DOC M - Or any other Medically qualified person, need your help!

**KunipshunFit** · 02-26-2004, 09:26 AM

What's going on gentleman and ladies...I'm making another one of my randomly timed posts. However this posts deals with a medical issue.

My workout partner was diagnosed with Prostatitis yesterday, the doctor told him it was caused by high androgen levels in the body. He's all worried about 2 things, well honestly a few more... I guess I'll take them in order

1 - He is taking cipro (spelling) and does not know if this will **** up his cycle (he just started the cycle - test/deca - Test was 500mg Deca at 200mg (that was in one shot) He wants to know if it will be better for him to keep taking his **** (since the stuff takes awhile to get outta the body anyway) or if he should stop and wait until the anti-biodics have finished working, etc..

2 - He's freaken wigging out about Prostate cancer. He said he's had the symptoms for awhile for (prostatitis) but never did anything because it never hurt, he said 2 days ago it hurt bad, so he went in. I looked up the symptoms of both Prostatits and Prostate cancer, and they are the exact same...so i am useless in this regard. Any help with this is appreciated.

Random Information I may have forgot to include
Oh, the cipro (SP) that he is taking is at 1 tab 2x daily his cycle was going to be pretty huge...

He's 6'2 230-245 around 12-13%bf (not sure as he's bulking) generally you would think he is pretty healthy. He's ran a few cycles in his past i'm sure...i know at one point he was 260 @ 9-11%bf...so his cycle history is extensive i guess you would say. His current cycle was going to be

Wk 1 - 18 (1g test wk)
Wk 1 - 14 (400mg Deca wk)
Wk 1 - 4 (35mg Dbol ED) - He had not started this
Wk 12 - 18 (75mg Fina ED) - He had not started this
Wk 12 - 18 (50mg Winny ED)- He had not started this

===racks brain=== I think that is all the information I have, and hopefully I've not left anything out that is important or needed...If i have just ask and I'll try to talk to him and find out what I can...

-----On an incredibly funny note about this topic - I did get the joy of picking on him about having to have that "ass spreader" put up his butt to check on him...

Anyway I hope you guys can help, he's going crazy stressin..and I can understand that, I just want to help him out....

K'Fit

***Pheedno*** · 02-26-2004, 09:34 AM

GET OFF THE STEROIDS is what your friend should do. His doctor has stated his opinion on the cause, if your friend wants a second opinion, then get one; but it seems clear to me what his only option is based on current diagnosis.

Get off, take PCT, and re-assess the situation after medication has been administered.

Critical health concerns are the one thing that **** sure better take a man out of the game.

**Red Ketchup** · 02-26-2004, 09:39 AM

I'm no doctor (I only play on on TV

) but from personal experience I can tell ya to avoid dbol and tren at all costs if you have prostate problems.

Dbol turns my prostate into a melon in no time flat. As I don't really have any major prostate problems when I am not on gear, it's a necessary evil I live with when on. If your bud has prostate problems, then using gear is just downright stupid.

Red

**KunipshunFit** · 02-26-2004, 09:51 AM

I thank you guys for the quick response(s). I'm sure my friend will appreciate all of the help to.

Ending his cycle right now was what he has done and planned to do right after the meeting with his doc. He just wanted more information on the Deca and test as far as prostate relation.

I understand the vehement emphasis put on not doing the gear while having problems of any kind, especially prostate, but please there are is no need to say someone's stupid for doing something.

STUPID would be to not have the sense to try to ask someone qualified to answer the question, STUPID would be to not care one way or another and continue a cycle, STUPID is not having the sense to try to find information and get opinions about a subject. - I know nobody meant any harm or flames.

I await more comments, and thank everybody in advance for any and ALL help they can give.

**Red Ketchup** · 02-26-2004, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by KunipshunFit

please there are is no need to say someone's stupid for doing something.

My apologies bro, wrong choice of words on my part... I should have said "unsafe" instead of stupid. Not implying your buddy is stupid in any way. (I guess this is another expression that doesn't translate too well from french to english)

Red

**BUYLONGTERM** · 02-26-2004, 10:13 AM

Has he had his PSA levels checked???

**Prot** · 02-26-2004, 11:13 AM

test and deca will not cause prostatitis nor prostate cancer. His doctor is an idiot. He has probably caught an infection and thats why hes taking cipro, an antibiotic. The cycle is not related. Prostate cancer is related to high estrogen levels and some people aromatize more than others...but alcohol raises this estrogen more than AAS..

PSA checks are wildly inconclusive with many false positives. Prostate cancer is not common in younger males.

***Pheedno*** · 02-26-2004, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Prot

test and deca will not cause prostatitis nor prostate cancer. His doctor is an idiot. He has probably caught an infection and thats why hes taking cipro, an antibiotic. The cycle is not related. Prostate cancer is related to high estrogen levels and some people aromatize more than others...but alcohol raises this estrogen more than AAS..

PSA checks are wildly inconclusive with many false positives. Prostate cancer is not common in younger males.

Whether his cycle is directly related or not, based on his doctors diagnosis, he should cease administration. His doctor might be incredibly ignorant when it comes to AAS, but for the time being, it's his only professional opinion. Maybe you can fax a copy of your degree to him so he can take your opinion as the second.

**Prot** · 02-26-2004, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Pheedno

Whether his cycle is directly related or not, based on his doctors diagnosis, he should cease administration. His doctor might be incredibly ignorant when it comes to AAS, but for the time being, it's his only professional opinion. Maybe you can fax a copy of your degree to him so he can take your opinion as the second.

He asked for an opinion and I gave mine..Do you disagree with my opinion or are you just interested in flaming others...You attacked me..not my opinion by sharing disclaimers of any kind....I stand by my opinion

***Pheedno*** · 02-26-2004, 11:30 AM

No flame, just re-affirming my opinion, and putting perspective on the fact that he was just given advice to maintain his hormonal experimentation while being diagnosed with a critical health concern, from a person he does not know.

**longhornDr** · 02-26-2004, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Prot

test and deca will not cause prostatitis nor prostate cancer. His doctor is an idiot. He has probably caught an infection and thats why hes taking cipro, an antibiotic. The cycle is not related. Prostate cancer is related to high estrogen levels and some people aromatize more than others...but alcohol raises this estrogen more than AAS..

PSA checks are wildly inconclusive with many false positives. Prostate cancer is not common in younger males.

Testosterone may not cause prostate cancer but a large number of prostate cancers are androgen dependent. Thats why the major treatment options for prostate cancer are medical castration or androgen receptor blockers. Estrogen has been used to treat prostate cancer.

To say that it would be okay to run a cycle with prostate problems is moronic and dangerous.

**BigSexy50** · 02-26-2004, 01:49 PM

I think it is pretty **** cool that we as members can ask a really serious question like this, and true qualified people offer real answers. AWESOME !!

K-Fit, I hope your boy is OK.

**Prot** · 02-26-2004, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by longhornDr

Testosterone may not cause prostate cancer but a large number of prostate cancers are androgen dependent. Thats why the major treatment options for prostate cancer are medical castration or androgen receptor blockers. Estrogen has been used to treat prostate cancer.

To say that it would be okay to run a cycle with prostate problems is moronic and dangerous.

Another flame !

Hey I'll let you know that high estrogen levels are associated with prostate cancer and not high androgen levels. Prostate cancer does not normally occur in youner males but in older males who have experienced a drop in their own testosterone levels . The fact that medical doctors are often in error on treatment does not ameliorate your name calling.

Everyone is different and it is up to the individual to decide if he can continue but I firmly believe he does not have prostate cancer and his condition is more likely caused by a bacterial infection as evidenced by the prescription of an antibiotic. The doctor is using the usual steroid scare tactics because he has a scared patient.

It surprises me how people so associated with AAS usage are so quick to jump to the conclusion that AAS are responsible for some problem or are "dangerous". I bought into this hype for years but now believe that the hysteria is so totally absurd that I cannot find any ground to believe in any danger at all. If you gentle folks have any medical opinions to add fine but why attack my opinion with name calling without offering your own opinion as to the original question.

***Pheedno*** · 02-26-2004, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Prot

Another flame !

If you gentle folks have any medical opinions to add fine but why attack my opinion with name calling without offering your own opinion as to the original question.

Kind of like you telling Kfit his friends doctors an idiot?

And it seems to me opinions from myself and others on the situation were stated along with the disagreement we have with your own.

Your opinion is stated, leave it

**longhornDr** · 02-26-2004, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Prot

Another flame !

Flamed because you needed to be flamed. Your advice is moronic and dangerous.

There's no doubt whatsoever that whatever estrogen's role is in prostate cancer, it is mediated through the androgen receptor.

I'd love to see some evidence that androgens have no effect on prostate cancer or BPH, and that it's safe to cycle with prostate problems.

And websites by quacks trying to sell progesterone don't count as evidence.

**Prot** · 02-26-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by longhornDr

Flamed because you needed to be flamed. Your advice is moronic and dangerous.

There's no doubt whatsoever that whatever estrogen's role is in prostate cancer, it is mediated through the androgen receptor.

I'd love to see some evidence that androgens have no effect on prostate cancer or BPH, and that it's safe to cycle with prostate problems.

And websites by quacks trying to sell progesterone don't count as evidence.

Perhaps you can explain estrogens role because you seem vague? And can you present some evidence that androgens have an effect on prostate cancer or BPH? Also state whether prostate cancer is common in young men with high test levels? Is Cipro an antibiotic prescribed for bacterial infections?
Do high androgens cause prostatitis? If this young man had prostate cancer would his doctor be giving him an antibiotic? \

I think its safe to assume that doctors don't like to be criticised but their godly state is highly inflated...They kill over 100, 000 people in US each year from errors in hospitals alone. Not my statistics but theirs. Countless more are killed or harmed by errors in nursing homes or in offices. THe rate of death in liposuctions is astronomical compared to other procedures and it is allowed because it saves lives or makes money? Arthroscopy has been deemed harmful to knee recovery and a worthless prodeure delaying normal healing but at $5000 a pop for the doctor and a cut for hospitals it has not been banned although it costs consumers 2 billion a year or so. Routine hystercectomies are performed not for the patients welfare but the doctor's bank statement, etc,,etc

**Doc M** · 02-26-2004, 04:13 PM

I have been on and off here all day and this thread just seemed to have appeared out of nowhere..

Prot, your were flamed because you were stating incorrect and potentially dangerous information..One thing that specifically caught my attention was your statement on PSA tests..Although the test does not provide an absolutely conclusive diagnosis, it is a vital diagnostic tool in making an appropriate and warranted diagnosis..It is simply a piece of the pie..

Prostate cancer as longhorndr stated is androgen dependent in nearly all cases..

Although Prostate cancer is not generally seen in younger adult males, it is becoming increasingly more documented that men in there later 20's are showing a higher rate of Prostate cancer than ever before..

To sum this up I will say if he is having any problems of a medical nature, it is quite an unnecessary risk to continue on with the cycle until a positive diagnosis can be made by a qualified Doctor..It may be as simple as an infection, or it could be much more dramatic in nature..Kunip..He really needs to cease with the cycle, complete the regimine of Cipro, and then then follow up with his Doctor to get a complete checkup including a PSA and a blood workup..It is always safer to error on the side of caution when it comes to your health..

By they way, what is his age?

Doc M

**Doc M** · 02-26-2004, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Prot

I think its safe to assume that doctors don't like to be criticised but their godly state is highly inflated...They kill over 100, 000 people in US each year from errors in hospitals alone. Not my statistics but theirs. Countless more are killed or harmed by errors in nursing homes or in offices. THe rate of death in liposuctions is astronomical compared to other procedures and it is allowed because it saves lives or makes money? Arthroscopy has been deemed harmful to knee recovery and a worthless prodeure delaying normal healing but at $5000 a pop for the doctor and a cut for hospitals it has not been banned although it costs consumers 2 billion a year or so. Routine hystercectomies are performed not for the patients welfare but the doctor's bank statement, etc,,etc

Prot..Be very careful how you approach this from here on out..Your opinion is very welcome here and I have no problems with a debate of sorts, but you are starting with insults and that is not going to happen..Especially when you are insulting me indirectly by your statements..

Now, as far as your questions go, I can safely assume you have done some research and this is where you have gotten your opinions formed..Continue searching and you will start to see that the net is filled with conflicting reports, studies, and statements..Why? Because it is legal and easy to post these things on the net..Be careful what you read and then take to heart..It may cost you your health..

Doc M

**Prot** · 02-26-2004, 04:21 PM

And what of the recent study in Canada that showed a link between estrogen and testicular cancer, a cancer of young males...and associated with cheese consumption...the reason for cancers at an earlier age lies in our food consumption and environment...we have gotten away from wholesome meats to processed grains and foods raising estrogen levels...plastic in the environment has furthered this. AS far as I can research the latest studies show no link between HRT and prostate cancer and, indeed, the link seems to be between low testosterone and increased risk of prostate cancer.

**Doc M** · 02-26-2004, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by Prot

And what of the recent study in Canada that showed a link between estrogen and testicular cancer, a cancer of young males...and associated with cheese consumption...the reason for cancers at an earlier age lies in our food consumption and environment...we have gotten away from wholesome meats to processed grains and foods raising estrogen levels...plastic in the environment has furthered this. AS far as I can research the latest studies show no link between HRT and prostate cancer and, indeed, the link seems to be between low testosterone and increased risk of prostate cancer.

Are you saying cancer is solely because of our diet and plastic? And testicular cancer is not exclusively a "Young Man's" cancer..Yes, it is very common, but again it is not safe to say it picks certain age groups to haunt..And I will agree to some point that our diet and environment can play a role in cancers, but that is only a piece of the puzzle..

Doc M

**Prot** · 02-29-2004, 11:11 AM

http://content.health.msn.com/hw/men...ns/hw73372.asp

http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/uro...is.html#define

The above two references are on prostatitis and show the risk factors..no where is a high androgen level listed...

http[//cis.nih.gov/fact/5_23.htm

This publication by the National Institutes of Health inficates 70% of prostate cance is in men over age 65.

http://www.medicinenet.com/Testicular_Cancer/page1.htm

This indicates, as does all research, that testiculat cancer is primarily a disease of men/boys between 15-40.

It is sad that medical professional on this board spew out inaccuracies to defend their profession rather than sharing the truth with members. I would be very cautious of medical adice tainted by their prejudices and lacking integrity and truth.