Results 1 to 22 of 22
Thread: GH Problem..
-
03-19-2004, 03:48 PM #1Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
- Location
- Italy
- Posts
- 1,414
GH Problem..
I have 3 friends that are taking Seizen right now, and all 3 are swelled up and puffy. Is that normal with the Seizen? I have used the Serostim with test, and never blew up like they are. I was using the 6g/18iu kits. They are using the Seizen 15ius, not sure of the g. They all three are running test also. Does anyone have any feedback on the Seizen? I want to run the GH again soon, but not if im going to swell up. The Seizen is readily available, but I have to wait a few months for the Serostim.
X..
They honestly look like swollen stay puff marshmellow men..
-
03-19-2004, 03:56 PM #2
How much HGH are they running each day?I've ran the above mentioned at 8 ius ed and was swollen like a pregnant woman.Feet and hands anyway.I dropped it down to 5-6 ius ed and the swelling decreased.
-
03-19-2004, 03:57 PM #3Originally Posted by Da Bull
-
03-19-2004, 04:01 PM #4Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
- Location
- Italy
- Posts
- 1,414
I just got off the phone with one of them, they are running 5ius per day. Should they cut down to maybe 3 or 4? I ran the serostim and was only using 3ius/day.
X..
-
03-19-2004, 04:22 PM #5Originally Posted by XWhiteDenali
-
03-19-2004, 04:45 PM #6Originally Posted by Da Bull
-
03-19-2004, 04:59 PM #7Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
- Location
- Italy
- Posts
- 1,414
thanks for the info DaBull, i relay the info to my boys..
X..
-
03-19-2004, 05:09 PM #8
I wouldn't have them run any type of anti-e it will inhibit the igf-1 which is what make HGH work. You do HGH to get higher igf-1 if you take an anti-e it'll lower your igf-1 which defeats the purpose of the HGH
JohnnyB
-
03-19-2004, 05:11 PM #9Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
- Location
- Italy
- Posts
- 1,414
Originally Posted by JohnnyB
-
03-19-2004, 05:22 PM #10Originally Posted by JohnnyB
-
03-19-2004, 05:39 PM #11Originally Posted by XWhiteDenali
JohnnyB
-
03-19-2004, 05:44 PM #12Originally Posted by einstein1905
JohnnyB
-
03-19-2004, 06:45 PM #13Originally Posted by JohnnyB
-
03-19-2004, 06:55 PM #14
How about letrozole ? Doesnt it react favorably with IGF-1?
D
-
03-20-2004, 09:26 AM #15Originally Posted by einstein1905
Anticancer Res. 2001 Jan-Feb;21(1B):585-8. Related Articles, Links
Effect of tamoxifen on GH and IGF-1 serum level in stage I-II breast cancer patients.
Mandala M, Moro C, Ferretti G, Calabro MG, Nole F, Rocca A, Munzone E, Castro A, Curigliano G.
Division of Medical Oncology, European Institute of Oncology, Via Ripamonti 435, 20141-Milan, Italy. [email protected]
OBJECTIVE: Tamoxifen suppresses insulin -like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) plasma levels in early and advanced breast cancer patients. Relationships between tamoxifen (GH) and IGF-1 are complex and not completely described yet. The present investigation was performed to evaluate the effect of acute and chronic tamoxifen administration on GH response to growth hormone -releasing hormone (GHRH), as well as on IGF-1 serum levels. MATERIALS AND METHODS: Evaluation of GH after administration of GHRH was performed (a) at baseline, (b) 3 hours after 20 mg oral administration of tamoxifen and (c) after 12 weeks of 20 mg a day oral tamoxifen treatment, in fifteen postmenopausal stage I-II breast cancer patients. IGF-I was measured at baseline and after chronic tamoxifen administration. RESULTS: The GH response to GHRH was significantly reduced after 12 weeks of tamoxifen 10 mg administered twice a day orally (mean peak 3.2 +/- 0.2 micrograms/l, mean AUC 261.3 +/- 18.2 micrograms/minute p < 0.01 versus basal AUC). A concomitant significant reduction of IGF-1 was observed after 3 months of tamoxifen treatment. Basal pretreatment levels of 113.2 +/- 15.5 micrograms/l were suppressed to 70 +/- 7.9 micrograms/l (p < 0.01). CONCLUSION: Our study confirm the inhibitory effect of tamoxifen on IGF-I and suggested, as shown in previous in vitro data, that its suppression could be directly related to GH reduction in response to GHRH stimulation
I've also seen where tamoxifen doesn't increase IGF-1 levels but does increase IGFBP3 levels, which lowers the amount of free IGF-1.
-
03-20-2004, 10:03 AM #16Senior Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2003
- Location
- Italy
- Posts
- 1,414
Interesting, i am gonna print this thread for my boys, and for future referenece. Thanks for the help..
-
03-20-2004, 10:32 AM #17Originally Posted by einstein1905
-
03-20-2004, 10:41 AM #18Respected Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Location
- Miller's Crossing
- Posts
- 6,270
IGF decreases from tamoxifin have been seen in studies, and refuted in others. In any case, I don't see minimal doses(10mg) having a significant effect.
AI's have only been shown to increase IGF in any studies I've seen.
I'll post some studies up here(I'm going back and forth so keep checking)
TAMOX
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/con...act/137/3/1089
http://www.lf2.cuni.cz/physiolres/19...e2/iss2cl8.htm
-
03-20-2004, 10:50 AM #19Respected Member
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
- Location
- Miller's Crossing
- Posts
- 6,270
-
03-20-2004, 05:34 PM #20
This study brings up something I've been wondering.
Effects of tamoxifen on insulin-like growth factors, IGF binding proteins and IGFBP-3 proteolysis in breast cancer patients.
Gronbaek H, Tanos V, Meirow D, Peretz T, Raz I, Flyvbjerg A.
Institute of Experimental Clinical Research, Aarhus Kommunehospital, Aarhus University Hospital, Aarhus C, Denmark. [email protected]
BACKGROUND: Recently an association between increased serum insulin -like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels and the development of breast cancer was demonstrated. Tamoxifen used in the postoperative treatment of breast cancer patients may exert significant effects on the IGF-I system. MATERIALS AND METHODS: To examine the effect of Tamoxifen treatment (20 mg/day) on changes in the IGF-I axis in 11 breast cancer patients before and after 4 months of Tamoxifen treatment and compared to 8 healthy subjects. IGF-I, IGF-II, IGFBP-1, IGFBP-2, IGFBP-3 and IGFBP-6 were examined by specific assays. IGFBPs were examined by Western ligand blotting and IGFBP-3 proteolytic activity by specific protease assay. RESULTS: Serum IGF-I was decreased before (63%) and increased during Tamoxifen treatment (60%). Total IGFBP-3 levels measured by IRMA were unchanged, however, intact IGFBP-3 measured by WLB was decreased (58%) before and increased (67%) during Tamoxifen treatment. IGFBP-3 proteolysis was increased before and reduced during treatment. IGFBP-4 and IGFBP-6 were decreased before and increased during Tamoxifen treatment. CONCLUSION: Significant changes in the IGF system were demonstrated before and during Tamoxifen treatment and may in part be involved in the effects of Tamoxifen treatment in breast cancer patients.
The reason I've been wondering this is there are studies that show people with cancer have elevated IGF-1, so I though t that maybe nolva reduces IGF-1 in an effort to treat the cancer. Now you got my mind going here, da*n you Pheendo
JohnnyB
-
03-20-2004, 05:55 PM #21Originally Posted by JohnnyB
I'm sticking with my theory on tamoxifen lowering GH, which in turn leads to lower IGF-1 levels, if there is any real lowering at all.
We also have to consider the factors in our lives that are contributing to elevated IGF-1 levels, such as resistance training and high levels of testosterone . It's not necessarily true that for people with normal serum IGF-1 levels, who demonstrate a reported 20% reduction in IGF-1 levels in response to tamoxifen, that people with extraordinarily high IGF-1 levels will see the same % reduction.
-
03-20-2004, 08:06 PM #22Originally Posted by einstein1905
JohnnyB
Thread Information
Users Browsing this Thread
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Heart and hair safe summer cycle?
03-25-2024, 07:30 PM in ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS