12-18-2003, 08:26 AM #1
Gear USe Truisisms By Iron Addict
Not sure if it's been posted on here before or not, but thought I'd share it.......
As Truisms-by Iron Addict
Gear Use Truisms
I was on another board reading the many posts by people that really don't understand some of the basic truisms of AS use and decided to write a few of these ALMOST universal "isms" down.
1. The more gear you do the more you grow. Sorry I know many of you didn't want to hear that but it's a fact. While going from 500 mgs a week to 1000 may not double your gains it will increase them (assuming training and nutrition are in order) and going from a gram to 2 grams a week will again probably not double your gains but again will increase them.
2. Something happens when mega-dosing (2+ grams a week) that simply does not occur at lower doses. Magic starts!
3. For growth heavy androgens are the way to go for 80% of trainees. This means a test base with fina, d-ball, adrol, or EQ. Primo, deca , anavar , winny etc have their uses but NEVER supply the bang for the buck of the heavy hitters and never equate to the growth of the big-boys. If you can't grow on test, tren , and d-ball take up bowling, you ain't gonna grow. Quit searching for exotic roids that you think will somehow catapult you to the next level. The basics are where it's at. The only thing that grows better on the light anabolics is your suppliers wallet!
4. Shots should NOT hurt, or hurt VERY LITTLE! If the mg per ml ratio is correct for the gear/ester a shot should not be painful and should not cause swelling. ALL common gear (in oil, water based suspensions are a different animal) flows absolutely fine through a 25 gauge pin and if you can give me one reason to use anything else I would be stupefied! It is NOT the amount of oil that causes pain, it is the solvent content. MORE IS NOT BETTER!
5. MANY, MANY people are simply not bothered by est related sides. I see posts all the time by people that have just always assumed they had to use anti-e's and have never even done a cycle without them. If you are not sure you should certainly have them on hand in case, and they should always be used post-cycle but why use them if they are not needed? I have NEVER used anti-e's during a cycle even when doing 3 grams a week test. I have NEVER had any est related problem. Even when doing synovex with the est left in. Probably 80% of people do need anti-e protection but if you don't need it why are you doing it? All anti-e's reduce the anabolic effects of gear to some degree.
6. Doing gear does NOT stop overtraining from occurring, it greatly reduces its effects but EVERYONE still has a point (volume/frequency) at which overtraining occurs. THE BIGGEST SINGLE REASON PEOPLE DO NOT GROW IS THEY OVERTRAIN, PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION! I always suggest doing a routine that someone knows they can grow on when not juicing then the gear will amplify the training results. Most people overtrain and don't grow optimally or at all.
7. After your first couple of cycles each subsequent cycle has diminishing returns. You lose a large percentage of your gains post cycle. Don't tell me you keep all or most of your gains. If it worked that way the average guy starting out at 170 that gained 20 lbs each cycle and kept 15 would only need to do 6 cycles spread out over two years to be a 260 lb FREAK. It don't work that way sorry!
8. The big boys (competitive Bodybuilders and powerlifters) generally stay on year round. I know many of you didn't want to hear this.....sorry! That is how they avoid the weight yo-yo's and consistently go up.
9. The toxicity of orals is SEVERELY OVERSTATED. I have never talked to or exchanged information with someone that actually had blood-work done while on that still thought they were toxic. The people that will tell you how poison they are have NEVER been tested while doing them. I have done d-ball for over a year strait at 75+ mgs per day while being tested. No problems. They should still be used cautiously but until you have had blood-work done you have no idea how they will effect you. Nonetheless people recommending only using them for 4 weeks are ****ing clueless!
10. The longer you stay on, the better chance you have of keeping the gains you make. It takes the body some time to acclimate to the new muscle mass. People that do little mini cycles tend to be yo-yo’s bodyweight wise.
11. How you come off is VITALLY important to how much of the mass you retain. Have a proper game plan and execute faithfully. I hate watching someone totally decompose because they ****ed up post cycle so bad.
12. NO ONE CAN TELL YOU HOW MUCH SIZE AND STRENGTH YOU SHOULD/WILL GAIN ON A CYCLE. QUIT ASKING!
13. NO ONE CAN PREDICT WHAT SIDE EFFECTS YOU WILL INCUR, QUIT ASKING!
14. NO ONE CAN TELL YOU HOW MUCH YOU WILL LOSE POST-CYCLE, QUIT ASKING.
15. All these things can only be learned in retrospect AFTER you have tried. Your individual metabolism is unique onto itself. You will never know until you try.
16. All AS work best in a calorie and macro/micro nutrient overabundance environment. If you are not getting 2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight while “on” and training heavy you are ****ing yourself out of gains. Quit bitching your not growing. Step up to the dinner plate or go home.
17. All this said IF your training routine and diet are correct you don’t need lots of gear for great results. I often get new trainees that gain more training natural with a great routine and diet than they did on their last cycle.
More to follow.....
12-18-2003, 08:34 AM #2
I enjoyed the post. Some things may be up for debate but one more piece information will help everyone make a better educated choice.
12-18-2003, 11:03 AM #3
I'll be keeping up with this one...1st hand experience is much more valuable to me than 3rd 4th or even 5th hand.........
12-18-2003, 11:48 AM #4Respected Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Miller's Crossing
#1 & 2 I disagree with. Their comes apoint with everyone where sides begin to increase more than the gains. It's up to the individual to find that mark. More is not always better
#5 I disagree with, anti-e use brings other effects besides protection from estrogenic sides. Reduction of edema, SERM benefits to lipid profile, BP reduction, redcution of fat accumulation, and increased gonatrophin concentrations(see study below)
#12- I can ball park it
#13- I can list the possiblities for preperation
Aromatase inhibitors in men
The effect of aromatase inhibition on male gonadotrophin and sex steroid concentrations is illustrated in the paper by Trunet et al. (1993): 2.5 mg letrozole suppressed plasma oestradiol concentrations to less than 50% of pretreatment after 2 days, with recovery to approximately pretreatment values after 6 days. These decreases were accompanied by increased gonadotrophin concentrations, with resultant increases of approximately 50% in plasma testosterone . These results, and those previously published (Bhatnagar et al. 1992) on the effects of fadrozole in men, indicate that the aromatization pathway is of major importance in the regulation of gonodotrophin secretion by aromatically androgens
12-18-2003, 11:59 AM #5
Interesting read. I definitely think longer with lower doses works better. People also have to remember this is HIS opinion with his experiences. Everyone reacts differently.
12-18-2003, 12:22 PM #6
I've read this before a few times on a couple differnet sites. # 2 always puzzled me, what is the magic he talks about? I don't believe just bcuz your shooting mega doses that your going to just sprout up and grow like a weed.
12-18-2003, 02:06 PM #7
I think longer is better cause your body needs to adjust to your new muscle.
12-18-2003, 02:19 PM #8
Originally Posted by nj juice
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
- Blog Entries
12-18-2003, 02:20 PM #9
I stayed on 5 months my last cycle and did get better gains... but I personally wouldn't stay on any longer than that because at some point your nuts will start to atrophy.
03-20-2005, 04:53 PM #10
bump. good read
03-20-2005, 05:24 PM #11
I dont have a problem with any of what he just said.
I just recently had the balls to admit it to myself... I fixed my diet, and stopped all my bad habits and doubled all my doseages ( still low considering cycles I have seen )...
Now I have finally sparked some growth that I never thought possible.... I am saving a copy of this on my desktop...
03-20-2005, 05:34 PM #12
The only one i totally disagree with is not using anti e's.
03-20-2005, 05:38 PM #13
I agree with the anti-E's. SERMS do not themselves improve lipid levels. It is the fact they dont block the coversion of test in to estrogen. It is the estrogen that causes the favorable lipid levels. If there is no pre-disposition to gyno, I do not see the need for them.
03-20-2005, 05:49 PM #14
This is a good read. I will also be saving this one. Bump
03-20-2005, 06:27 PM #15
I've seen this a few times as well...
I've always wondered about that magic 2gram a week idea! Any more feedback in that regard?
03-20-2005, 06:34 PM #16
bump! But would you use less doses for a longer period of time? or the same mg.
03-20-2005, 07:38 PM #17Originally Posted by buylongterm
Yeah. It is just as much art as it is science. There is often more than one path to the same goal. Many "rules" are open to different interpretations in light of one's own peculiar physiology and particularly reactions to a given drug, training regimen, or dietary details.
I think the important thing above all else is to have a sensible plan and stick to it, and stay focused, precise, and intense. We can argue points minor and major and still have a philosophy and a training/pharmaceutical/dietary regimen that works well for the individual.
I would call everyone's attention to "Pumping Iron" as an example. Ferrigno trained in a very similar style to how I train... tight form, short or non-existent lockouts or hangs, deliberate cadence with emphasis on the negative, using good form rather than max weights to maximize stress and recruitment in the muscle. Arnold just slammed the friggin weight around, often pausing in lockout between reps near the end of a set. By my quite sensible training style, Arnold was doing a LOT of things wrong. BUT... who won the Sandow? Who can argue that the man didn't have an awesome physique? Tevite Ahololei (spelling?) prefers very high reps. Dorian Yates contends that he made his best gains doing a single working set of each exercise. Lee Priest favors hammering a body part with a lot of sets. I have trained with a 10 part split, training every day, and made pretty good gains. I have used a very low volume 3 part split, training every day, and made pretty good gains. I have done full body, low volume, training twice a week and made good gains. I have done 3 and 4 part splits, training every other or every third day, and did well. One can have faith in a particular way of doing things, based on their past results, or the results of others, and do as well as another person using quite different methods. The common denominator of those who truly shine is determination, focus, intensity! Almost all of the details, in lieu of tightly controlled experiments involving a statistically large number of subjects, are ART, and not necessarily science.
I personally take issue with many points in the original post. I also concede that SOMEBODY out there is probably having tremendous success with an identical credo. Faith in one's methods, unless they are truly, truly WRONG, will make a wide variety of programs work. That faith is a key ingredient in developing focus and intensity. The details, in and of themselves, aren't always important. The points we argue, we usually argue because both sides of an argument have "proven" merit.
I do enjoy participating in, or reading, discussions of opposing views on meds, training, etc. I have learned a lot from them, and when I try something new, it is usually something I have heard or read in just such a discussion. Passionately presented opposing views make observers, and sometimes the participants, think and consider alternatives and benefits.
03-22-2005, 01:09 AM #18
good post i'm gonna forward this to a few geniuses at my gym so they can leave me alone and stop asking me why they only grew 7lbs on test
03-22-2005, 01:18 AM #19
At those doses I hope that guy is still around in a few years. He better be a pro-why would you put your body/wallet through that otherwise.
03-22-2005, 01:25 AM #20
Well, finally a post about AS's that I can wholeheartedly agree with......
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