MODS & VETS - A 'KING-SIZED' Problem

I'm running 1 cc of Propianate ED currently. I placed an order about 2 weeks ago for another 30 CC's of Prop, and some additional Winstrol. My source was out of town for over a week - dead grandmother. He just shipped the gear, even though I received a confirmation e-mail over a week ago.

(Help me out - don't tell me 'all gear is needed before cycle starts' - I know. I made a mistake. Now I've got to pay for it and try to work around it. Hopefully this may be a lesson to someone.)

So here I am, injecting my last CC of Propianate. It's going to be AT LEAST 4-5 days before the new gear arrives. I have :

-10,000 iu's HCG
-plenty of L-Dex
-plenty of Clomid
-reasonable amount of Winstrol.

I need to arrange these ancilliaries (and possibly Winstrol as well) in such a way that my levels won't plummet for a few days, and hinder my progress. To further complicate the problem, I was due to begin the Winstrol tomorrow, and run it for the last 4 weeks of the cycle. I haven't had any experience with HCG as of yet. This cycle CANNOT terminate early. That isn't an option whatsoever.

So I'm thinking I'll take 2000 iu's HCG sub-Q EOD until gear arrives, as well as upping the L-Dex dosage to prevent estrogen-related problems with HCG, and starting the Winstrol immediately to help conserve muscle.

Will that dosage of HCG be sufficient for me to retain what I have gained, and possibly gain a little more during it's part-time employment?

Will the L-dex prevent the estrogen problems, or do I need Nolva for the HCG?

Could I begin running the Winstrol now, in an effort to stave off any catabolism?

Is there any place for the Clomid here?

Thank you in advance, for I really need your help.

Split your last test dosage in half and run it EOD. Start your winny tomorrow and you will be fine.

It's gone. No more test... I used it last night. It was really only .75 CC anyway, last of the vial.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rickson

Split your last test dosage in half and run it EOD. Start your winny tomorrow and you will be fine.

---

I was going to suggest the exact same thing..Beat me to it..

Doc

See my above reply, thanks for the responses.

Well just hope it gets there soon. There isnt anything you can do, HCG isnt going to help for this situation. Start the winstrol now. Maybe get some 1-Test Cyp for this week.

Wouldn't the HCG boost my levels at least to well above the normal range? That's the impression I was under... thank you for your concern.

No. Its not testosterone. Its for restoring testicular atrophy and simulating LH.

Even if it did though, its not going to be noticeable in 5 days really.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Billy_Bathgate

No. Its not testosterone. Its for restoring testicular atrophy and simulating LH.

Even if it did though, its not going to be noticeable in 5 days really.

---

Yes, unfortunately Billy is correct..HCG will have little effect in that time frame..I would just pray to the mail god's for a speedy delivery..I know that's not what you want to hear, but it is your only choice at this stage of the game..It on't be that bad, so take solace in that fact..

Doc M

You are obviously a much more knowledgable AAS user than I, but I still don't quite understand your logic... based on these small excerpts from the 'Steroid Profiles' HCG section. Not saying you're wrong, just wondering about these conflicting ideas.

Quote:

---

HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasma- testosterone level

---

Quote:

---

6000 I.U. of HCG in a single injection resulted in elevated testosterone levels for six days after the injection. At a dosage of 1500 I.U. the pharmatestosterone level increases by 250-300% (2.5-3fold) com-pared to the initial value. The athlete should inject one HCG ampule every 5 days. Since the testosterone level remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days.

---

Quote:

---

HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen.

---

*Edit - I just highlighted that in the second quote, maybe the initial value was horribly low? Or does it raise the baseline range by that percent?

Quote:

---

I know that's not what you want to hear, but it is your only choice at this stage of the game..It on't be that bad, so take solace in that fact..

---

Thanks Doc, maybe it won't be that bad. Either way I'm really stressing about this...

bump

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by King Test

You are obviously a much more knowledgable AAS user than I, but I still don't quite understand your logic... based on these small excerpts from the 'Steroid Profiles' HCG section. Not saying you're wrong, just wondering about these conflicting ideas.

*Edit - I just highlighted that in the second quote, maybe the initial value was horribly low? Or does it raise the baseline range by that percent?

---

2.5-3X your own next-to-nothing test production is still insignificant relative to your plasma test levels now.
On the bright side, with one grandma out of the way, the odds of this happening again are slim :song: :cry:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by einstein1905

2.5-3X your own next-to-nothing test production is still insignificant relative to your plasma test levels now.
On the bright side, with one grandma out of the way, the odds of this happening again are slim :song: :cry:

---

King..That pretty much sums it up what einstein stated..Going from zero, though increased, the levels are really insignificant and will show little to no benefit..Just make this a lesson learned and continue on..Doc M

That makes sense to me. Thanks a lot for the help guys. It's good to have a knowledgable source of information, especially when you really need it. Hopefully someday I'll be able to return the favor. This board really is the best of the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by einstein1905

2.5-3X your own next-to-nothing test production is still insignificant relative to your plasma test levels now.
On the bright side, with one grandma out of the way, the odds of this happening again are slim :song: :cry:

---

That's why hcg is best used during a cycle to prevent athorpy, since it mimics LH it'll keep the boys alive.

JohnnyB

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

That's why hcg is best used during a cycle to prevent athorpy, since it mimics LH it'll keep the boys alive.

JohnnyB

---

it'll keep the boys from atrophying, but following each administration of HCG is still only an insignificant and transient elevation of endogenous testosterone production. The effect of your high levels of plasma test (AAS) will still be more than sufficient to maintain a suppressive effect on the HPTA. Using HCG during longer cycles to prevent atrophy can speed post cycle recovery, but the slight rise in endogenous test following each HCG administration is completely insignificant in relation to serum test levels while "on". I'm not sure if you're thinking that HCG throughout a cycle will maintain normal test production levels (6-11mg/day). If so, that's not the case. Nonetheless, HCG is useful during longer cycles.

Plus since HCG is producing "natural" test rather than esterified (is that the right word?) whatever boost you get is going to be as transient as I assume a shot of straight unestered test would be -I'm not sure what the time is exactly but if I recall correctly it's an hour or two.

From what I understand the reason Nolva is recommended with HCG is because the test "spike" it produces can be large enough to produce enough estrogen in response to stimulate gyno, although the test itself is transient.

Does that make sense?

Personally when I do HCG I only do 500iu at a time but I do it just before a workout because I figure I may as well take advantage of whatever test jump there may be.

By the way if you're well into your cycle and you've got some shrinkage this may be a good time to do a few days of HCG to get your nads up to size anyway. They'll probably rebound faster without exogenous test to compete with.

Quote:

---

By the way if you're well into your cycle and you've got some shrinkage this may be a good time to do a few days of HCG to get your nads up to size anyway. They'll probably rebound faster without exogenous test to compete with.

---

That's probably what I'll do, it'll probably help with my atrophy anyway.

Quote:

---

From what I understand the reason Nolva is recommended with HCG is because the test "spike" it produces can be large enough to produce enough estrogen in response to stimulate gyno, although the test itself is transient.

---

Should I just up the dosage of L-Dex, or will that not even be high enough?!

Thanks for your response, I'll be deciding what to do very soon now. Started the Winstrol today as recommended by Rickson and the others.

Thanks again everyone, I truly appreciate your help.

I've never read Ldex being recommended with HCG, it's always Nolva. Nolva's a surer bet anyway for preventing gyno from what I understand since it blocks attachment at the receptors rather than just knocking out estrogen overall like Ldex does.

I administered 5000 iu's HCG yesterday ( this was done for 2 reasons - because of my concerns with administration, I was forced to wait 2 days after my last shot of prop. If I had properly researched this possibility in advance, I would've administered 1000 iu's the day before my last shot, the day of the last shot, and so on. In essence, I'm trying to make up for lost time. I know about desensitization, and this is my first experience with the compound. Shouldn't be a problem.), 100 mg Winstrol and 75 mg L-Dex. This morning I've taken 1/2 my Winstrol (50mg), 25 mg L-Dex so far.

This marks the third day since my last shot of Propianate.

I had a highly unusual occurance last night, I was 'finishing up' after watching some good lesbian porn, and my semen was extremely unusual in appearance. It's composition was literally identical to that of foam, and it was pearl white. It was less like a liquid, and its texture was like a 'gunk' if you will. Also, it was comparable massive in terms of quantity.

I haven't lost any weight, and I will be honest and say I look the same in the mirror. Maybe a little more vascular already due to higher L-dex and the Winstrol.

I figure that the least I can do is share my experience with this problem, in hopes that maybe someone else in a similar situation can learn from it, and benefit by the mistakes I may be making (in terms of HCG use).

Thanks again for helping me out guys.

This marks the fourth day since my last Prop injection. The gear is expected to arrive anywhere from later today to Wednesday.

So far so good, I've always responded well to high doses of Winstrol, and lately is no exception. The scale hasn't tipped either way for a few days... and there hasn't been any muscle loss to speak of.

Between the HCG and Winstrol I'm guessing that I'm holding onto what I have, at least temporarily.

BTW what I have is 5'8", 245, 8% bodyfat. I'll keep you guys updated with anything notable, or more importantly when the GEAR ARRIVES.

If anyone is wondering why I'm documenting these things, in many ways it's an outlet for me to keep my mind off the fact that I have no TESTOSTERONE, which makes me extremely upset. I mean, what kind of King am I without Test? :unsure: