Need help with hcg & clomid

[jbs]

Hey guys, here is the situation:
For 6 wks now, 600mg Sus., 300mg Deca , and for the first 5 wks, 30mg day of dbol . I want to run this cycle for another 4 wks with the Sus., and Deca. I had originally planed to use clomid with hcg at the end of the cycle. Like this:

Last sustanon shot...
Start with clomid 100 mg a day for wk1, and for the next few weeks take 50mg a day.
Wait 3 weeks after the last sus. shot, then take HCG at 7500 wk1, under the skin ( like with an insulin needle), 5000 wk2, and 2500wk3.

From what I can tell this seems to be a good approach. A better approach, would have been to run clomid the whold damn cycle and to hell with the hcg, but hindsight is 20/20.

Now back to the point. My nuts have shrunken. Expected, however, I am itching to begin treatment right now for this problem. I would like to restore nut size, and everything that goes along with that, while conitinuing my cycle, via hcg and clomid. I don't know how feasible this is at this point, but I don't see why not. That does seem to be one function of hcg, to restore your nuts during a cycle.

Can someone offer a cycle for hcg and clomid, keeping in mind my situation, and why this is the way to run it.

Additonally, I have seen some wild shit on hcg recently that has left me really wondering about this product. There is a cutting cycle in the Feb. issue of MD, that reccomends using 10000ius of HCG for 14 days straight. I looked at that about five times. I have never seen that much hcg reccomended. In Anabolics 2000, after a heavy test cycle 7500 wk1, 5000 wk2 , 2500 wk3 is reccomended for a total of 10000ius. On another popular bb site, one respected person says to never take more than 500ius a day, and to never take it post-cycle. There seems to be no consensus on this drug.



As far as clomid is concerned. I honestly believe the best way to run that is to run it all the way through. Don't ever let your nuts shrink. Clomid is the bomb, it is an anti-estrogen, stops the boys from shrinking, and keeps your natural test flowing more or less, and it has been clinically proven to be safe in dudes for extended use.

Again, any help with my situation would be greatly appreciated.
Unless someone can show me the error of my way, I think that I'm going to run for the next ten days hcg at 1000ius, and for the next 7 days clomid at 100mg. Thereafter, clomid for the next several weeks at 50mg.

I am also running arimidex at .25mg a day. I hope that is enough to keep the estrogen at bay (gyno and bloat).

Thanks guys,
jbs

[kizer_soce]

Okay alot to go over here, personally I think you could have done a bit more research before cycling but that is besides the point now.

#1 DO NOT TAKE HCG POST CYCLE. Hcg will shut you down just like you are on a cycle, it needs to be taken mid and or towards the end of your cycle......while you are still on gear. HCG is crap IMO and not even worthwhile.

#2 Start clomid 3 weeks after last sust shot, 300mgx day 1, 100mg for 10 days then 50mg for 10 days.

#3 Clomid will do NOTHING to help maintain natural test production during a cycle OR keep your testicle size normal. With the introduction of androgens your body shuts down its own production b/c it is not needed and clomid nor any other drug will do anything to counter this effect.

#4 Continue the arimidex throughout the rest of the cycle, for the three weeks between your last dose of sust AND throughout clomid therapy and you will be fine.

PS you put too much faith in what Bill Roberts says, lol.

[jbs]

I appreciate the advice bro,
only I know a couple of guys personally that swear by using clomid throughout the cycle. They say without a doubt, from mucho anos of personal experience, that clomid, does maintain your nuts, and that your nuts will not shrink up. I know this is controversial, but I have also seen medical research that semi-supports this. If your nuts haven't shrunk up than they haven't stopped your natural test production. So you don't buy into this, what do you have to lose running clomid the whole cycle? Nothing, but money, because clomid has been proven to be safe in medical studies, in men, up to a year, with no increase in side effects. Just imagine if your nuts don't shrink. You very well could save yourself some money, have a much better cycle with your nuts in place, and an easier post-cycle. My buddies tell me because they use this system, besides seeing no nut shrinkage during the cycle, that the post cycle goes much smoother and they see an actual increase in gains over just using clomid after the cycle. Have you ever ran clomid throughout a cycle? I haven't , so I can not say for sure. Neither have a lot of people. I know what the conventional wisdom is on Clomid. Run it post-cycle with a frontload. But the thing about conventional wisdom is that it is only as good as the time it was meant for.

As far as reading up on the ancilliaries pre-cycle, I did as much research on the issue as I could, thats why I know that there are so many angles to hcg and clomid. As I stated before, I had a plan of action on this, which is still very viable, but I want to explore other possibilites becuase I don't like my nuts being shrunk up right now. If I had it all to do over again I would have run clomid all the way through, but now I am here. I am where everyone else is at that follows conventional wisdom for a moderately heavy sus/deca /dbol cycle, and maybe this is the best way to go, but I don't think so.

You are right about hcg being used post cycle, it can cause too many complications, that is why I want to use it now to get the nuts in order, then continue with clomid. I am with you, I completely question hcg's value though.

I look foward to your comments (if any).
Thanks bro,
jbs

[kizer_soce]

Yes I have run clomid throughout an entire cycle before and no it made no difference in post cycle recovery IMO.

Could you find a study that shows the link between testicular size and testosterone production? I didn't think there was a link between the two. You can have your nuts at full size mid cycle w/HCG and not produce one mg of testosterone naturally.

[jbs]

The reason your nuts shrink on a large cycle, including test, is because your glands, say wooo whats going on here with all this test, and then they send signals to one another and your nuts saying stop producing that shit( More or less). In an attempt to normalize things in the body, your gonads stop producing test. Since the fellows are no longer producing natural test, they shrink up like a muscle that is no longer needed.
Of course, the human body is a complicated thing, so not everybodys body behaves the same. Variations between individuals wouldn't be suprising. For example, the time it takes your glands to talk to one another and then your nuts may be all messed up. Or, it could be that you have different levels of hormones than is normal. There are many variables. Sure I think it is possible to have your nuts at full size and producing no test, but under normal circumstances if your nuts are full size that would lead me to believe that they are still producing test. Likewise, if they are shrunk up to the size of bb's, then that would lead me to believe that your glands have talked to one another and have come to the conclusion that your nuts should not be producing anymore test and through various hormones have said as much. That would all make common sense.

In the Lange 2002 Medical Diagnostic & Treatment reference book, one tell-tale sign of low test production is a shrinkage in ball size.