anyone ever use this stuff or have any comments to make about it BESIDES it being very expensive for the needed doses (800mg-1000mg/day)? i have only heard that it can hinder cortisol production by about 30%. any users on board?
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anyone ever use this stuff or have any comments to make about it BESIDES it being very expensive for the needed doses (800mg-1000mg/day)? i have only heard that it can hinder cortisol production by about 30%. any users on board?
wait.. isnt that a supplyment.. wrong forum bro...
I haven't seen the study to back that up, but I heard roughly 600-800mg to suppress cortisol by roughly 1/3 too. This would be good possibly post cycle, but not cost efficient during a cycle, as AAS work to help suppress the actions of cortisol to some extent.Quote:
Originally Posted by flexshack
yes i know, but it deals with cortisol (a hormone) so i thought it would be fine here.Quote:
Originally Posted by barbarian
on a side note, to what extent do aas suppress cortisol? it's dose dependent and also kind of steroid dependent, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by einstein1905
interesting, I'd like to see more about this as it could play a very important role in pct as WE all know that corisol levels are the hormone foremost responsible for loosing that hard earned muscle to raise our natural test levels once one discontinues aas.
exactly. very interesting stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by 50%Natural
i remember reading about this stuff over at meso a while ago...a lot of bros over there recommended it for PCT, might wanna go over there and do a search for it...
thanks. are you talking about meso rx?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby
Eur J Clin Pharmacol. 1992;42(4):385-8. Related Articles, Links
Blunting by chronic phosphatidylserine administration of the stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in healthy men.
Monteleone P, Maj M, Beinat L, Natale M, Kemali D.
Institute of Psychiatry, First Medical School, University of Naples, Italy.
The effect of chronic administration of phosphatidylserine derived from brain cortex on the neuroendocrine responses to physical stress has been examined in a placebo-controlled study in 9 healthy men. Phosphatidylserine 800 mg/d for 10 days significantly blunted the ACTH and cortisol responses to physical exercise (P = 0.003 and P = 0.03, respectively), without affecting the rise in plasma GH and PRL. Physical exercise significantly increased the plasma lactate concentration both after placebo and phosphatidylserine. The results suggest that chronic oral administration of phosphatidylserine may counteract stress-induced activation of the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in man.
Neuroendocrinology. 1990 Sep;52(3):243-8. Related Articles, Links
Effects of phosphatidylserine on the neuroendocrine response to physical stress in humans.
Monteleone P, Beinat L, Tanzillo C, Maj M, Kemali D.
Institute of Medical Psychology and Psychiatry, First Medical School, University of Naples, Italy.
The activity of brain cortex-derived phosphatidylserine (BC-PS) on the neuroendocrine and neurovegetative responses to physical stress was tested in 8 healthy men who underwent three experiments with a bicycle ergometer. According to a double-blind design, before starting the exercise, each subject received intravenously, within 10 min, 50 or 75 mg of BC-PS or a volume-matched placebo diluted in 100 ml of saline. Blood samples were collected before and after the exercise for plasma epinephrine (E), norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (DA), adrenocorticotropin (ACTH), cortisol, growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL) and glucose determinations. Blood pressure and heart rate were also recorded. Physical stress induced a clear-cut increase in plasma E, NE, ACTH, cortisol, GH and PRL, whereas no significant change was observed in plasma DA and glucose. Pretreatment with both 50 and 75 mg BC-PS significantly blunted the ACTH and cortisol responses to physical stress.
there she blow jobs..thanks einie
bingo, thanks. you beat me to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by einstein1905
i have heard that somewhere around 100grams of high glycemic carbs are needed post workout. i wonder if the same post workout carb loading is so imperative when taking phosphatidylserine? i do know that carb loading is necessary for the insulin spike in order to replace lost glycogen and to counteract cortisol. but if cortisol is minimized by the supplement then how much insulin is really needed to just replace glycogen stores? any less than what we take in now post workout? just curious.
Why not clen and ketotifen? Or clen alone...similar effects and dirt cheap.
why not clen, ketotifen, hcg, nolva, clomid, tribulus, and phosphatidylserine then? sounds like one hell of a pct
The high GI carbs intake post w/o to get the natural insulin spike is more for its nutrient shuttling IMO. The cortisol suppression is just a welcome bonus. I wouldn't change post w/o carb intake.Quote:
Originally Posted by flexshack
Yes, but prolonged cortisol suppresion also hinders your metabolic code, causing a fall in your BMR, which is why some people take t3 alond side their AAS, but it's not necessarily your thyroid that's being effected. Sorry if that's a little off topic, but I would recommend against just taking a cortisol blocker, or supressor, unless your also taking something anabolic to prevent a catabolic state.Quote:
Originally Posted by flexshack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mallet
this is very interesting. you said that by suppressing cortisol, you can actually suppress your metabolism as well? do you know why this effect occurs? did you find any studies? also, by reducing cortisol production wouldn't that boost natural testosterone levels (i have heard that excess cortisol for prolonged periods can cause hypogonadism--so you see my logic here). if this is the case, then how catabolic could it possibly be?
okay, that's what i figured.Quote:
Originally Posted by einstein1905
Too much cortisol suppression can also make you very susceptible to inflammation, especially in joints.
so i have heard. as a matter of fact, when i was researching ps i found some anecdotal evidence of inflamed joints or "itis" problems. what gets me is that ps is only supposed to suppress up to around 30%. is this really too much? i guess so for some.Quote:
Originally Posted by einstein1905
PS should suppress cortisol in a dose-dependent manner to a certain point. So, to say "PS supresses cortisol 30%" isn't quite right, whereas "~600mg of PS supresses cortisol by ~30%" is more the case, according to the 2 papers above.Quote:
Originally Posted by flexshack
Swale, the HRT doc on Meso, recommends 300mg/day for cortisol supression and not any higher.
i should have been more clear. 800mgs-1gram for the 30% suppression range.Quote:
Originally Posted by einstein1905
yeah, i saw that doc's comments too. he also claimed that a bodybuilder patient of his wanted to suppress his cortisol prior to a contest but the doc didn't recommend it. 300mgs tops, can't be doing all that much suppression though if it takes 800mgs for 30%. although, i have read that most of ps mind, memory, and nootropic effects, if you will, come from around that dose of 300 or so.
Probably one of the most effective things AAS, particularly testosterone and its close cousins do is suppress cortisol. I believe a testosterone dose of over 300 mg per week can completely shut down cortisol, so then the rules like you should not workout more then 45 minutes to hour at a time can be broken and now do 2.5 hour workouts with no fear of kicking in cortisol. It can be said that steroids work their magic better at keeping away cortisol then they do with their direct androgenic effects on the body.Quote:
Originally Posted by flexshack
Of course best thing is make sure you are properly nourished before attempting such a strenuous workout regiment even if you are on steroids.