Gonna stick myself, need some advice.

Hello all,

I've been thinking about juice for a few years now and have finally
decided to do a cycle. First off, i've been training since I was 18 (now 25)
on and off. For the last year i've been pretty steady and making decent
gains in strength and size. I'm 5'7" , 190lbs , 15-20% bodyfat, 16.5" arms,
25.5" legs, 15" calves and feel good. I'm currently doing 80lbs dumbell press
for shoulders, squatting 3 plates, deadlifting 3+10k, and incline dumbell
press 90lbs. Diet is composed of mainly 60% protein, 20% fibrous carbs, 20%
efa's.

I currently have access to some nice norma deca and can get a decent variety
of other stuff. What i'm wondering is, what to do the deca with? Now I know
it's recommended that you use test with it, but I'm really not sure if it will
give me the look I want. I'm not interested in gaining 20lbs if i'm smooth all
over and holding water. I'm seeking to add 15-20lbs of ripped with that nice
super muscular look, with the veins popping out of the delts look ;)

So would anyone recommend deca + winstrol tabs as a good first cycle.
Or what about using deca + sust250, and then using clomid+nolvadex as
well?

Any thoughts on what a decent first cycle would be, and how I could avoid
the bloated beached whale look ?

If your making decent gains, then I'd stick with what your doing. Wait untill you hit a plataue.

For a first cycle, Test by itself is all you need
250mg Enan E4D
PCT 14 days after last injection

You came to the right place to start researching....... For your first cycle you should only run a long acting estered test like Cyp or Enan........ You should do some research on anti-e's (help with bloat and other estrogen related sides) like nolvadex, ameridex, proviron, liquidex.......... Also, research PCT.... if PCT isn't done then you can be certain that you will lose all your gains.

One last thing the gear is only there to help you reach your goals...... if you want to grow you need to eat like you want to grow..... if you want to get ripped then you need to have cardio and diet in check.

I agree with Pheedno....keep lifting naturally until you hit a plateau. Why start AS now if you're already making steady gains? With that in mind, your body fat is a tad high now. Your diet sounds good...some morning cardio 3-4 times a week would help you get down to 10-12%, which would be a better time to run that cutting cycle, IMO. Test prop, winny, and eq would be my choice at that time. You won't get too bloated on these...now there are some steroids, like dbol, that will make your head look like a pumpkin but you can take anti-es like TheMudMan mentioned to combat this. I like liquidex for bloat reduction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheMudMan

One last thing the gear is only there to help you reach your goals...... if you want to grow you need to eat like you want to grow..... if you want to get ripped then you need to have cardio and diet in check.

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Well looky there.... you were listening to all my preaching. :D

Mudman is right.... diet and workouts need to be in check before you use AS. SOundsl ike you're on the right path... I say keep going natural and see how far it gets ya first. You've only been hitting it hard for about a year. I highly recommend hitting it steadily for about 5 years before any AS use. Find your natural potential first than add in AS... you'll be much happier with the reults if you follow our advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIG TEXAN

Well looky there.... you were listening to all my preaching. :D

Mudman is right.... diet and workouts need to be in check before you use AS. SOundsl ike you're on the right path... I say keep going natural and see how far it gets ya first. You've only been hitting it hard for about a year. I highly recommend hitting it steadily for about 5 years before any AS use. Find your natural potential first than add in AS... you'll be much happier with the reults if you follow our advice.

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:lol: Had no choice.... All you do is blah blah blah blah blah! :lol:

It's very good advice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcanuck

Hello all,

I've been thinking about juice for a few years now and have finally
decided to do a cycle. First off, i've been training since I was 18 (now 25)
on and off. For the last year i've been pretty steady and making decent
gains in strength and size. I'm 5'7" , 190lbs , 15-20% bodyfat, 16.5" arms,
25.5" legs, 15" calves and feel good. I'm currently doing 80lbs dumbell press
for shoulders, squatting 3 plates, deadlifting 3+10k, and incline dumbell
press 90lbs. Diet is composed of mainly 60% protein, 20% fibrous carbs, 20%
efa's.

I currently have access to some nice norma deca and can get a decent variety
of other stuff. What i'm wondering is, what to do the deca with? Now I know
it's recommended that you use test with it, but I'm really not sure if it will
give me the look I want. I'm not interested in gaining 20lbs if i'm smooth all
over and holding water. I'm seeking to add 15-20lbs of ripped with that nice
super muscular look, with the veins popping out of the delts look ;)

So would anyone recommend deca + winstrol tabs as a good first cycle.
Or what about using deca + sust250, and then using clomid+nolvadex as
well?

Any thoughts on what a decent first cycle would be, and how I could avoid
the bloated beached whale look ?

---

Avoid Winstrol... lost of people think its going to make them all buldged with muscle and cut like coverguys on muscle magazines but the reality is, most people who do this steroid, it dries all the fluids out of your joints in elbows, rotator cuff in shoulder and in knees and too many people on this end up with a painful joint injury that prevents you from working out muscles around that joint for years to come. Better off to take just testosterone, get bloated a little during the 2 months you are on it, but as soon as you quit, all the fat and bloating comes off easily without having to diet or whatever. Its all just temporary. Also 3/4 of the water bloating is not bloating of your fat, its water bloating of your muscles somewhat like creatine does so you dont look that much like a fat pig while on steroids, actually your muscles just look more fuller and bigger but just understand everything shrinks back down some when you end steroids and in the end you'll just have a 5 to 12 lbs gain - and steroid gains keep shrinking over the next 2 years until its ALL GONE although if you've done damage to liver, kidneys or heart, you get to keep these for the rest of your life. Understanding this, do you still think its worth it?

Also on the deca, test or winstrol concepts... well deca definately bloats you, winstrol is just plain risky because damage your rotator cuff and you wont have big arms anymore because cant work them out anymore. Testosterone enhances your manlyness in many ways. While bloating during cycle is a problem, if you stay on a testosterone cycle a little past 10 weeks, like plan a 14-15 week cycle, testosterone starts burning your body fat by inhibiting cortisol and about 9th thru 15th week, you actually might stay on the steroid just as strong, but you watch the scale drop pounds because your tummy fat is melting away and abs start showing up. Cortisol is primarily responsible for the tummy fat that hides your ads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ntpadude

Avoid Winstrol... lost of people think its going to make them all buldged with muscle and cut like coverguys on muscle magazines but the reality is, most people who do this steroid, it dries all the fluids out of your joints in elbows, rotator cuff in shoulder and in knees and too many people on this end up with a painful joint injury that prevents you from working out muscles around that joint for years to come. Better off to take just testosterone, get bloated a little during the 2 months you are on it, but as soon as you quit, all the fat and bloating comes off easily without having to diet or whatever. Its all just temporary. Also 3/4 of the water bloating is not bloating of your fat, its water bloating of your muscles somewhat like creatine does so you dont look that much like a fat pig while on steroids, actually your muscles just look more fuller and bigger but just understand everything shrinks back down some when you end steroids and in the end you'll just have a 5 to 12 lbs gain - and steroid gains keep shrinking over the next 2 years until its ALL GONE although if you've done damage to liver, kidneys or heart, you get to keep these for the rest of your life. Understanding this, do you still think its worth it?

---

I agree. I had to quit Winstrol 4 weeks in. It destroyed my joints. I couldn't lift for 4 months!!!! Listen to what the guys above had said. Don't just jump in if your still getting decent gains. TEST should be the base of any cycle you do. If it were me, I'd research EQ. Great vascularity and muslce hardness

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pumpseeker

I agree with Pheedno....keep lifting naturally until you hit a plateau. Why start AS now if you're already making steady gains? With that in mind, your body fat is a tad high now. Your diet sounds good...some morning cardio 3-4 times a week would help you get down to 10-12%, which would be a better time to run that cutting cycle, IMO. Test prop, winny, and eq would be my choice at that time. You won't get too bloated on these...now there are some steroids, like dbol, that will make your head look like a pumpkin but you can take anti-es like TheMudMan mentioned to combat this. I like liquidex for bloat reduction.

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I agree my bodyfat is a bit high, but keep in mind it's -30 celsius outside, I need the insulation ;) I have no problem getting down to 12% with cardio, which is actually what i'm doing at the moment.

The only reason I want to do a bit of juice is to give me a little boost, help me
get up to the 100lbs+ dumbells and feel good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BIG TEXAN

Well looky there.... you were listening to all my preaching. :D

Mudman is right.... diet and workouts need to be in check before you use AS. SOundsl ike you're on the right path... I say keep going natural and see how far it gets ya first. You've only been hitting it hard for about a year. I highly recommend hitting it steadily for about 5 years before any AS use. Find your natural potential first than add in AS... you'll be much happier with the reults if you follow our advice.

---

Don't get me wrong, when I say on and off training I mean taking a month or two off a year. When I wasn't lifting heavy I would be boxing, or doing some other physical activity. I never stopped training for more than 1-2 months.

I'll heed your advice though, thanks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ntpadude

Avoid Winstrol... lost of people think its going to make them all buldged with muscle and cut like coverguys on muscle magazines but the reality is, most people who do this steroid, it dries all the fluids out of your joints in elbows, rotator cuff in shoulder and in knees and too many people on this end up with a painful joint injury that prevents you from working out muscles around that joint for years to come. Better off to take just testosterone, get bloated a little during the 2 months you are on it, but as soon as you quit, all the fat and bloating comes off easily without having to diet or whatever. Its all just temporary. Also 3/4 of the water bloating is not bloating of your fat, its water bloating of your muscles somewhat like creatine does so you dont look that much like a fat pig while on steroids, actually your muscles just look more fuller and bigger but just understand everything shrinks back down some when you end steroids and in the end you'll just have a 5 to 12 lbs gain - and steroid gains keep shrinking over the next 2 years until its ALL GONE although if you've done damage to liver, kidneys or heart, you get to keep these for the rest of your life. Understanding this, do you still think its worth it?

Also on the deca, test or winstrol concepts... well deca definately bloats you, winstrol is just plain risky because damage your rotator cuff and you wont have big arms anymore because cant work them out anymore. Testosterone enhances your manlyness in many ways. While bloating during cycle is a problem, if you stay on a testosterone cycle a little past 10 weeks, like plan a 14-15 week cycle, testosterone starts burning your body fat by inhibiting cortisol and about 9th thru 15th week, you actually might stay on the steroid just as strong, but you watch the scale drop pounds because your tummy fat is melting away and abs start showing up. Cortisol is primarily responsible for the tummy fat that hides your ads.

---

Well I guess winstrol is not the best idea then. Would you say sustanon 250
is a good choice? And of course I do know about nolvadex and other anti-e's.

Thanks for the tips as well man.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcanuck

Well I guess winstrol is not the best idea then. Would you say sustanon 250
is a good choice? And of course I do know about nolvadex and other anti-e's.

Thanks for the tips as well man.

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Hmmm, to me, Sust might be that wise of a choice for a first cycle. Sust can be painful, and needs more injections. You have to inject it E3D. I would go with a longer acting ester like CYP or Enan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ntpadude

Testosterone enhances your manlyness in many ways. While bloating during cycle is a problem, if you stay on a testosterone cycle a little past 10 weeks, like plan a 14-15 week cycle, testosterone starts burning your body fat by inhibiting cortisol and about 9th thru 15th week, you actually might stay on the steroid just as strong, but you watch the scale drop pounds because your tummy fat is melting away and abs start showing up. Cortisol is primarily responsible for the tummy fat that hides your ads.

---

interesting stuff man....never knew that about test....
would like to know more about the whole Cortisol thing aswell....if theres a thread on it please let me know.....
and bcanuck go with Test-e for first cycle.......maby some eq...but for your first cycle test-e will be good...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shud

interesting stuff man....never knew that about test....
would like to know more about the whole Cortisol thing aswell....if theres a thread on it please let me know.....
and bcanuck go with Test-e for first cycle.......maby some eq...but for your first cycle test-e will be good...

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Well looks like some of the heavy hitters and then MudMan and BigT put there .32 in. I'd say stay natural for a while, build a solid base and then if you do a cycle do a Test En cycle for about 12 weeks at 400/500mg a week. And as far as running it with Deca, my Test Deca cycle, I noticed a loss in BF. If you run Enth or cyp use liquidex @ .50mg a day and the bloat will stay down. It wasn't that bad at all!

And PCT is extremely important! Just like Mud said!

SID

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ripsid

Well looks like some of the heavy hitters and then MudMan and BigT put there .32 in. I'd say stay natural for a while, build a solid base and then if you do a cycle do a Test En cycle for about 12 weeks at 400/500mg a week. And as far as running it with Deca, my Test Deca cycle, I noticed a loss in BF. If you run Enth or cyp use liquidex @ .50mg a day and the bloat will stay down. It wasn't that bad at all!

And PCT is extremely important! Just like Mud said!

SID

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Thanks for the advice man, but I think I have a solid base. I've trained for quite a while, and really don't see myself adding more than 5-8lbs per year. I'll check out the liquidex, not sure if I can find that. Thanks again man.