EQ or DECA for healing?

**bigbob12** · 03-24-2004, 10:01 PM

well, now I'm kinda torn between one of two steroids . I will be using this in a stack for an injured calve.

whats the consensus......EQ or DECA for injury healing??

I know HGH is the "best" but which of those two steroids above would be the better one..... thanks!

and some will say that I should not use roids at all for this, but I have been through 3 months with no improvement, so i need to try something new. thanks!!

**LuvMuhRoids** · 03-24-2004, 10:10 PM

EQ... Deca is more for lubricating joints.

**palequail** · 03-24-2004, 10:16 PM

I don't know if either will heal...I'd just go to a physical therapist

**Jack87** · 03-25-2004, 12:29 AM

I had a partial tear of my rotator cuff back in 95'-96'

Could even press a chair back under the kitchen table...

So much pain... After having the choice of getting cut to

fix things I decided to run a cycle of Deca to see if the healing

rumours were true before going thru with it...

They were and 6 weeks later no pain and it never came back...

My Doctor wanted to know what I did to fix it... lol

I have no idea how it works to heal, but it did for me...

**einstein1905** · 03-25-2004, 01:09 AM

Deca and Eq supposedly both increase collagen synthesis as well as obviously both increase protein synthesis, so either would make sense in that respect. However, I'm not sure AAS is the best choice for "healing". Theoretically, it can help, and in actuality it does help some, but it's no guarantee that it'll improve with AAS. Most likely muscle size/strength will increase before tendon strength. So, if it's a tendon problem, you can still be contributing even more strain on it via AAS.

Test, on the other hand, negatively affects collagen synthesis.

**100%NATURAL-theGH** · 03-25-2004, 01:53 AM

Also concider what sides you want to deal with, whether you want leaner or bulkier gains, and also if you want the BP effects that EQ will give you... I added them up and decided to go with deca ... but everyone has their own ideas... good luck!

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 03-25-2004, 02:02 AM

I'm not a Chemist, nor am I a Doctor, but Deca has on occasion taken pains from a few of my injuries away never to return, at least not back to the way it was

I have numerous beliefs and therories, but nothing in Black and White to back it up...Just telling you my experience with it.
TSW

**100%NATURAL-theGH** · 03-25-2004, 02:06 AM

What he's saying is... use the Deca ... duh... no brainer... if EITHER of the two are gonna do it... all my money would be on Deca.

**bigbob12** · 03-25-2004, 03:02 PM

alright, deca does sound like a good choice. but what do you guys think the dosages should be? and what should I stack it with if anything? thanks!

**Marcus201** · 03-25-2004, 03:32 PM

Hey Bro

I had a serious shoulder injury two years ago. I dislocated my shoulder playing baseball and had to have surgery to repair it. My rehab was going ****ty and I was constaintly popping pain pills. I started a cycle of Test and Deca five weeks after the surgery. About half way into it the pain went away and I was able to start puting muscle back on. I was able to throw again 6 months later. Go with the deca.

**xc600** · 03-25-2004, 04:12 PM

Eq Is Way Better

**100%NATURAL-theGH** · 03-26-2004, 02:43 AM

this is what I'm gonna run:
Weeks 1-13 Test E. 500mg
Weeks 1-10 Deca 400mg
Weeks 6-12 Winny 50mg/ED
Weeks 1-18 Nolva 10mg/ED
Weeks 1-18 L-dex .25mg/ED
Weeks 15-18 Clomid (Standard 21 day PCT)
I'm pretty sure this is how I'm gonna run it... the only thing I might change is the winny... I want to use it to combat the progestrin sides of gyno... and also maybe harden me up a little... I'm not sure how much and exactly when I'll use it... Still subject to change... you might want to concider bromo or b6 instead as winny may cancel out some of the decas lubricating and healing properties... Good Luck!

**Jack87** · 03-26-2004, 04:25 AM

Looks good...

Only thing I would change is to extend the Deca to 12 weeks since
it takes 3 weeks to clear your body and since you are running the
Test Ent for 13 weeks the timing will be perfect to start your
PCT 2 weeks after your last shot of Test... You could also push the
Winstrol back a little like weeks 10-15

**TheSevnthWarrior** · 03-26-2004, 04:37 AM

Originally Posted by xc600

Eq Is Way Better

**eya_21** · 03-27-2004, 01:34 AM

this is what my 1st cycle is gunna look like too, but do u think L-dex is really necessary here or just a prevention ... cause my friend couldnt hook me up with ldex

**100%NATURAL-theGH** · 03-27-2004, 01:47 AM

I think (from what I've read) that the l-dex will keep down water retention significantly as opposed to Nolva alone... I personally am going to run it... I don't want my bp to be raised any higher than need be.

**bigbob12** · 03-28-2004, 06:32 PM

Hey, just wondering.....can someone get EQ-dick like they can get deca dick? If one were to use just EQ, would the supression on natural test be great enough to do that?

if running a 10 weeks cycle with:
100 mg test/week
500 mg EQ/week

If one were to use just EQ, would the supression on natural test be great enough to do that? thanks!

**bigbob12** · 03-28-2004, 06:33 PM

How to increase collegen synthesis!! (i.e. - strengthen those tendons and ligaments)
originally posted by AnimalMass on competitivemuscle.com

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

AnimalMass

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think of this idea?

**newtogear** · 04-06-2004, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by bigbob12

How to increase collegen synthesis!! (i.e. - strengthen those tendons and ligaments)
originally posted by AnimalMass on competitivemuscle.com

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

AnimalMass

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think of this idea?

bigbob,

that was an awesome post. here's my problem. i'm about to do my first cycle of test-e only for 12wks b/c everyone told me my 1st cycle should only include test, and that's it. i wanted to take test-e w/ eq however, b/c i have a bad shoulder/rotator cuff from when i used to play base ball and figured the eq could really help that shoulder and the pain. it makes my hand go a little numb sometimes and is painful after flys or shoulder workouts.

how do you think that 12wks of test only is going to affect my rotator cuff?

**scotttiger54** · 04-06-2004, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by newtogear

bigbob,

that was an awesome post. here's my problem. i'm about to do my first cycle of test-e only for 12wks b/c everyone told me my 1st cycle should only include test, and that's it. i wanted to take test-e w/ eq however, b/c i have a bad shoulder/rotator cuff from when i used to play base ball and figured the eq could really help that shoulder and the pain. it makes my hand go a little numb sometimes and is painful after flys or shoulder workouts.

how do you think that 12wks of test only is going to affect my rotator cuff?

Hey bro i'll be completely honest.... i beleive test would be the best way to heal anything. Last year i had a compound fracture of the tibia during a football game(in case you don't know a compund fracture is F****n broke in half. I was on some sust and it was completely healedin 8 weeks. I came back right in time for the play offs and got a ring in the end. the doctor couldn't beleive it and i told him i was juicin and he told me that testosterone is a fountain of youth and that if done correctly it can cure any ailment. Just thought i'd let you in on that. Wish you the best bro

ST54

**newtogear** · 04-06-2004, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by scotttiger54

Hey bro i'll be completely honest.... i beleive test would be the best way to heal anything. Last year i had a compound fracture of the tibia during a football game(in case you don't know a compund fracture is F****n broke in half. I was on some sust and it was completely healedin 8 weeks. I came back right in time for the play offs and got a ring in the end. the doctor couldn't beleive it and i told him i was juicin and he told me that testosterone is a fountain of youth and that if done correctly it can cure any ailment. Just thought i'd let you in on that. Wish you the best bro

ST54

hey scott,

that's really good to know. i'm really looking forward to the test. however, from that article above, test does a good job on the bones, "While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn." but, i'm just worried about my rotator cuff b/c it's more about cartilage, collagen, ligaments, and tendants, than it is pure bone. but maybe the test will work, i don't know. i guess i'll find out soon, b/c i'm not going to be taking the eq w/ it this 1st cycle.

**bigbob12** · 04-11-2004, 12:27 PM

Ive posted on MANY different boards about this topic....what I have concluded is that there is really NO hard evidence between exactly which roids will help tendon and joint healing. But the conensus is that they WILL help accelerate growth and healing (of course). so, I am still bothered by my severe tendonitis in my left calve. I saw a sports medicine guy who treats some of the Green Bay packers. and he said it was necrosis around my tendon which was slowing the healing process.

So I just started a cycle of 1-3 anadrol -50, 500 test/400eq for 10 weeks. Hopefully by about week 5 ill see something. I am going to slightly work the calve and deep massage it to get it inflammed and harbor the healing effect. I will tell you guys how this goes!

**bigbob12** · 04-11-2004, 12:59 PM

Date: 09/07/03 02:03 AM
Author: Hogg
Subject: Why it is good and some other things.

A long time ago I said "why take both, they are about equal in terms of effect and use the same receptor" which is true, totally true, the strength advantage goes to deca in my opinion but with that comes the edema that is not found with eq.

Both effect collagen syn in a positive manner though EQ surpasses deca in this regard.

Both increase synovial fluid though deca surpasses eq in this regard.

EQ raises RBC effectively. Herein lies the problem.

So lets say that you had been using the supreme androgen, testosterone , at high dosages in prior cycles. Obviously there are concerns, namely malformed collagen and a loss of resiliency in connective tissues. One might opt to drop his test dosage but still seek a mass building effect.....what 2 drugs of all synthetics are 'clean', ie low androgenic component, but strong enough to produce quantifiable results and are beneficial to collagen syn??? Deca and EQ.

But, taking 800mg of deca could be a prog gyno issue in some and most definitely might cause some moodiness....it has progestenic activity....what does progesterone do to women??? Why do men who use deca by itself often feel lethargic, moody, and some lose their sex drive?? So for all of those reasons, one might consider using deca at a reasonable dosage such that the prog gyno and sides considerations are minimized.

But why would one bother with deca and something else rather than to just take 800-1000mg per week of eq? Simple, the RBC issue and eq aromatizes at extremely high dosages....

EQ is hands down stronger than primobolan . Well why not use something else??? Such as??? there are other drugs like masteron clostebol acetate but honestly, how available are they to most people and at what cost??? IP IP IP....yeah, if you use his stuff, sure go right ahead.

But for many people, eq and deca are both cost effective and readily available, not to mention that they are both very effective synthetics without the ugly androgenic sides like tren or collagen issues with drugs such as winstrol ...and they can easily be augmented with an oral such as anavar .

400mg of deca and 400mg of eq provides not only a beneficial effect on collagen syn, but increased appetite, vascularity, reasonable mass gain, healthy joints, and relief from over-use and repetitive use injuries in some users.

Given the foregoing, deca and eq make sense. I have been using 300mg of test, 400mg of deca and 400mg of eq with good success. You dont 'blow the **** up' but I dont 'blow the **** up' off of anything anymore. What I have to look for is slow and consistent mass and strength gain and this is what I have found with this combination.

I have to give credit to hulk for convincing me to try it. I knew all of this for quite some time but continued to believe that big dosages of test were necessary. Once I got my head out of my ass, my nagging injuries and aches and pains seem to go away.

*************

Hope that helps you man.

lata,

__________________
~Tank

**TA63** · 04-11-2004, 01:38 PM

excellent thread. Very informative.

**BASK8KACE** · 10-16-2004, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by bigbob12

How to increase collegen synthesis!! (i.e. - strengthen those tendons and ligaments)
originally posted by AnimalMass on competitivemuscle.com

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca , Equipoise , Anavar , and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

AnimalMass

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you guys think of this idea?

Excellent post. I was just doing some research on the net about collagen and came across AnimalMass' post. I was going to post it here, but found that you had already done it. Good job.

Bump

Xxample