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  1. #1
    Kodiak is offline New Member
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    esters and Sustanon - getting to the bottom of it

    Below you will see two graphs. They are somewhat arbitrary, but show two hypothetical models for the release of testosterone into the bloodstream by two different esters.



    We know that longer esters have longer half lives which means that given the same quantity of (testosterone enanthate )TE OR (testosterone propionate ) TP, test from TE should release into the bloodstream more slowly than TP. Consequently TE has a lower peak than TP, but the release is more sustained. This is clear in both graphs.

    My question is which of the graphs better represents the way test is released into the body from an intramuscular injection of esterified test? A) shows a slow rise to a peak and then an even drop off, while B) shows levels rising quickly soon after injection and then trailing away. I ask, because there is an important difference between the two graphs. That is in A) the peak times of the two steroids occur at different times, but in B) they occur at about the same time. This difference is really important and I can comment on this some more when I get some answers.

    doctors, vets and chem students - any thoughts please.
    Last edited by Kodiak; 04-06-2004 at 02:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    The 2nd is more realistic
    I see what you're getting at, but you're leaving something out. You want to get to and maintain a peak plasma test level. To do this, you need to inject at a frequency where (degradation + binding) = replenishment, which is based on half life and dose. When you have a multiple estered test, this isn't possible. You're looking at it in terms of a single injection in your case.....you need to step back and look at the bigger picture.

  3. #3
    Kodiak is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by einstein1905
    ....You're looking at it in terms of a single injection in your case.....you need to step back and look at the bigger picture.
    For sure this is a simplified example with one inject. I release that with multiple injects those peaks and valleys are going to even out.

    The reason I posted this was because because I have been prescribed Sust for low test levels. When I first heard about Sust it sounded like a good thing. 4 esters of different lengths, nice even test levels over 3 weeks. That's because I thought esters behaved like in diagram A). But if diagram B) is truer then for the life of me I can't understand the reason for Sust. It means that the 4 different esters combine to create a massive peak at the beginning with an equally massive drop. This is the worst possible situation for HRT or training. The whole point of Sust to my knowlege is to reduce the frequency of injects and that can only be achieved with a more sustained release. The people at Organon are not idiots are they? I just don't understand.

    Incidentally there is no way of contacting them by email. I tried ringing them locally to get hold of some research papers and they virtually told me to phuk off.
    Last edited by Kodiak; 04-06-2004 at 03:21 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodiak
    For sure this is a simplified example with one inject. I release that with multiple injects those peaks and valleys are going to even out.

    The reason I posted this was because because I have been prescribed Sust for low test levels. When I first heard about Sust it sounded like a good thing. 4 esters of different lengths, nice even test levels over 3 weeks. That's because I thought esters behaved like in diagram A). But if diagram B) is truer then for the life of me I can't understand the reason for Sust. It means that the 4 different esters combine to create a massive peak at the beginning with an equally massive drop. This is the worst possible situation for HRT or training. The whole point of Sust to my knowlege is to reduce the frequency of injects and that can only be achieved with a more sustained release. The people at Organon are not idiots are they? I just don't understand.

    Incidentally there is no way of contacting them by email. I tried ringing them locally to get hold of some research papers and they virtually told me to phuk off.
    The "4 tests in one" mentality hooks many people. There are so many people on the boards that use sust, it brings tears to my eyes. After you reach your peak plasma levels, if you inject based on the half life of one of the esters, the other esters will cause spikes. It's inevitable. If you shoot sust EOD and use prop in between, like TSW does, it makes more sense. However, a single estered test is the ultimate......hard to argue with that.

  5. #5
    Kodiak is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by einstein1905
    ...a single estered test is the ultimate......hard to argue with that.
    If graph B) is the more accurate then I agree 100%. But if it's true, then a product like Sust which was supposedly designed for nice even test levels from infrequent injections makes no sense. I can't help thinking that somewhere we are missing something.

  6. #6
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    RJM03 is offline Senior Member
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    I agree with B being more realistic. And I also agree at a single ester being ultimately the best choice for consistent blood plasma levels, I dont understand the gimmick of Sust. Maybe gimmick is a bad choice of word but what I am getting at is with 4 esters all with different half lives, how is it possible to keep a steady blood level w/o injecting prop ED with EOD Sust injects.

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