01-24-2004, 11:00 PM #1
1st cycle - would like some advice
Ok, so I have been eating well and working out for a few years, but am still relatively thin. I want to take it to the next level and beign my first cycle in the next few months. Here are my stats:
----Weight: 195 lbs
----Height: 6' 2"
I've been researching like crazy, and everytime I think I have things figured out I read something else that contradicts everything I've learned thus far. It's very confusing (as I'm sure you all know). I've got several questions I'd like some help with. Because of all the contradicting answers I've been getting, I'm having trouble determining what a good starter cycle would be. I want as much gains as possible while still being able to maintain the gains after the cycle is over - I am not so much worried about cutting at this point...just building mass that I can retain post-cycle.
Is a testosterone -only cycle best for this, or should I stack testosterone with deca ? (or just deca alone?)
3 Possible Cycles:
----Weeks 1-3: 250mg sustanon
----Weeks 4-7: 500mg sustanon
----Weeks 8-10: 250mg sustanon
**Testosterone and deca
----Weeks 1-8: 400mg deca-durabolin
----Weeks 1-8: 500mg sustanon
----Week 1: 200mg deca
----Week 2: 250mg deca
----Week 3: 300mg deca
----Week 4: 350mg deca
----Week 5-6: 400mg deca
----Week 7: 350mg deca
----Week 8: 300mg deca
----Week 9: 250mg deca
----Week 10: 200mg deca
Which one seems best for optimum gain while still being able to retain the gains post-cycle?
Is the tapering on/off necessary, or should I just maintain the same dosages throughout the cycle?
For PCT starting 2 weeks after last injection:
----Day 1 300mg Clomid
----Day 2-11 100mg Clomid
----Day 12-21 50mg Clomid
Should I also take hCG before clomid?...and if so, precisely what what week and in what dosages?
In addition to clomid (and poissiby hCG), should I take something (like clenbuterol or cytadren ) to lower cortisone levels and prevent post-cycle crashing? or is that only needed for harder AS cycles like anadrol or dianabol ?
Finally, should I also use nolvadex (and/or proviron ) while on the AS cycle? or is clomid sufficient in preventing etrogen-related symptoms?
Guys...I know this is a lot of questions. But I swear I've done all the research and have pages of notes. I'm just still confused as to how to put it all together in a good cycle (including PCT). I appreciate any and all the advice you guys can offer.
01-24-2004, 11:06 PM #2Junior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
- New York
1st choice looks the best but keep the doses at the same level no need for taperin and hcg shouldnt be needed, is sus the only test u can get cause enth or cyp would be a better choice due to less injections, best of luck bro
01-24-2004, 11:24 PM #3
For optimal bulking results i would go with deca /test.. Granted you have a high calorie diet, and you are dedicated with your training.. As far as HCG you will get mixed opinions from other board members, i feel you can go without it, spend the money on Novaldex/Armidex to avoid gyno.. Your natural test production is reversable, it will restart during PCT, however gyno is not.. Running Clen is also a wise decision at the end of your cycle.. Have Novaldex on hand in case you see signs of gyno.. Run the novaldex at 10mgs daily through out your cycle.. As far as keeping your gains, with correct PCT, DIET (i can't stress diet enough), you should keep the majority of what you gained, really the only weight you will lose will be water..
Looks good, excellent job on the research.. I'm sure alot of bros will add to this..
Good luck bro
01-24-2004, 11:33 PM #4VET Retired
- Join Date
- Dec 2001
i may draw fire for this one but i think u should do fina+test your first cycle i was 195 12-13% bodyfat 1 year ago i did fina at 75mg ed test 500mg wk 6wks.( my first cycle) 195 to 230 6 weeks bf droped also, hard to belive but true. when i posted my results most bros were like "yeah right"but i'm tellin u if done properly this cycle will change your life. bros say save the fina for later but why? u plannin to run 10-15 cycles? with the results i got from my first cycle i doubt ill need 3. i cant tell u how well it will work but i really belive if u diet right train hard u can gain 15 lbs in a very short timeframe. good luck
ps kept all my gains except 5-8 lbs of bloat
01-24-2004, 11:41 PM #5Associate Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2003
- Buffalo, NY area
01-24-2004, 11:48 PM #6
How about a simple Testosterone Enanthate Cycle...
500mg Test Enanthate A week (split into 2 shots)
10mg of Nolvadex a day (for anti-e)
Clomid Post Cycle Therapy 100/100/50
With this, you can optionally throw in the deca at 400mg a week...that's up to you. If you choose to, take it split into 2 shots in the same shot that holds the enanthate. IE Monday 250mg Testosterone Enanthate and 200mg Deca combined in 1 syringe. Then on Thursday you would do the same. However, you will want to stop the deca at week 11 because it's a slightly longer ester which means it will take longer to exist your system. So in order for your Post Cycle therapy to be ideal, you can stop the deca 1 or 2 weeks before the test so that when you have your last test injections they clear your system at the same time. IE Test weeks 1-12 and Deca weeks 1-11.
Good luck and be safe!
Last edited by Ambulance; 01-24-2004 at 11:50 PM.
01-25-2004, 04:29 PM #7
Great input so far guys. Why do you think Testosterone Enanthate would be better than Sustanon ? Also, are you guys saying that deca isn't as necessary for a beginner to get good, keepable gains? I'm leaning toward just doing an 8-10 week cycle of 500 mg each week...either test enanthate or sustanon. For PCT, are you guys sure that clomid will be sufficient without hCG ? And I'm still unsure about taking clenbuterol to keep my cortisone levels down. Is the consensus that hCG and clen are not needed for such a light, first-time cycle? Also, I'll probably just take nolvadex throughout to be on the safe side, but when should I stop taking it? should I stop the nolvadex at the same time I stop injections, or keep taking it all the way through the clomid PCT?
Thanks again guys...you're really helping a lot
01-25-2004, 04:43 PM #8
because Sust requires injections every 2-3 days becuase of the short acting esters. Well you can use the clen post cycle to give you some energy and keep training hard. It will also help you drop a couple lbs. Take nolva at 10 mg/ED thru cycle then when PCT comes around take it at 20mg/ED with clomid
01-25-2004, 09:04 PM #9
I agree with Moush
01-25-2004, 10:57 PM #10
with the sust your going less water retention what ever you decide keep up some good cardio and u wont experiance that dramatic water weight loss beginners are alot of times impressed with gaining 25-30lbs that wont mean **** to you if you loose 15 of all water alot of the times that will just leave you hanging ands wanting more and more and most people dont need that
sus/deca good stack 10-15lbs of keepable gains if done right
"diet,gym,diet,diet,gym if you do decide to juice slow and steady wins the race good source easy to find bad source easier to find
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