02-07-2004, 09:31 PM #1
Proprionate and water rentention question
Ok, I think we all can agree that most of us on this board believe that Test Propionate will give you a distinctly less amount of excess water while on a cycle compared to Test Enanthate or Cypionate right? However, this is exerpt taken out of the drug profiles on steroidolgy.com:
Active Life: 2-3 days
Drug Class: Anabolic /Androgenic Steroid (for injection)
Average Dose: Men 50-200 mg/day
Water Retention: Yes, high
High Blood Pressure: Yes
Liver Toxic: Low
DHT Conversion: Yes, high
Decrease HPTA function: Yes, severe
Testosterone propionate is a commonly manufactured, oil-based injectable testosterone compound. The propionate ester will slow the rate in which the steroid is released from the injection site, but only for a few days. Testosterone propionate is therefore much faster acting than other testosterone esters such as cypionate or enanthate, and requires a much more frequent dosing schedule, in order to maintain stable blood levels. While cypionate and enanthate are injected on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, propionate is usually injected every second. The propionate ester can be very irritating to the site of injection. In fact, many sensitive individuals choose to stay away from this steroid completely, their body reacting with a pronounced soreness and low-grade fever that may last for a few days.
Those who do not mind frequent injections will find propionate to be quite an effective steroid. As with all testosterones, it is a powerful mass drug, capable of producing rapid gains in size and strength. At the same time the buildup of estrogen and DHT (dihydrotestosterone) will be pronounced, so typical testosterone side effects are to be expected. Many consider propionate to be the mildest testosterone ester, and the preferred form for the dieting/cutting phases of training. Some will go so far as to say that propionate will harden the physique, while giving the user less water and fat retention than one typically expects to see with a testosterone. Realistically however, this is nonsense. The ester is removed before testosterone is active in the body, and likewise the ester cannot alter the activity of the parent steroid in any way, only slow its release.
This contradicts what ALMOST everybody on here says about how prop should be used in cutting cycles because you generally have a lot less water retention while on prop compared to enanthate. I am just curious about this because my first cycle, which was a bulking cycle, consisted of test enanthate along with deca and I kept a noticable amount of water (mostly in my cheek area and face) and I did not have that hard look more smoothness. Now I want to run test propionate with my summer sutting cycle because EVERY person says you won't retain much water, if any, while using prop, but this aboved exerpt contradicts what everybody is saying. Any of you guys have an explanation on this?
02-07-2004, 11:39 PM #2
I don't know who wrote that but whoever did is wrong about prop making u maintain water....
02-07-2004, 11:56 PM #3Originally Posted by MBaraso
02-08-2004, 02:34 AM #4
Based on my own experiences I say: they are terribly wrong! I have a tendency to draw water when I'm using test cyp, en or sustanon , but while juicing prop I haven't got a thing to worry about. BTW: you can check all the other roids sites and they will all tell you exactly the opposite of what's on steroidology...
02-08-2004, 02:40 AM #5
I think that is a direct exerpt from Author L Reas Chemical Muscle Enhancement.
02-08-2004, 02:54 AM #6Originally Posted by GetPumped
02-08-2004, 03:27 AM #7
The main difference between propionate , cypionate , and enanthate is the respective duration of effect. In contrast to the long-acting enanthate and cypionate depot steroids , propionate has a distinctly lower duration of effect. The reader learns how long this time is from the package insert of the German Jenapharm GmbH for their compound "Testosteron Jenapharm" (see list with trade 'names): "Testosterone proprionate has a duration of effect of I to 2 days." An eye-catching difference, however, is that the athlete "draws" distinctly less water with propionate and visibly lower water retention occurs. Since propionate is quickly effective, often after only one or two days, the athlete experiences an increase of his training energy, a better pump, an increased appe-tite, and a slight strength gain. As an initial dose most athletes pre-fer a 50-100 mg injection. This offers two options: First, because of the rapid initial effect of the propionate-ester one can initiate a sev-eral-week-long steroid treatment with Testosterone enanthate . Those who cannot wait until the depot steroids become effective inject 250 mg of Testosterone enanthate and 50 mg of Testosterone propionate at the beginning of the treatment. After two days, when the effect of the propionates decreases, another 50 mg ampule is injected. Two days after that, the elevated testosterone level caused by the propi-onate begins to decrease. By that time, the effect of the enanthates in the body would be present; no further propionate injections would be necessary. Thus the athlete rapidly reaches and maintains a high testosterone level for a long time due to the depot testo. This, for example, is important for athletes who with Anadrol 50 over the six-week treatment have gained several pounds and would now like to switch to testosterone. Since Anadrol 50 begins its "breakdown" shortly after use of the compound is discontinued, a fast and el-evated testosterone level is desirable.
The second option is to take propionate during the entire period of intake. This, however, requires a periodic injection every second day. Best results can be obtained with 50-100 mg per day or every sec-ond day. The athlete, as already mentioned, will experience visibly lower water retention than with the depot testosterones so that propionate is well-liked by bodybuilders who easily draw water with enanthate. A good stack for gaining muscle mass would be, for example, 100 mg Testosterone propionate every 2 days, 5p mg Winstrol Depot every 2 days, and 30 mg Dianabol /day. Propionate is mainly used in the preparation for a competition and used by female athletes. And in this phase, dieting is often combined with, testosterone to maintain muscle mass and muscle density at their maximum. Propionate has always proven effective in this regard since it fulfills these requirements while lowering possible water re-tention. This water retention can be tempered by using Nolvadex and Proviron . A combination of 100 mg Testosterone propionate every 2 days, either 50 mg Winstrol Depot/day or 76 mg Parabolan every 2 days, and 25 mg Oxandrolone/day help achieve this goal and are suitable for building up "quality muscles."
Women especially like propionate since, when applied properly, an-drogenic-caused side effects can be avoided more easily The trick is to increase the time intervals between the various injections so that the testosterone level can fall again and so there is an accumulation of androgens in the female organism. Women therefore take propi-onate only every 5-7 days and obtain remarkable results with it. The, androgenic effect included in the propionate allows better re-generation without virilization symptoms for hard-training women. The dosage is usually 25-50 mg/injection. Higher dosages and more frequent intervals of intake would certainly show even better re-sults but are not recommended for women. The duration of intake should not exceed 8-10 weeks and can be supplemented by taking mild and mostly anabolic steroids such as, for example, Primobolan , Durabolin , and Anadur in order to promote the synthesis of pro-tein. Men who do not fear the intake of testosterone or the possible side effects should go ahead and give propionate a try. The side ef-fects of propionate are usually less frequent and are less pronounced. The reason is that the weekly dose of propionate is usually much lower than with depot testosterones. A daily injection of 50 mg amounts to a weekly dose of 350 mg while several depot injections easily launch the milligram content of testosterone into the four-figure range. When compared with enanthate and cypionate, pro-pionate is also a "milder" substance and thus better tolerated in the body. Those who are convinced that they need daily testosterone injections should consider taking propionate. The key to suc-cess with propionate lies in the regular intake of relatively small quantities (50-100 mg every 1-2 days.)
Although the side effects of propionate are similar to the ones of enanthate and cypionate these, as already mentioned, occur less fre-quently. However, if there is a predisposition and very high dosages are taken, the known androgenic-linked side effects such as acne vulgaris, accelerated hair loss, and increased growth of body hair and deep voice can occur. An increased libido is common both in men and women with the use of propionate. Despite the high conversion rate of propionate into estrogen gynecomastia is less common than with other testosterones. The same is true for possible water reten-tion since the retention of electrolytes and water is less pronounced. The administration of testosterone-stimulating compounds such as HCG and Clomid can, however, also be advised with propionate use since it has a strong influence on the hypothalamohypophysial tes-ticular axis, suppressing the endogenous hormone production. The toxic influence on the liver is minimal so that a liver damage is unlikely (see also Testosterone enanthate). What athletes dislike most about propionate are the frequent injections that are necessary.
02-08-2004, 03:35 AM #8
Nice post bro
02-08-2004, 02:15 PM #9
Just finished a cycle of sus. The last two week I went with prop@100mg eod and lost all the water I gained with the sus.
03-15-2004, 08:40 AM #10New Member
- Join Date
- Sep 2003
prop does the trick
i just started my 2nd cycle, my first being only test enanthate and this one being prop for 12 wks, i am about a week in and am already noticing a hardening effect.
03-15-2004, 08:48 AM #11
Test that isn't used will be converted to estrogen........ too much estrogen in men will cause sides........ edema is one side and that's what makes men bloat or retain water.
So I can see where some guys that run prop will see water retention........ Running L-dex and Nolva will keep down the bloat by helping with the conversion of test into estrogen.
03-15-2004, 09:06 AM #12Originally Posted by TheMudMan
If it truly is a better ester for cutting, that would lead me to believe that aromitization is less. Less estrogen=less water retention.
Can anyone weigh in on their expieriences with water retention on susp?
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