Words from a medical professional on AAS

**hammerhead** · 10-13-2002, 03:46 PM

It is sad to have people making statements of medical fact and backing them up with medical credentials that cannot be verified.

I have spoken extensively with a medical professional (thorasic surgeon) about the usage of AAS. He has used them in the past. He is experienced as both a user and as a doctor treating those who suffer from the ill effects (mostly arteriosclerosis, left ventricular hypertrophy and cardiomyopathy). He no longer uses AAS. I asked him why. He said "Now that I know what it really does to your body and now that i've seen what can happen to people - i'll pass."

This man has excellent genetics and looks pretty good without them. Also consider he's a surgeon. I doubt his endeavor in life is to become ripped. It's been a long time since he had a hard time getting laid.

I do firmly believe that if you take AAS in large quantities for a long time you will definitely develop varying degrees of health problems. Being aware of this and having just last week been told what I just quoted above by a surgeon I still chose to use AAS. Why?

The first element in play here is my burning desire to succeed - to achieve that which I do not perceive I can achieve without AAS. I'm willing to take the chance that I just may get a little side-effects from the juice in order to get the gains I crave.

The second element in play here is that I wouldn't take AAS if I knew for a fact I would develop a life-threatening heart condition or something equally serious. Who would? Rather we, as perfectionists, chose to focus on the upside rather than the potential ill effects. It's our nature. Alot of it is just plain old human nature.

The third element in play here is the addictive nature of AAS. I myself have found that I am becoming more and more willing to take the chances of getting ill-effects from juice the more I take them. Am I becoming progressively immune to the side-effects and increasingly addicted to the positive effects? Common sense would say yes. Is this a problem? It could become one. It may not. Who knows? But it is possible that I may one day find myself ignoring side-effects of AAS and continuing to use simply because of the addictive nature of the substances. Will I push it too far?

The fourth element is that there is a sad lack of true information on the effects of AAS. It is rather uncommon for someone like myself to get the quality of information i'm getting right now from medical professionals around me (several live in my neighborhood). Most people are not making truly informed decisions about thier use of AAS. (This board is a step in the right direction)

My position is that if you overdo anything in life you can suffer ill consequences. Just because someone may drink a fifth of liquor every night for 20 years and end up with cirrhosis and homeless (or dead) doesn't mean everyone who drinks a few beers here and there will end up that way. Of course everyone has the potential to become an alcoholic. Most drinkers will not. I conclude that just because some people who may (or may not) overdo it on steroids end up with health problems doesn't mean everyone who takes steroids will too. We also don't know to what extent those people would have developed those same medical conditions without AAS. Genetics or some other factors may have been in play.

The final element is that regardless of how much i justify in my own mind my personal usage of AAS i've still not found a medical professional that takes them nor have I found one that even off-the-record will condone my usage. That makes you stop and think doesn't it ???

**Rickson** · 10-13-2002, 08:35 PM

Well personally I think cardiovascular disease is the biggest risk of AAS. As a thorasic surgeon I can see how he has been turned off to the notion. I am not getting on a soap box here since I choose to continue using AAS. I just feel that we spend so much time on the liver, kidneys, gyno, and baldness (all important) that we ignore the one that is most dangerous.

**Tank21** · 10-13-2002, 09:38 PM

Nice post Hammerhead. Rickson, i do agree that most of the research that i have found on the ill effects of aas is on the subect of your heart and its health, particularly high blood pressure, its effects and arteriosclerosis. I agree that alot of attention isnt paid to this part when most our discussing side effects. I dont know about you guys but i rather have bitch tits then have a triple by-pass. But hey, play the game as smart as you can.

**thegame01** · 10-13-2002, 11:00 PM

good post man .One question how quick would one know on a cycle if it doesn't react right >would it be early on or latter .Or anytime for that matter?? Genearally speaking

GZ

***the original jason*** · 10-14-2002, 02:56 AM

5 weeks into every long cycle i do, i get bad palpitations, sick of it now, im gonna try some short cycles with short esters only. I dont get high blood pressure at all it seems so i dont know what causes it, I cant seem to find anyone who knows anything about it, I just know then when I stop juicing it goes away

peace

**DevilDog** · 10-14-2002, 07:10 AM

Originally posted by The Original Jason
5 weeks into every long cycle i do, i get bad palpitations, sick of it now, im gonna try some short cycles with short esters only. I dont get high blood pressure at all it seems so i dont know what causes it, I cant seem to find anyone who knows anything about it, I just know then when I stop juicing it goes away

peace

Me too bro, it got pretty bad the first weeks of my first cycle when i was doing 45mg/ed of dbol . After the dbol, things got better.

**rangerdudeleads** · 10-14-2002, 07:32 AM

good post bro , what you are saying is a large quantity of almost anything will be risks to bad consequences but small quantity of the same in this case gear will be ok...is that what you are saying???? I agree .. the heart aint nothing to play with.

**hammerhead** · 10-14-2002, 09:22 AM

I don't think it's safe to say that small quantities of gear will be okay in any general sense. I mean to say that it's going to vary greatly from person to person. Consider your age, your general health, your genetics, your lifestyle ect... Short-term you're looking at acne, balding, enlarged prostate, high blood pressure, reduced liver and kidney function. None of these are usually serious if it's limited to a short cycle folowed by plenty of time off before the next cycle. Long-term damage to the heart and endocrine system is the serious stuff that i'm worried about.

The biggest mistakes BBs make with AAS is they (1) take too much or stay on too long and that shuts down the endocrine system too much. It never comes back. You can end up with Addison's Disease or at a minimum you'll be on Hormone Replacement Therapy for life. (2) you don't give yourself adequate time off between cycles to fully recover before starting the next cycle. Again this affects the endocrine system and will also compound the short-term affects on the kidneys, liver and prostate.

I was also a victim of another illusion: that sticking to the mild stuff is not so bad for you. Wrong. Primo, Deca and Eq for example shut down your HPTA completely. Make no mistake about it. The only thing that makes the safe stuff "safer" is the slower or no conversion to other stuff like DHT (or DHB). It may be even more damaging long-term since we have a tendency to take more and stay on longer with the "mild stuff".

The safest way to do juice is to stick to short cycles and give your body more than enough time between cycles to recover. This becomes more true the older you get. Bumps of HCG throughout the cycle (especially on heavy cycles) are critically important. This information is right here on AR. It's nothing new. I'm just restating it again as a reminder to myself and veryone else who tends who forget like I do.

Jason - juice affects the adrenal glands - the levels of glucocorticoids become screwed up. It's not just the Hypothalomo-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA) that gets screwed up but also the hypothalomo-pituitary-adrenal axis (HPA) and the levels of adrenocorticotropin - the most important result being altered levels of cortisol. Unfortunately your blood pressure, heart function, immune system and insulin levels are often affected. The effects on each individual from high or low levels of cortisol is unpredictable. It could explain your palpitations. Cardiac arrhythmias are not uncommon when the body is under stress. I get them too bro! They themselves are not dangerous - it's ony when they are a symptom of heart disease that they are of concern - and the concern is the heart disease itself - not the arrhythmias. Occasional atrial fibrilations / flutters are not at all uncommon. But - the only safe move is to have your heart checked out when you're off-cycle and make sure you're not developing anything serious!

**big N** · 10-14-2002, 09:31 AM

you right when the cardiovascular disease is overlooked ,is there supplements that help during the cycle ?i know cardio helps but anything else?

**McBain** · 10-14-2002, 10:35 AM

Good post. I've worried about my heart as well. Seems like that is overlooked a lot and while you can test cholesterol and blood pressure this doesn't really cover all your bases. Is there any test that might be reasonable to check for this sort of thing (CV disease) or any preventative measures that might be a good idea? I've never really seen this issued addressed in terms of preventative measures, others than just eating cleanly, plenty of fiber, etc.

**Havvoc** · 10-14-2002, 01:01 PM

you guys are all awesome on this site!! all the research and time and effort that goes into your posts are greatly appreciated!!!!!

**powerlifter** · 02-14-2004, 02:19 PM

Hypertension is the biggest danger to the AS user ( liver problems notwithstanding )- needs to be carefully watched. The liver problems don't kill in a short while high blood pressure can - safety first Bros

**sin** · 02-14-2004, 02:28 PM

hypertension while on is the reason ive started running all the time. running releases enzymes that protect the heart, and it lowers body fat.

**johnsomebody** · 02-15-2004, 12:09 AM

I'd like to say now that this thread has been revived I really agree that heart disease is way underrated as a potential problem with AS use. Going for months with virtually non existant HDL, very high LDL and high cholesterol, as I've seen happen on cycles just from the posts made by people experiencing it, has got to be extremely unhealthy for your CV system. We're talking plaque deposits here, aren't we? And they don't just happen to your heart, it's my understanding that it can happen anywhere in your body, including everyone's favorite body part, decreasing circulation and viability.

Anybody using gear should monitor theircholesterol levels and act to lower cholesterol/saturated fats in your diet if your levels are high. It could really make a diff.

That's my .02.

**curiousdude** · 02-15-2004, 04:08 AM

the recent advents in 'heart scan' technology. price? availbility?

**Gear** · 02-15-2004, 06:47 AM

Deepdown, for the ones that do use AAS, I think we can all admit to ourselves that what we are doing is not good at all. There is too much bull**** like "ohh dont worry it will go away" or "the pain is there for few weeks only" going around. And quotes like that is what makes us feel better, and makes us continue to do AAS. But at the end of the day all we are doing is slowly making our system go from healthy to unhealthy. I mean, on the health side of things, what good does AAS do for us? Not much, does it? Even when I was getting pains here and there when I did my cycle, I was like "ahh, its normal, it will go away soon". And even though the pains did go away, I thought to myself the pains are not meant to be there in the 1st place, so therefore, to me, that should be a good enough reason to start worrying, coz the last thing you want is health problems. But we dont worry coz we think that pain goes away for good. And it may go away for good, but like I said, we are still making our bodies go from healthy to a little unhealthier, and this canot be good at all. I think that we all worry that one day, we may get serious health issues relating to AAS, and thats when we really stop and think to ourselves is it worth it? Example: "I have kids, beautifull wife, money etc etc, and i am about 270lbs lookin great, what more could I want, but umm... I am not sure how long I am going to liver for, or how long for I will have 2 go through pain etc" all realating to steroids . I dont know guys, I hate this issues, I wish I never red this post, it pisses me off, it really does. Evereything that was written in this thread I already knew anyways, this just made me wake up a bit more thats all. This is a very touchy issue. Sometimes I feel that I wanna stop AAS, but I really want to be so huge that I cant fit though doors etc etc lol, I dont know. I may be happy with the way I look now, but I know that one day if I ever have health problems relating AAS I will regret what I did, I know I will. I have only done 1 cycle, but who knows how many more to come. I usually say "stop before its too late, you still have time", but I want results, quik results. What do you do? WHAT DO YOU DO? A lot of people including myself act a little cocky sometimes when it comes to AAS, and say things like "Ohh I dont care, I dont care as long as I am huge". They make comments like that, but really, do you think they would be saying that when they are getting told that they have a serious health issue relating AAS? I think that this reply I just wrote is the only post/thread or at least one of the few posts/threads that you canot argue. No one wants to die or have serious health problems that can lead to quik death etc etc. The only people that can argue this is people that want to die for some reason, or want to get seriously ill. So to them getting results from AAS and dieing sooner than what they should is a good thing. But its very highly unlikely that you will come across people like that. Just a possibility I suppose. But then again, there has been people that have used AAS in the past and have stopped for years and are now 50, 60 70 years old and are still healthy. So just because you use AAS it doesnt nessesrely mean that you will have health issues long term wise. But then again, you dont know, its a risk. Is it a big enough risk to take, even if it means that you have a chance of dieing sooner then you should? Is it? And also, there is people out there that try and take the easy way out by saying "Ohh I will only do 1 or 2 cycles and stop". Even if they do stop after 1 or 2 cycles, they dont know what can happen to them relating to their health. Everyone responds differently to different sort of chemicals, so even after 1 or 2 cycles you dont know whats going to happend in long term. Probably not much, but it is still a risk. Who agrees with me, and who doesnt? For the ones that dont, state reason please, I am curious. I respect everyones opinion. Hammerhead, great post bro, if anything, you are helping people by waking them up a little.

**bigcut77** · 02-15-2004, 07:26 AM

I guess it is all about what risks you (WE) are willing to accept. Hind site is always 20/20. It's kind of like the kid that passes up the opportunity to go to college so he can make money now. He will probably look back and kick himself in the ass for not going. Same thing for AAS. If I get heart disease in 20 years I will probably kick myself in the ass for my AAS use. Humans are self destructive by nature. Most of us live with very short term goals. We have turned into a now society. Alot of people look into the future and see the hazards involved but just choose to ignore them or think it won't happen to them. We would rather have the instant self gratification. Just my 2 cents