Keeping Receptors clean on long cycles.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-10-2004, 12:23 PM

What is the best way, aside from switching gear, to keep Receptor Downregulation to a minimum?
I am in week 9 of two 16 week cycles, with 40 days of PCT between the two.
My problem lies in lack of growth in comparison to early on in the cycle, and the cycle before.
I've been sleeping better than usual, and eating approximately 4,500 Calories per day, with 350-425 gms of Protein per day, with 80 -100 coming from Whey.
I have experienced this type of problem in years past on cycles 16 weeks or longer, however back then I was more likely to continue running the same or similar estered drugs (not mixing it up much as the cycle progressed) just upping doses as the cycle lengthened. This time I have switched drugs somewhat, yet I'm seemingly starting to Plateau.
Now, I've read NUMEROUS theories on "Fooling" receptors, but have yet to find a "Believable" study on cleaning them out "as you go" (I said believable)
Anybody?
Thanks,
TSW
*Note: I did NOT test between cycles (Baaaad habit of mine I know)

***Pheedno*** · 01-10-2004, 01:01 PM

Receptors don't downregulate

***asymmetrical1*** · 01-10-2004, 01:02 PM

good post, this happens to me too....i only run long cycles, and plateau quite often....only ways i keep growing are 1. throwing tren in the end, always grow there.. 2. using different orals to mid cycle jumpstart, like 100mg drol ed midcycle

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-10-2004, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Pheedno

Receptors don't downregulate

Hmmmm, well, I was jumping aroung the net, and I stumbled across an article (wish I'd saved it) that used this exact term (not that this means a thing) and receptor saturation is what I figured the Author meant by that term?

***Pheedno*** · 01-10-2004, 01:21 PM

Receptors do saturate, but they upregulate with saturation(meaning multiply) so saturation is a good thing.

Cause of gains slowing. Simple- Food

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-10-2004, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Pheedno

Receptors do saturate, but they upregulate with saturation(meaning multiply) so saturation is a good thing.

Cause of gains slowing. Simple- Food

Well, with that said, it's appears I'm at an impass with my diet.
The only way I can up the calories and stay clean is with shakes or MRP's...I just can't eat anymore than I am now.
Any suggestions?

**Warrior** · 01-10-2004, 01:50 PM

The receptors don't downregulate - and a big role in AAS effects on increasing LBM has nothing to do with androgen receptors but rather the cross-over binding to glucocorticoid receptors (stopping cortisol catabolism). But very one big factor if you want to keep gaining weight is you have to keep increasing the calories as you go (your BMR keeps increasing as you gain weight) - you wouldn't eat the same amount of calories in the beginning as you would after putting on another 15 pounds or so of LBM.

...supraphysiologic androgen levels amoung men can further increase muscle mass and strength (Bhasin et al., 1996), perhaps from nonreceptor-mediated effects (Byerley et al., 1993). <-- referring to further increases in genetic potentials...

**Mr. Death** · 01-10-2004, 01:53 PM

Pheedno is right. With long term or high dose cycles the body creates more receptors for that specific compound. Other than diet, the problem may also be that your body has gotton used to the dosage you are using. Have you used this gear at the same dosage before this cycle?

**Rickson** · 01-10-2004, 01:57 PM

Your body can only grow so much in a period of time before it has to begin a renormalization process. This is not a bad thing and should be expected in any long cycle. It is the bodies way of beginning to grow accustomed to a new set point and build the necessary tendon and ligament strength along with nutrient pathways to allow for the added mass. If you could continue to grow throughout cycles at the rapid rate you do in the beginning and never lose then there would be a lot of 500lb monsters running around. It just isn't humanly possibles.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-10-2004, 02:02 PM

I bumped (from first cycle to this one) from 600 to 750 (Test) 300 to 500 Deca , than switch to Tren 75mg ED and EQ 400 EW with Test remaining at 750...I did switch from Cyp to Enth though, and I'm About to end with some Omna's I got for almost nothin' - 250mg EOD with I Prop shot (50mgs) ED in between the EOD Omna shots (I almost didn't say that, but believe it or not I've had good results from that little trick in the past) then I will end with Prop/Tren 100mg/100mg ED.
(I was playing with my body this time around, I was off for 3 years, and wanted to try some old and new things to see how I reacted) this is my third since coming back to the game.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-10-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rickson

Your body can only grow so much in a period of time before it has to begin a renormalization process. This is not a bad thing and should be expected in any long cycle. It is the bodies way of beginning to grow accustomed to a new set point and build the necessary tendon and ligament strength along with nutrient pathways to allow for the added mass. If you could continue to grow throughout cycles at the rapid rate you do in the beginning and never lose then there would be a lot of 500lb monsters running around. It just isn't humanly possibles.

Well, (I agree BTW Rickson) but HOW DO Pro Monster keep it up for literally YEARS on end without 3-4 Grams per week?
There are a couple of guys near me that haven't "really" been "off" in nearly 3 years, so they say, and they look it.
Besides monster doses, what IS the "real" trick to this?, I've tried many, and found Nothing that would keep gains going quite that long.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-11-2004, 03:05 AM

BTW, when I say "first" cycle above, I mean 1st of the 2 cycles a month apart, not THE first...Thought I'd clear that up..LOL

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 01-11-2004, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Rickson

Your body can only grow so much in a period of time before it has to begin a renormalization process. This is not a bad thing and should be expected in any long cycle. It is the bodies way of beginning to grow accustomed to a new set point and build the necessary tendon and ligament strength along with nutrient pathways to allow for the added mass. If you could continue to grow throughout cycles at the rapid rate you do in the beginning and never lose then there would be a lot of 500lb monsters running around. It just isn't humanly possibles.

Thats not what I saw on Maury the other day....wouldnt call it LBM though, more like FBM.

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 01-11-2004, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by TheSevnthWarrior

Well, (I agree BTW Rickson) but HOW DO Pro Monster keep it up for literally YEARS on end without 3-4 Grams per week?
There are a couple of guys near me that haven't "really" been "off" in nearly 3 years, so they say, and they look it.
Besides monster doses, what IS the "real" trick to this?, I've tried many, and found Nothing that would keep gains going quite that long.

FOOD.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-11-2004, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

FOOD.

Dang man, I'm tryin'!
I feel like that's ALL I do! Usually I'm not even hungy when I eat, I just eat because I'm counting, and the numbers say it's time.
If I eat anymore I'll pop!....How about just more shakes??

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 01-11-2004, 03:16 AM

haha.....Its hard to remeber what it was like to have to cram food down. You get used to it though Ill tell ya that. Now I have trouble not eating too much! Ill eat a full meal and be hungry again in 20 minutes. ITs rediculous sometimes.

I can stick my abdomen out farther than a pregnant woman though lol...I dont have a gut or anything, just big stomach I guess...must have stretched some. It dont stick out unless I push it out though so I like it

Anyways, sure add some shakes. I take in near 2000-3000 cals post workout when shear bulking. Decently clean at that...

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-11-2004, 03:22 AM

Man.. you must be young..LOL
I used to be able to do that 10-15 years ago...(I"m dating myself here) but it's harder now.
How in the WORLD do you get 2-3K post workout Cals in and stay clean???? And how much Protein is in that 2-3K...I mean after about 50-60gms, (every2 hours or so) you're gettin' fat right?

***Billy_Bathgate*** · 01-11-2004, 03:34 AM

Nah, I very rarely see an increase in bf on any cycle...its usually just at holidays and slow times of the year lol oh, and lots of rALA... I am 23, that may help a tad, but I dont think that much. Cardio is limited to how do you say...things with the lady

My shake alone has about 600-700 cals..60ish protien. While thats digesting post workout...start up supper time..

Then just imagine a really good meal. Big fat peice of meat, some huge helping of brocolli or green beans or your pick of choice,usually a little bit of wheat bread or pumpernickle somewhere in there, a medium little salad pre-meal, throw in a big fat potato....clean up all my mess and follow up with another plain protien shake.

Its not chicken and rice clean, but very lean meats and low GI complex carbs dont cause me to store much fat.

**** im hungry...brb lol

Before I started cycling ever, I rember I could barely eat. Im talking 2 slices of pizza even filled me up.

By the 6th week of my first cycle, I remeber I was downing 3 triple cheese from BK post workout lol

Add in 12.5mcg T3 and see if that helps you put more away.

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 01-11-2004, 03:44 AM

Hmmm, I think you may have just hit on my problem?
It didn't help my appetite much, but I am tapering off the T-3 now, I'm thinking I wasn't keeping up with it, I got leaner for sure, but stopped growing...I'm down to .5 now using Cycleons way.
Hey, speakin' of "thing with the Lady"...have you tried LR"s Liquid Steel...check out my Thread about it, I just "got done" ! ...LOL ; )

**iron4life79** · 01-11-2004, 09:12 AM

TSW,
this ended up being a great thread, and you got some of the big dogs on this board to chime in with responses.

tap 'em for all you can bro.

i'll bump it for ya.......

peace I4L