PCT - for 20wk cycle ???

Printable View

03-12-2004, 12:23 PM
Russ616

PCT - for 20wk cycle ???

How should I run PCT for this cycle. It is a pretty long cycle of test ( 19wks )
Should I do the normal 300/100/50 for 21 days or do I need to run it differently...

Here is the cycle:
wk 1-4 35mg Dbol ed
wk 1-16 500mg EQ
wk 1-16 600mg Cyp.
wk 16-19 75mg prop ed

Appreciate the help..
03-12-2004, 12:45 PM
daem

20 weeks is a fairly advanced length of cycle time, however you will love what happens from week 10-16 with the EQ.

i would get ahold of some HCG as that will be your best friend during a duration like this. your clomid administration will be much more effective if the HCG has been used at 500iu's EOD during week 8 and week 16.

that would be a minimalistic way to run it, but i think you will be much happier than the clomid alone.

what kind of an anti are you running for 19 weeks? that makes a difference, too, if it is liquidex or femara as opposed to only nolvadex.
03-12-2004, 01:47 PM
Russ616

help

Quote:

Originally Posted by daem

20 weeks is a fairly advanced length of cycle time, however you will love what happens from week 10-16 with the EQ.

i would get ahold of some HCG as that will be your best friend during a duration like this. your clomid administration will be much more effective if the HCG has been used at 500iu's EOD during week 8 and week 16.

that would be a minimalistic way to run it, but i think you will be much happier than the clomid alone.

what kind of an anti are you running for 19 weeks? that makes a difference, too, if it is liquidex or femara as opposed to only nolvadex.

I only have access to clomid and nolv. How should I run it. Do you recomment running th nolv. throughout the cylce, or maybe just the first 4 weeks with the dbol. thanks
03-12-2004, 01:49 PM
Russ616

1 more

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ616

I only have access to clomid and nolv. How should I run it. Do you recomment running th nolv. throughout the cylce, or maybe just the first 4 weeks with the dbol. thanks

I also have access to liquidex, but I am not exactly sure how to run it.. Help needed...
03-12-2004, 01:58 PM
einstein1905

With a cycle of that length, I'd get ahold of some HCG and use it roughly at the times Daem said...maybe a couple weeks later than he recommended (just preference). Nolva 10mg/day and Ldex 0.25mg/day throughout. Bump nolva up to 20mg/day during pct with normal clomid...maybe extend clomid an extra week (probably not necessary).
03-12-2004, 02:11 PM
Russ616

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein1905

With a cycle of that length, I'd get ahold of some HCG and use it roughly at the times Daem said...maybe a couple weeks later than he recommended (just preference). Nolva 10mg/day and Ldex 0.25mg/day throughout. Bump nolva up to 20mg/day during pct with normal clomid...maybe extend clomid an extra week (probably not necessary).

this may sound stupid but during the 19 weeks is it possible to do 20mgs nolv every other day and ldex .5mg/ eod . because all I have is the liquid and I am not tryin to stick myself every day. Is it truly neccessary to run the nolv and ldex throught the entire cycle.
03-12-2004, 02:13 PM
einstein1905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ616

this may sound stupid but during the 19 weeks is it possible to do 20mgs nolv every other day and ldex .5mg/ eod . because all I have is the liquid and I am not tryin to stick myself every day. Is it truly neccessary to run the nolv and ldex throught the entire cycle.

Better to have asked beforehand. The liquid anti e's are for oral use only, so that should take care of that problem
03-12-2004, 02:28 PM
Russ616

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Better to have asked beforehand. The liquid anti e's are for oral use only, so that should take care of that problem

Let me get this straight, ( now i sound like a beginner ) All liquid anti e's are to be swalled, not injected...I have never taken liquid anti e's before. Always oral but I have no access to them anymore. So i swallow the clomid , nolv, and Ldex.
03-12-2004, 02:35 PM
einstein1905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ616

Let me get this straight, ( now i sound like a beginner ) All liquid anti e's are to be swalled, not injected...I have never taken liquid anti e's before. Always oral but I have no access to them anymore. So i swallow the clomid , nolv, and Ldex.

That's correct. They're just made in liquid form because UG guys can get cheap powder in bulk. Down the hatch....they taste awful though.
03-12-2004, 02:39 PM
Russ616

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein1905

That's correct. They're just made in liquid form because UG guys can get cheap powder in bulk. Down the hatch....they taste awful though.

Now can they be mixed with water or juice or is this straight up. All your help is appreciated....
03-12-2004, 02:40 PM
ColdSore

run nolva through out for sure, you could add dex to keep the bloat away....run a standard nolva/clomid pct for 21 days...

hcg might be needed, but if your still young IMO you can recover alot easier...i decided against it for my 20 weeker...but thats JMO
03-12-2004, 02:46 PM
groverman1

Bro no flame intended but to run a 20 wk cycle and not know how to run the proper PCT is crazy.
03-12-2004, 02:48 PM
Russ616

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdStone

run nolva through out for sure, you could add dex to keep the bloat away....run a standard nolva/clomid pct for 21 days...

hcg might be needed, but if your still young IMO you can recover alot easier...i decided against it for my 20 weeker...but thats JMO

ANother stupid question, what does IMO stand for.I see it all the time....
03-12-2004, 02:52 PM
groverman1

In my opinion
03-12-2004, 03:08 PM
abc 1

i would not recommend a standard 3 week pct following a 20 week cycle.

i would recommend you stay on pct for 8 weeks or longer if you really want to be safe.
03-12-2004, 03:13 PM
ColdSore

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc 1

i would not recommend a standard 3 week pct following a 20 week cycle.

i would recommend you stay on pct for 8 weeks or longer if you really want to be safe.

why do you say that?...you dont need 8 weeks to recover...21 days or at the most 28 days is all youll need...being on for 20 weeks is hardley any different than 12-15 weeks IMO...and hes running pretty mild componds.
03-12-2004, 03:13 PM
einstein1905

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc 1

i would not recommend a standard 3 week pct following a 20 week cycle.

i would recommend you stay on pct for 8 weeks or longer if you really want to be safe.

That's pretty excessive. On what do you base this? It's not as though using clomid is exactly "healthy". 3 weeks, 4 max I'd say.

You can use anything to chase the liquid anti e's. Mixing it allows for the potential to lose some. Your call though.
03-12-2004, 03:43 PM
abc 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein1905

That's pretty excessive. On what do you base this? It's not as though using clomid is exactly "healthy". 3 weeks, 4 max I'd say.

You can use anything to chase the liquid anti e's. Mixing it allows for the potential to lose some. Your call though.

i base this off of personal experience with a long cycle (16 weeks - not even 20) where i followed the typical 3 week pct, crashed harder than i can even explain, and took about 5 months to get back to half normal and another 5 months to get back to completely normal. by that time a good amount of physical/mental damage had been done.

doesn't matter if he's using 500mg or 1000mg of test at the 20 week mark, fact is his body has stopped producing natural test for over 4 months. mild compounds means nothing at that point.

i have to say this, but it's not a flame. if using clomid isn't exactly "healthy", please tell me the positive benefits of using anti-e's that completely stop the production and aromitization of estrogen while wreaking havoc on lipid profiles for the entire 20 week cycle? seriously, clomid's not healthy being run for 8 weeks but cycling various aas for 20 weeks is?

also, he's never done a 20 week cycle, no one knows if he will be fine. isn't it much safer to run pct a few weeks longer? what's so unhealthy about that? what's so bad about recommending a longer pct run, helps with the transition to natural training, sure did with me and i'll never stop recommending it. just because everyone says 3 or 4 weeks is fine doesn't mean a thing to me. i know what has/hasn't worked for me and i'll recommend my way to anyone interested in hearing it. doesn't mean it's right or wrong just a different way of doing things. i know a few people who have tried my method and have been much happier with the end result.
03-12-2004, 03:51 PM
einstein1905

Quote:

Originally Posted by abc 1

i have to say this, but it's not a flame. if using clomid isn't exactly "healthy", please tell me the positive benefits of using anti-e's that completely stop the production and aromitization of estrogen while wreaking havoc on lipid profiles for the entire 20 week cycle? seriously, clomid's not healthy being run for 8 weeks but cycling various aas for 20 weeks is?

Using anti e's in the doses we do (or should), roughly .25-.5mg/day (of Ldex) does NOT completely stop the conversion of test to estrogen. It simply limits it. Your 1x experience with poor post cycle recovery isn't typical. I believe you, but it still isn't typical. Prolonged use of clomid has been associated with retinal problems in a couple studies.
03-12-2004, 06:06 PM
abc 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Using anti e's in the doses we do (or should), roughly .25-.5mg/day does NOT completely stop the conversion of test to estrogen. It simply limits it. Your 1x experience with poor post cycle recovery isn't typical. I believe you, but it still isn't typical. Prolonged use of clomid has been associated with retinal problems in a couple studies.

my pct set up is alittle different. looks like this:
nolva: 30mg/day
clomid: 50mg/day
tribulus: 2g/day
maca: 3g/day
avena: 2g/day

i use low dose clomid because it doesn't affect my mood and i only use the clomid for 40 days, nolva is run all the way through (8 weeks). the supps stop at the end of week 7.
i'm stil not sure why this proposed pct is too long. i would tend to think that the typical clomid use (300, 100, 50) would cause more visual disturbances due to the fact that the drug was not made to be administered in such high dosages.
like i said, i don't think either is "wrong" but i'd rather be safe by allowing the hpta to fully recover with a longer pct than take the chance of doing too little and having the hpta crash after a shorter pct. this is what i believe happened to me and it was devistating.