Will a high letro dose effect my gains

[mrsocks]

I'm running letro at 1.25 mg ed
its liquid letro and it's 1.25 mg a cc
Will a high dosage of letro effect my gains?

[albino-rhino]

Letro is a strong AI and will block a great deal of estrogen. This might affect your gains but many beleive it doesn't but simply holds off any water retention and other side effects.

Whats your cycle that your running? Have you encountered gyno sides and upped the dosage? I would run it at .25 or .5 to keep sides to a minimum.

PS. This information is parroted!

[Tank75]

i'm honestly not sure how letro will affect your gains. i believe that a reduction in your estrogen levels can affect your growth and development, but i'm not sure to what extent. i've read in other threads that you must make a decision whether you value the most mass possible or a leaner approach. if you're going for the most mass, keep your letro at a minimum, but if you don't want to walk around all bloated, then letro can help. i'm doing .25mg every other day of letro and it seems to do the trick. good luck.

[RA]

Letro can kill your cycle, it is that strong. Why the high dose?

[C_Bino]

I am not a big believer in low-estro really killing gains. I run letro during every cycle and never have a problem with gains. But there is no need to run a dose that high, take 1/2cc eod even. Or maybe 1/2cc ed if you want. Depends on how prone you are and if you are suffering from any gyno symptoms.

But a high dose of letro can cause problems, not in terms of gains but overall health I speak of.

[RA]

I am not a big believer in low-estro really killing gains. I run letro during every cycle and never have a problem with gains. But there is no need to run a dose that high, take 1/2cc eod even. Or maybe 1/2cc ed if you want. Depends on how prone you are and if you are suffering from any gyno symptoms.

But a high dose of letro can cause problems, not in terms of gains but overall health I speak of.

Do you agree Bino that the body needs a certain amount of estrogen for growth?

[Merc..]

Estrogen is some what anabolic so yes!!

[C_Bino]

Do you agree Bino that the body needs a certain amount of estrogen for growth?

Well yes, I mean I wouldnt want my body at 0% estrogen for extended periods of time, but like many compunds and issues involving the use of AAS I think its a kinda trial and error thing. You gotta play around with levels that personally benefit you the most. Now myself being prone to gyno may have to run a stronger AI than some people, will that person make better gains than me...possibly but you gotta do what you gotta do. I have heard the argument many times that the immune system is more vulnerable with lower estrogen levels. Now has anyone actually FELT these effects personally or is it parroted from a study? I mean I think I can speak for most bodybuilders when I say we take care of our bodies VERY VERY well in terms of necessary micro and macro nutrients in order to sustain proper immune function. I have NEVER ran into a problem in this scenario and continue to be healthy year-round (knock on wood).

Anyways, its hard for me to tell if I would have gained more running my cycles without letro, but I am very happy with where I am at and the constant gains i make, so Im willing to risk it. But definitely I agree with you 100% that there is absolutely NO REASON to run letro at a high dose when its not needed.

[ascendant]

Well yes, I mean I wouldnt want my body at 0% estrogen for extended periods of time, but like many compunds and issues involving the use of AAS I think its a kinda trial and error thing. You gotta play around with levels that personally benefit you the most. Now myself being prone to gyno may have to run a stronger AI than some people, will that person make better gains than me...possibly but you gotta do what you gotta do. I have heard the argument many times that the immune system is more vulnerable with lower estrogen levels. Now has anyone actually FELT these effects personally or is it parroted from a study? I mean I think I can speak for most bodybuilders when I say we take care of our bodies VERY VERY well in terms of necessary micro and macro nutrients in order to sustain proper immune function. I have NEVER ran into a problem in this scenario and continue to be healthy year-round (knock on wood).

Anyways, its hard for me to tell if I would have gained more running my cycles without letro, but I am very happy with where I am at and the constant gains i make, so Im willing to risk it. But definitely I agree with you 100% that there is absolutely NO REASON to run letro at a high dose when its not needed.

now this is a perfect example of how you have to see what works for yourself. i know you know your sh*t bino, but my experience is quite different in regards to anti-e's.

personally, anti-e's during my cycles can dramatically affect my gains. my first couple cycles i took, i didn't use anti-e's (mainly cause at the time, the guy giving me all the info about them never even mentioned them). my gains on those cycles were dramatic, and i'm talking in regards to lean muscle mass as i do regularly check my bf%.

on i believe my 3rd cycle, i had tried taking nolva while on it. i believe i took it at 20mg a day. i made hardly any gains from that cycle. next cycle went back to no anti-e's (until pct), and made some decent gains again.

for me personally, anti-e's during a cycle unquestionably do inhibit my gains. some people however need anti-e's during a cycle to inhibit gyno. luckily, i'm not prone to it. however, if i were going over 1g/week of test, i'd certainly be using it at that point.

not saying this is the best idea, but personally, i'd run a cycle without an anti-e (unless your test is over 1g/week and in that case use a low dose of a weaker anti-e) and see how things go. just keep the letro handy and at the first sign of any nipple soreness, puffiness, tenderness, or of course any kind of excretions, begin using letro at the dose you are now until the symptoms subside and that should solve your problem. better to find out if you're succeptible to gyno than just play it safe.

[C_Bino]

I agree completely and infact when people are starting their first cycles I always suggest not using an anti-e. Its the only way to truly find out if you need it. Hell if I didnt need it there is no way I would run it, whats the point?

Great insight ascendant.

[ascendant]

alright, now that i got my personal experience out of the way, let me get a little more technical here in regards to estrogen and it's role in our bodies, cause personally, i feel it's a very important hormone and should be reduced as minimal as possible to prevent feminization symptoms (gyno and the like).

for starters, estrogen plays a role in our libido, brain functions, protecting the heart, and strengthening the bones. this applies to both women AND men, though for some of the instances it more strongly affects women.

when using excessive amounts of anti-e's, particularly one as strong as letro, a common side effect is decreased libido. obviously this is due to the reduced estrogen levels. nuff said there.

as far as it's involvement in brain functions, it's a keystone metabolite in the brain that affects development, memory, synaptic changes, reaction times, sleep, and intellectual skills. there is even evidence that shows estrogen affects the brains reaction to injury, protecting it from over-reaction to injury (ex., swelling that would build up pressure against the skull) and causing self-damage. though not 100% conclusive, estrogen seems to show fairly conclusive evidence in playing a major role in cognitive functions as well.

if you'd like to know of all the roles estrogen plays in our bodies, simply look at what happens when women go through menopause. though i'm not sure all of the symptoms of menopause are contributed to by the depletion of estrogen, most of them are.

again, though many of the affects of estrogen are more noticeable in women, they do play many of the same roles (to a lesser extent) in males as well. though too high of estrogen levels can cause a problem, bringing them too low can certainly cause problems as well.

though our body does have many chemicals to help compensate during times of depleted estrogen, i'd rather not do something to my body that with all things considered, needs to be carefully considered and could potentially cause numerous health issues.

[ascendant]

I agree completely and infact when people are starting their first cycles I always suggest not using an anti-e. Its the only way to truly find out if you need it. Hell if I didnt need it there is no way I would run it, whats the point?

Great insight ascendant.

thanks bro. added a little more info here in regards to estrogen as well. needed to double check some of my old notes (have a nice hefty folder of print-outs and clip-outs from mags n stuff) to make sure the info was correct.

pretty interesting. been so long since i read much of the stuff that i forgot some of it myself. enjoy.

i'm sure in your instance, excessively low estrogen shouldn't be a concern. considering you're succeptible to gyno, the anti-e's should simply bring your estrogen to a more reasonable level. however, the info in my post above does show that if not necessary, anti-e's should definitely be avoided.

[Stumbo]

Do you guys feel that Proviron follows these rules as well?