correct doses for a non muscle head-body buff looking to look good.

**jmiro** · 01-15-2002, 01:01 PM

My friend and I were having a debate on what doses to take winny, eq and deca at. I dont even want to take Deca at all. EQ and Winny for me. It will be my first cycle. SHould I go with 300,400 or 600 mg/ week for 8 or 10 weeks. The winny with either go 50 every day or every other day. for 6 or eight weeks. PLease give us some, knowledge. We just want to lose about 10-15 lbs of fat and gain the same amount of muscle.

**bufchic** · 01-15-2002, 10:06 PM

Who you callen muscle head???

For what you want, 200-300.
50 eod on the winstrol . Your genetics really determine your doses. Theres people that can do 600mg/week and dont even look like it. And theres others that do 200 and look bad ass. Thats why I think everyone should start small and see what your body does.
With both of these though.. if your diet isnt super clean and your not doing some cardio you wont achieve what your looking for.

**georgie24** · 01-15-2002, 10:36 PM

eat clean train hard repost in 3 months

**jmiro** · 01-16-2002, 01:12 AM

beleive me that I have done my research. I have logged on about 100 hrs on this board on the last month alone. The reason we are asking these questions is that we receive so many opinions from everybody we just dont know what to do with it. some people say 300 some say 600 of EQ. Sh!t I dont know. I guess Il;l front load at 600 and decrease to 400. The Deca probably not because it is very similar to EQ. well thanks for your help anyways. We're new but not stupid, just need more guidance. :-)

**bufchic** · 01-16-2002, 01:23 AM

Did you just totally disregard my post or what? I gave you a perfectly reasonable answer. You do not need 600 or even 400!!!

**jmiro** · 01-16-2002, 02:47 AM

sorry I just have very bad genetics. tendency to be chubby.

**Pete235** · 01-16-2002, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by jmiro
sorry I just have very bad genetics. tendency to be chubby.

I don't understand what that has to do with the recommendations BC gave you. I was already fairly big and strong when I did my first cycle (5'10" and 221lbs) and I ran deca @ 400mg/week x 10 weeks and winstrol @ 50mg/EOD x 6 weeks. I gained 22lbs of muscle...no water, no fat. Start at the minimum, you will be surprised at the results.

Of course G1 is corect as well...if diet and training aren't spot on you may as well be pissing in the Atlantic ocean hoping to raise it 2 feet. I have to assume that you have determined that you are ready and that your training and diet have been on line for a while.

**little-man-zane** · 01-16-2002, 01:29 PM

do some reading bro... some great threads before that will answer your question if you want an answer....

**jmiro** · 01-16-2002, 03:02 PM

Yes my diet and cardio are spot on. I eat about 2500 calories a day 300 grams of protein minimum. Train each muscle hard once a week and do cardio on my off days. I guess I'll lower my EQ dose to 300mg.

**Terinox** · 01-16-2002, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Pete235

Of course G1 is corect as well...if diet and training aren't spot on you may as well be pissing in the Atlantic ocean hoping to raise it 2 feet. I have to assume that you have determined that you are ready and that your training and diet have been on line for a while.

ROFL !!!

I've never heard that one before, that's funny!!!

But it's soo true, from what everyone keeps telling me too, DIET DIET AND DIET has to be DAMN GOOD!

**bufchic** · 01-16-2002, 03:59 PM

I don't understand what that has to do with the recommendations BC gave you.

I was wondering myself.
Why dont you start with 2cc/3 days??? See what happens. It really is a good dose. Run it for 10 weeks and on the 8th week start the winstrol for 6. What in the world do you need 300g + of protein for??? Especially since you arent even using yet.
BTW eq makes you starving ass hungry. Be prepared.

**gettinthere** · 01-16-2002, 06:44 PM

about that protein intake...I have always ate like a horse and not gained a pound...not junk food...just everything. I'm weeks away from my first cycle and i've started to eat 5 meals a day instead of the 3 i normally ate. i have heard recommendations that you should consume your weight X 2 in grams of protein. I eat meat with most of my meals, but i dont think i'll be hitting 400 grams a day like this. I read a protein booster's label and it said like 25 or something like that...that aint shit! should i be downing raw eggs or what? bufchic? littleman? pete? someone?

THANKS AS ALWAYS

**RUSSIANBEAR** · 01-16-2002, 11:32 PM

Check this out bro.

Clen 2 weeeks on two weeks off for two months. In the off week xenadrine or ripped fuel or ECA. Watch your diet and cardio every day. Do an eight week cycle. If you tend to have high bodyfat loose it first then start AS.
EQ and winny is a really good stack but if you have high bodyfat it aint going to shred it for you.

Loose the fat and then add the muscle.

**bufchic** · 01-17-2002, 12:17 AM

About the protein.... only a 250lb pro needs 300+ a day. Too much protein is damaging to your body. Absolutely eat 5+ meals a day. You should be eating protein everytime you eat. But lets say you are eating those 5 meals a day. To hit 300 you would have to eat 60g each time. More than likely, especially if you are not using any AS, your body will discard much of that.
It IS true.... its hard on your kidneys. If you are putting any drugs, OTC or illegal in your body, dont you think your organs are already getting a work over.
Do you really think everything those magazines print is factual?Cause a ton of it isnt. The bb world has been programmed by bb magazines! That IS where we get a lot of our information. M&F (which I grew up reading) has left out the whole story in MANY of their articles. They are not medical journals.

Loose the fat and then add the muscle.

Sorry RB I disagree. I think thats a huge misconception.

**gettinthere** · 01-17-2002, 01:32 AM

I believe I had read that whole protein thing on some post here...Anyways, it sounded like a hell of a lot to me so I wanted to ask! If I weigh 200ish, 6'5", first cycle coming up, mostly test and eq, what protein intake should I shoot for??
Also, is there a good online place to find "bodybuilding recipes"? I can't cook for crap but I'm willing to try!

Thanks girl...

**block** · 01-17-2002, 02:42 AM

I am i the middle of my test cycle and I only eat 250 to 300 grams a day and I weigh 250 but only 200 or so of it is lean mass 18 bf or so and I am getting good gains I also only try to gett my protien from food I do a shak at night.

**bufchic** · 01-17-2002, 02:56 AM

IMO..on AS, around 200g. When you are using, your body will utilize more protein and need a little extra. Plus the more lean body mass you have the more protein you need to maintain. Surprisingly, it doesnt take that much extra to maintain.
The protein is the easy part. Meat, eggs, nuts, milk. Although it helps to know your complete and incomplete.. blah, blah, blah. This sucks though, 4-6 oz of beef is plenty. Doesnt seem like much (I like to eat a lot). Better have a monster yam and monster serving of veggies... ok garlic mashed potatoes with extra butter...he he

Carbs are just as important and a little more tricky. Carbs are going give your body a hand in processing that protein and using it efficently. Most of your calories should actually be carbs. Try to eat balance meals of protein carbs and fat in each sitting, they all work together. If you know which ones to eat and when, they can make you hard and full. NOT fat! Big difference. Shit makes you fat.
I really dont know for on line recipes. The board has some good ones. Ive just learn to through my own stuff together. You really dont even need to know how to cook, other than, how to boil eggs, pasta, scramble eggs, microwave yams, chicken, oatmeal, broil steak, open cans, etc. Basic home ec 101.
Happy to help.

**bufchic** · 01-17-2002, 02:59 AM

I totally agree with the food thing Block. Powders are way over rated. Food is where its at.

**Venice** · 01-17-2002, 11:50 AM

I've always read that you should shoot for 1g of protein for each pound of bodyweight. So for me...a few stone under 200 lbs...that'd be only about 35g of protein for each of 5 meals.

Now, here's a couple things I'm curious about. Peanut butter. One of my favorite "junk foods" in the whole world, but bodybuilders swear by it off-season--the non-sugar kind, I assume. I'm guessing this is because it's considered a good source of quality fat. Anyone have any knowledge?

Also, my experience with non-AS dieting is--in order to stay relatively lean--it's good to cut all calories 3-4 hours before you go to sleep. I've read there's a higher likelyhood of those extra cals being stored as fat during your 8-9 hours of sleeping.

My question is: Do the rules change when on AS? I'm guessing yes since you're altering your body chemistry, but what do you all think?

**bufchic** · 01-17-2002, 01:20 PM

Venice you know Ill open my big mouth. I eat PB cause I love it, period. Other reasons? Its poly and monounsaturated fats are a little bonus. Great way to add extra calories since it is high in calories(calories put on mass!

) Oh yeah.... yummy. All natural is the way to go. Otherwise your getting hydrogenated shit and added sugar.

Also, my experience with non-AS dieting is--in order to stay relatively lean--it's good to cut all calories 3-4 hours before you go to sleep. I've read there's a higher likelyhood of those extra cals being stored as fat during your 8-9 hours of sleeping.

Hmmmm. I took a course a year ago that insisted if you have not eaten as many calories as you have burned for the day, it doesnt matter if you eat right before bed. Makes sense. These are reputable people to. I think as long as you arent eating cheeseburgers and pizza before bed your better off eating a little... at least an hour before. If youre awake you are burning about twice as many calories as when sleeping, you dont want to deprive your body of food longer than you have to. 3 hours is too long if you are not sleeping. With AS everyone is different. If I eat anything other than a small amount of meat and veggies before I sleep I will wake up 3lb heavier. Which if bb is the goal thats a good thing. In my case I get sick of gaining weight.
Your body chemistery is changing, so the weight is coming on dispersed differently and denser. You are going to be thicker not necessarily fatter. IMO in the first year or 2, you shouldnt even attempt to stay lean and get big at the same time. Certain drugs can help keep you a little leaner along with a relatively clean diet. Bottom line ....worry about putting that quality mass on and that is going to mean not letting your body starve for 3-4 hours before bed.

**bufchic** · 01-17-2002, 01:21 PM

OMG we are sooo off subject.

**RUSSIANBEAR** · 01-17-2002, 03:47 PM

Bufchic you may disagree but that worked for me in the past. I used to be around 245lbs 18-19% bodyfat awhen i graduated high school. I cut alot of bodyfat and then started my first cycle. I would never reccomend an overweight person to use AS. Sorry but thats just my opinion.

**bufchic** · 01-17-2002, 04:36 PM

Ok Ill clairify, sorry, not to use AS but to start putting on muscle. I hear a lot of people say well I dont what to start lifting weights till I lose another 20lb. That is silly. Yeah, no overweight, just fat person should be using. Bigger health risk. They should give themselves at least year of hard training and good diet. I wasnt gettin the impression that this person was actually fat though. I call myself chubby and Im around 12%.

**Venice** · 01-17-2002, 07:27 PM

BC, when you open your big mouth, I learn something new everytime, so don't even think about closing it.

I guess it depends on how you have your meals set up. If you haven't consumed enough cals in the day, then yes, you should definitely get in that last meal before bed. However, if you've got yourself on an 8-11-1-4-7 eating schedule, then you've taken in 5 meals a good 3 hours before most people hit the hay.

So at that point, I guess you have a choice. Do you want to put in a 6th meal at 9 or 10 o'clock? Or do you want your body to start metabolizing off anything extra? In my experience (without AS) I find the second works well, but AS makes it a whole new ballgame. I guess you just have to listen to your body and feed it to get it how you want it.

(Yes, I guess this has gone off-topic. Sorry)

**bufchic** · 01-17-2002, 10:10 PM

Venice, if that is whats working for you now and you are happy with how you look and feel, then go with it. Otherwise give that last meal a shot. It doesnt even have to be a "meal". I dont call a salad with egg whites or tuna and broccoli a meal. Get it?
If or when you decide to use, I would not go that long without something. Plus, you will be a WHOLE lot hungrier.