved before his cycle completion. Now there are a few on the boards who have done 150mg ED, but all Iíve been in direct contact with have said those high doses have left them with a sour taste for trenbolone. My friend wonít even consider using trenbolone again.

    CYCLE DURATION
    Iíve done fina for 8 week cycles and even as long as 20 weeks. Post-cycle recovery has not been an issue for me at either duration. Kendahl69 has some lengthy experience with a propionate and fina cycle and Iíve not heard a negative word about fina from him either. As with any AAS, cycle duration decisions have more to do with post-cycle recovery experience and stats than any other factor.

    A great cycle might look like this:

    Wk 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
    Wk 1-6 Testosterone Enanthate 500mg wk
    Wk 1-8 Trenbolone Acetate 75mg EOD

    A next level cycle might look like this:

    Wk 1-4 Dianabol 30mg ED
    Wk 1-8 Testosterone Enanthate 750mg wk
    Wk 1-10 Trenbolone Acetate 150mg EOD
    Wk 1-13 Arimidex .25mg EOD

    My favorite fina cycle:

    Wk 1-4 Anadrol 50mg ED
    Wk 1-10 Testosterone Enanthate 250mg EOD (875wk)
    Wk 1-12 Trenbolone Acetate 150mg EOD
    Wk 1-15 Arimidex .50mg EOD
    Wk 1-12 Bromocriptine 1.25mg BID
    (Normally I've started and ended this cycle with Prop, but for simplicities sake I've posted it as is.)

    CLOMID POST CYCLE
    Day 1 - 300mgs
    Day 2 - 200mgs
    Days 3-14 - 100mg x 12 days
    Days 15-21 - 50mgs x 7 days

    NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS
    As with any androgenic anabolic steroid (AAS) side effects include acne, hairloss, high blood pressure, shutdown of endogenous testosterone production and more uniquely; sleeplessness, night sweats, aggression, and shoulder and/or lower back muscle pain. I am one that is very prone to male pattern baldness and have had not lost one hair while on any cycle, including trenbolone. For heartburn I find a jar of Tums will get me through the cycle. Iíve tried Melatonin, a natural sleep aid, with moderate success. The most uncomfortable side effect I get is the shoulder and lower back muscle pain. Many refer to this as a cramp, but itís more of an endless burn. Drinking 1.5 gallons of water per day has helped me moderately. BillyGman has suggested to many to utilize 500mg of Magnesium bi-daily (BID) and avoid the urban legend of Potassium to reduce muscle cramping. There are quite a few board members who have found Magnesium helpful. Iíve tried the Magnesium BID with moderate success.

    FINA COUGH
    Many fina users experience the dreaded fina cough eventually. I do believe some are more prone to the cough than others. G-S has done 400 fina injections with only one fina cough experience. I get the cough on almost every inject. There is a lot of speculation as to the catalyst of the fina cough and equal speculation to the validity of each argument. Many people say itís the solvent, benzyl alcohol, but because ďBAĒ is used in numerous other injectables as a solvent with no symptomatic cough I doubt this theory. I find it more likely that it is an issue directly related to trenbolone acetate, or possibly as has also been suggested on the boards by Hugh, a combination of the solvent and trenbolone. One preventative measure to fina cough Iíve found to be successful is to slow down the injection as soon as I get the ďalcoholĒ taste in my mouth; pause and continue the injection and I can avoid the cough entirely. The most fail-proof preventative action is to mix the trenbolone with testosterone/equipoise or another injectable. Most often my fina/test cycles consist of 150mg EOD fina and 875mg test wk, so mixing 1.5mls trenbolone and 1ml of test enanthate EOD is not only a powerful cycle, but one that maintains consistent blood levels with no fina cough at all. [there are some great new posts on PGF2 levels and the fina cough]

    FINA DICK
    Unless you are a monk in the Himalayas you are probably concerned with maintaining your erectile function at maximum capacity. Like deca (deca dick), trenbolone is a powerful androgenic anabolic steroid and will shut down your HPTA (hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular-axis) with authority. Most users that do the mistaken fina only cycle find their erectile function ceases around week 5 or 6 of their cycle. There is a small minority of fina only cyclers that claim they actually have a sex drive increase while on fina, but I promise you this is a minority. One board member Iíve known, NeverDie, experienced an additional emotional rollercoaster he wouldnít wish on his worst enemy. Stacking testosterone with trenbolone will prevent any erectile dysfunction, even at 250mg per week, but for better cycle results 500mg per week is highly suggested. Most importantly, the synergistic effect of combining testosterone with trenbolone will yield substantial results in your cycle.

    FINA, DECA & BROMOCRIPTINE
    Because both trenbolone and deca durabolin increase prolactin levels they are not suggested to stack together. Estrogen related side effects are considerably easier to combat than progesterone related side effects. There are a few users who stack the two together, and even one underground lab that makes a fina & deca blend as one of their premier products - but you wonít see me test any. Bromocriptine is prescribed to Parkinson Disease patients and is an affordable prolactin blocker (Dostinex is another). A lot of fina users take bromocriptine at 1.25mg BID to combat high prolactin levels, and is often said to strictly follow that dosage as any more than that reduces IGF-1 levels, but Iíve seen no study confirming this statement. From what Iíve learned I donít believe bromocriptine is even necessary for doses of 75mg ED and lower. If you are one of the rare users that experience bloating on fina then you will likely find bromocriptine beneficial, but probably not necessary to block prolactin levels. There is a lot of talk on the boards that gynocomastia caused by high progesterone levels cannot be combated with nolvadex , but I donít believe this to be accurate as estrogen must be present in order to induce gynocomastia. Delving into these subjects further would require another article.

    TYPICAL TRENBOLONE CYCLE RESULTS
    Any experienced AS user knows it is impossible to predict someoneís anticipated results from any steroid cycle, let alone trenbolone. Often trenbolone is stacked with testosterone and an oral to kickstart the cycle and many will say a cycle as such can be a bulker or a cutter depending on diet. Personally I find I get true ďquality gainsĒ with trenbolone; meaning for the most part what I get on cycle I pretty much keep. Usually I even find my strength 6 weeks post cycle is what it was during my cycle peak. A lot of users simply blow up on a fina/test cycle. Certainly strength, vascularity and hardness are common to all who use fina, and should be expected Ė but as far a weight gain goes Ė this cannot be answered.

    FOR THE NEWBIE?
    I believe most will disagree with me here, but I donít think I made any great mistake including trenbolone in my first cycle. I studied and researched trenbolone and concluded that the benefit vs. side effect ratio was ideal, even if trenbolone was the most androgenic steroid available. I was aware that trenbolone had caused female fry fish to change gender and was only allowed to be used in cattle just prior to slaughter, but stacked with test Ė it was a hard to beat ďbang for buckĒ cycle, and I still feel this way. If you are a first time user and decide to go over 75mg EOD - thatís your own decision Ė and not one recommended by most fina users. Be careful and watch your sides. Just like any other AAS, this is not a game so be safe.

    -capinatl
    Last edited by capinatl; 10-14-2004 at 01:28 PM.

  2. #2
    monster.'s Avatar
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    Excellent man, Thank you very much

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    Taejoon's Avatar
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    I don't like those cycles, running Fina past test will make recovery horrible, PCT after Tren is hard enough when you come off the Fina before the test. I can't imagine what it would be like coming off of the Tren straight up. No thanks

    Peace

    -Taejoon

  4. #4
    capinatl's Avatar
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    But what we're talking about here is timing the half-lives of the esters. Enanthate 2wks and acetate 3days. Ideally, as stated, finishing the cycle with test prop will synch with the tren half-life - can't beat that.

  5. #5
    Lord Humungous's Avatar
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    Cycle length aside, it's still a ****ed good post.

    -LH

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    bitchin post.. finally someone who agrees with me that fina can be used eod with great success

  7. #7
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    cool. i've done one cycle and it included tren ...i liked it...=)

    good post.

    -- clocky

  8. #8
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    Vitamin B6 is equally effective and has fewer side effects than bromo. You might want to not alternatives to Bromo, because on top of being more difficult and expensive than most other anciliaries, it has many side effects.

  9. #9
    capone76 is offline New Member
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    cap that was an awesome post man, thanks alot. i'm just getting ready to start a cycle with tren , eq, var, prop.lol
    capone

  10. #10
    Pheedno is offline Respected Member
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    Even with the active life match up, I still think it's best to run Test a couple wks past the Tren for recovery reasons. Matter of preference only.


    There is a lot of talk on the boards that gynocomastia caused by high progesterone levels cannot be combated with nolvadex, but I donít believe this to be accurate as estrogen must be present in order to induce gynocomastia
    Yes and no
    Progesterone is produced in ratio to estrogen, so a dip in estrogen, can produce a rise in progesterone.
    Also, both prolactin and progesterone receptors are found in the mammery gland and can casue gyno
    Progesterone is an E2 agonist though, so by blocking the E2 recptor, you help in reducing progesterone.

    Progesterone is over exagerated anyway


    FINA COUGH
    Is caused by prostaglandins and luekotriens produced by the Lipoxygenase pathway.

  11. #11
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
    Mr. Sparkle is offline Slinabolic Vet / Retired
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    Does anyone else run 75mg EOD with good results? I have always heard to run it 75ng ED.

    -MS

  12. #12
    Mr. Sparkle's Avatar
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    anyone?

  13. #13
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    My first cycle of tren I ran EOD, I blew up. 100 mg/EOD and I put on 21 lbs in eight weeks. I'll be running it again in a couple of weeks, but this time I'll be doing 50 mg/ED, we'll see if I notice a difference from EOD injects.

    Peace

    -Taejoon

  14. #14
    Sigmund Froid is offline Associate Member
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    Excellent post! Well done! I agree with everything in this article, and think it is a great, very concise, topic by topic, approach useful to the newbie and vet alike. Your personal anecdotes are useful and informative. I'd like to see you write some more articles. I also agree that there is nothing wrong with a newbie using trenbolone . Like anything, it is simply a matter of being careful and well-informed.

    Fina is a cheap and safe approach to steroids .

    -SF

  15. #15
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    Nice informational post. Didnt see this during my research on fina. Got to bump this up.

  16. #16
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    bromocriptine

    what the avg. doseage for bromo?

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    There seem to be a lot of questions on Tren lately. Iím bumping this one for members to read, or re-read.

    BUMBity BUMP BUMP.

    Doc

  18. #18
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    Nice post.....

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    bump

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    Duncan_floyd is offline New Member
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    Bump !!finally Some One Else Agree's You Can!!! Make Awesome Gains On Looww Dosages!!!!!!!!! This Isn't A Game ..respect The Drug.. Respect Your Body

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    Bump !!finally Some One Else Agree's You Can!!! Make Awesome Gains On Looww Dosages!!!!!!!!! This Isn't A Game ..respect The Drug.. Respect Your Body

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    Bump

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    Jackman's Avatar
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    good read bump

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    DPERDE2 is offline New Member
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    This is my first time taking a fina <component TH> cycle. What form of test should I take with it? SUST, T-4 or Pro, etc.

  26. #26
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    Great post, i'll be throwing som fina in my next cycle and have been trying to find som quality reading on such as this, thanks bro!

  27. #27
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    Great post, im currently 2weeks into a Test/Tren cycle right now. This was a great read for me, Thanks...

  28. #28
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    good stuff here...bump for cappy

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    Quote Originally Posted by capinatl
    But what we're talking about here is timing the half-lives of the esters. Enanthate 2wks and acetate 3days. Ideally, as stated, finishing the cycle with test prop will synch with the tren half-life - can't beat that.
    If we're talking Half Life here, then why ignore it and run an ester that is less than a day with EOD injects?
    2 weeks and 3 days? that's "Active" life, not half life.
    TSW

  30. #30
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    Steroid esters Drug Active half-life
    Formate 1.5 days
    Acetate 3 days
    Propionate 4.5 days
    Phenylpropionate 4.5 days (dont believe this is correct)
    Butyrate 6 days
    Valerate 7.5 days
    Hexanoate 9 days
    Caproate 9 days
    Isocaproate 9 days
    Heptanoate 10.5 days
    Enanthate 10.5 days
    Octanoate 12 days
    Cypionate 12 days
    Nonanoate 13.5 days
    Decanoate 15 days
    Undecanoate 16.5 days


    Depot steroids Drug Active half-life
    Deca -durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 15 days
    Equipoise 14 days
    Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days
    Primobolan (methenolone enanthate) 10.5 days
    Sustanon or Omnadren 15 to 18 days
    Testosterone Cypionate 12 days
    Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days
    Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days
    Testosterone Suspension 1 day
    Winstrol (stanozolol ) 1 day

    I can't say I fully understand your statement, but in a nutshell I like to have all my AAS hormones dropping off the chart at a relative rate previous to PCT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by animal-inside
    bitchin post.. finally someone who agrees with me that fina can be used eod with great success
    Nope...Fina Half Life requires ED injects for optimal results.
    If you had "Great" results w/EOD injects, all this means is you would've had even better ones w/ED injects - Straight up.
    TSW

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    Quote Originally Posted by capinatl
    Steroid esters Drug Active half-life
    Formate 1.5 days
    Acetate 3 days
    Propionate 4.5 days
    Phenylpropionate 4.5 days (dont believe this is correct)
    Butyrate 6 days
    Valerate 7.5 days
    Hexanoate 9 days
    Caproate 9 days
    Isocaproate 9 days
    Heptanoate 10.5 days
    Enanthate 10.5 days
    Octanoate 12 days
    Cypionate 12 days
    Nonanoate 13.5 days
    Decanoate 15 days
    Undecanoate 16.5 days


    Depot steroids Drug Active half-life
    Deca -durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 15 days
    Equipoise 14 days
    Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days
    Primobolan (methenolone enanthate) 10.5 days
    Sustanon or Omnadren 15 to 18 days
    Testosterone Cypionate 12 days
    Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days
    Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days
    Testosterone Suspension 1 day
    Winstrol (stanozolol ) 1 day

    I can't say I fully understand your statement, but in a nutshell I like to have all my AAS hormones dropping off the chart at a relative rate previous to PCT.
    No..."Active Life" and "Half Life" are TWO different things....the term "Active Half Life" is incredibly deceptive.
    If Propionate's Half Life was 4.5 days, we'd all be running Prop at E4D injects etc etc etc.
    TSW

  33. #33
    capinatl's Avatar
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    I agree that EDs are better with fina, however, I've done quite well on EODs and have posted my before and after pics from my first fina/test cycle in 2002 to show it.

    I'm not going to debate the ED vs EOD as it's been beaten to death on the boards, but both work, and likely ED even better - but not a requirement.

  34. #34
    chuck's Avatar
    chuck is offline Junior Member
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    Great post very informative. thanks bro

  35. #35
    MASStermind's Avatar
    MASStermind is offline Banned
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    good post, bump

  36. #36
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    Awesome info bro,

  37. #37
    Lozgod's Avatar
    Lozgod is offline Anabolic Member
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    bump. great post

  38. #38
    TreNgoD's Avatar
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    good info bro. this will help me with my conversion im doin tonight.

  39. #39
    Basilus's Avatar
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    Man I can't wait to try some Tren , better watch out Saluu theres gonna be a new monkey in town.

  40. #40
    Slick Vic is offline New Member
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    VERY good post! Right on! Thanks a lot.

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