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  1. #1
    the dent depot's Avatar
    the dent depot is offline Senior Member
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    The danger of the A in ECA--->

    I have decided to start taking an ECA stack to help with my leaning up for my next cycle. As with all other things, I had to know as much as possible about ECA before I'd start taking it. I have found that most people are taking: 25mg E/ 200mg C/ 325mg A 3 times a day...

    Some said they omit the A, but it is truely part of the synergy and it will keep the magic going...otherwise the effects wear off fairly quickly. Therefore with the a, there is no real need to cycle on/off like Clen .

    Through further research I have found that its not a good idea at all to take 975mg/day of A, as many are. I think 325/day is going to give the same effect and not tear your stomach to bits...among the many other potential negatives. Here is a bit of info I have found...most is like this that I find:

    Low dose Aspirin

    With chronic (regular) use, very little aspirin is needed to alter prostaglandin levels. It is true that energy expenditure studies have used full-strength aspirin, but I think it is unwise to take a full-strength aspirin three times a day. Chronic use of high dose aspirin causes too many side effects (3). Take one 81 mg enteric-coated aspirin with breakfast. Unlike aspirin, the side effects of ephedrine subside with regular use (1, 2).

    Of course, taking huge doses of ANY drug for recreational purposes is a dangerous endeavor but, when used sensibly, ephedrine (ma huang) has an impressive safety record dating back thousands of years. On the other hand, regular use of aspirin is known to increase the risk of hemorrhagic stroke (3). In addition, people with abdominal obesity are twice as likely to have a heart attack or stroke (4). Sleep apnea and snoring, which is common among the obese, is associated with an increased risk of stroke (5). Low potassium levels (common among dieters) also increase ones risk of having a stroke. In fact, it has been shown that a high intake of potassium can reduce the risk of stroke by 40 percent (6). Wow! Tragically, rather than confuse the issue with facts, grandstanding politicians and the media blame ephedrine and the FDA imposes drastic limitations on the amount of potassium allowed in supplements.


    Department of Physiology, Centre Medical Universitaire, Geneva, Switzerland.

    The pivotal role of the sympathoadrenal system in the defense of le milieu interieur has, in the last 15 years, been extended to include the fat stores-a notion that forms the basis of current strategies for thermogenic stimulation in obesity therapy. The search for effective and safe sympathetic stimulants has been directed at two main levels: (i) the development of novel beta-agonists selective for thermogenesis, and (ii) the evaluation of drugs already in clinical use for other purposes (e.g. ephedrine) which could conceivably increase the release of catecholamines to levels that enhance thermogenesis without significant cardiovascular effects. A re-direction of these strategies seem inevitable because at therapeutic doses, the thermogenic effects of these sympathomimetics seem to be considerably dampened by negative feedback mechanisms that operate both extracellularly (e.g. via adenosine & prostaglandins) as well as inside the cells (via cAMP phosphodiesterases). Such a contention is supported by studies both in man and in animals showing that methylxanthines and aspirin, drugs known to be capable of interfering with these modulators, potentiate the thermogenic effects of ephedrine. Future research aimed at clarifying the types and subtypes of these negative modulators of sympathomimetic-induced thermogenesis and their targeting by more selective antagonists would no doubt be pivotal in providing the safe drug combination with the necessary thermogenic properties to assist the management of obesity.

    So I say 25/200/100 3 x a day is the safest/ most effective way for us to go.

    JMHO,

    D

  2. #2
    powerlifter's Avatar
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    325mg of aspirin is plenty to get the anti - platelet aggregation effect. Nice post Bro. So right - it is all political.

  3. #3
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    From the start I've only used 81mg aspirins with each dose of ECA

    I "homebrew" my eca 25/200/81 mg 3 times a day and it works fine for me.

    tried it with 325mg "standard" aspirins and it thinned my blood way too much (see the hemerhoidal bleeding thread )

    Red

  4. #4
    powerlifter's Avatar
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    I think I should clarify - the 325mg of Aspirin is sufficient to last all day - IMO it doesn't need to go with each ephedrine / caffeine administration - just my opinion Bros

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    Excellent post....I love to see it when people dig up info for themselves. The only way we're going to advance is by taking full advantage of what is currently known.

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerlifter
    I think I should clarify - the 325mg of Aspirin is sufficient to last all day
    That makes a lot of sense! It's actually what I do when I run out of 81mg aspirins.

    Red

  7. #7
    quebecbulk is offline Associate Member
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    yep you sure hit the nail on the head....when i first started takin eca i always took the whole 325mgof aspirin.

    Now i split the 325mg tab in 4 equal piece to give me 81mg...witch is more than enough to get the full benefit of ther combo.

  8. #8
    powerlifter's Avatar
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    Bros the onset of aspirin's action is less than 30 minutes from ingestion - the overall anti - platelet aggregation effect lasts for the life of the platelets in the body - just for everybody's edification

  9. #9
    the dent depot's Avatar
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    I am going to bump this back up because I am still hearing people say that the A has no real purpose in the ECA stack.......

    Read the last paragraph carefully.

    Maybe this could also be posted on the education area or maybe a sticky of some sort.....?

    D

  10. #10
    SportsMedVIP's Avatar
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    I have just been using the 81mg daily dosage aspirins as well. I couldn't imagine taking a regular one 3 times a day for a month. Hell on the stomach and I'm not a fan of taking medicine if I don't have to.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by the dent depot
    I have decided to start taking an ECA stack to help with my leaning up for my next cycle. As with all other things, I had to know as much as possible about ECA before I'd start taking it. I have found that most people are taking: 25mg E/ 200mg C/ 325mg A 3 times a day...

    Some said they omit the A, but it is truely part of the synergy and it will keep the magic going...otherwise the effects wear off fairly quickly. Therefore with the a, there is no real need to cycle on/off like Clen .

    Through further research I have found that its not a good idea at all to take 975mg/day of A, as many are. I think 325/day is going to give the same effect and not tear your stomach to bits...among the many other potential negatives. Here is a bit of info I have found...most is like this that I find:

    Low dose Aspirin

    With chronic (regular) use, very little aspirin is needed to alter prostaglandin levels. It is true that energy expenditure studies have used full-strength aspirin, but I think it is unwise to take a full-strength aspirin three times a day. Chronic use of high dose aspirin causes too many side effects (3). Take one 81 mg enteric-coated aspirin with breakfast. Unlike aspirin, the side effects of ephedrine subside with regular use (1, 2).

    Of course, taking huge doses of ANY drug for recreational purposes is a dangerous endeavor but, when used sensibly, ephedrine (ma huang) has an impressive safety record dating back thousands of years. On the other hand, regular use of aspirin is known to increase the risk of hemorrhagic stroke (3). In addition, people with abdominal obesity are twice as likely to have a heart attack or stroke (4). Sleep apnea and snoring, which is common among the obese, is associated with an increased risk of stroke (5). Low potassium levels (common among dieters) also increase ones risk of having a stroke. In fact, it has been shown that a high intake of potassium can reduce the risk of stroke by 40 percent (6). Wow! Tragically, rather than confuse the issue with facts, grandstanding politicians and the media blame ephedrine and the FDA imposes drastic limitations on the amount of potassium allowed in supplements.


    Department of Physiology, Centre Medical Universitaire, Geneva, Switzerland.

    The pivotal role of the sympathoadrenal system in the defense of le milieu interieur has, in the last 15 years, been extended to include the fat stores-a notion that forms the basis of current strategies for thermogenic stimulation in obesity therapy. The search for effective and safe sympathetic stimulants has been directed at two main levels: (i) the development of novel beta-agonists selective for thermogenesis, and (ii) the evaluation of drugs already in clinical use for other purposes (e.g. ephedrine) which could conceivably increase the release of catecholamines to levels that enhance thermogenesis without significant cardiovascular effects. A re-direction of these strategies seem inevitable because at therapeutic doses, the thermogenic effects of these sympathomimetics seem to be considerably dampened by negative feedback mechanisms that operate both extracellularly (e.g. via adenosine & prostaglandins) as well as inside the cells (via cAMP phosphodiesterases). Such a contention is supported by studies both in man and in animals showing that methylxanthines and aspirin, drugs known to be capable of interfering with these modulators, potentiate the thermogenic effects of ephedrine. Future research aimed at clarifying the types and subtypes of these negative modulators of sympathomimetic-induced thermogenesis and their targeting by more selective antagonists would no doubt be pivotal in providing the safe drug combination with the necessary thermogenic properties to assist the management of obesity.

    So I say 25/200/100 3 x a day is the safest/ most effective way for us to go.

    JMHO,

    D
    Excellent Post!

    Interesting Study...

    I think Red Ketchup always uses 81 mg for his stack...
    (I know photographic memory is a bitch!)

    but as you know I have devoleped an ECY-stack a couple of times (The posts have all vanished since the crash!)
    But Aspirin isn't needed if used two weeks on 2 weeks of!

    Furthermore ECA is a synergystic stack if used in a rartio of:

    1/8/2 so 25 mg E/200 mg C/50 mg A

    (although people used to think it was
    1/10/4 so 30 mg/300 mg/120 mg was the "magical formula"
    stacker 1 was this formula I think)

    I will look up that source when I can find it!

    But many studies
    (and so does my experiences and that of others like the people I give samples of my ECY to)
    showed that Aspirin although part of the synergy didn't raise fatburning and mobilizing of fatty acids significantly --> In other terms it is useless in the stack (only important thing is that it does not get your body to lose fatburning effect from the E and C --> Like Ketotifen in SuperClen but if used 2 weeks on 2 weeks off there isn't a need for the Aspirin)...

    Furthermore Aspirin over prolonged use can cause quite some Long-term damage and lose its effectiveness in painkilling (so the next time you get a headache you will not benefit from aspirin but go for heavier Painkillers
    --> Most people get hurt because they got so used to aspirin that only e.g. Ibuproven is an effective painkiller, but most people don't know that Ibuproven is very dangerous if used when somebody is experiencing stomachpains etc so always using Ibuproven when for instance having stomach problems can cause serious trouble)...

    I remember my first year in MedSchool when we were taught the dangers and abuse of AcetylSalicylacid (Aspirin)!

    P.S. Read my post on the new Fatburning stack you all must try!

    called:

    Since the ephedra Ban: Any good fatburners left? Read this Guide

    Greets
    Kingofmasters
    Last edited by kingofmasters; 05-20-2004 at 11:17 AM.

  12. #12
    1-Cent's Avatar
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    I'd like to use ECA in a cutter one day but I find that aspirin makes me extremely tired so I don't think it would work well for me

  13. #13
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    How much poatssium are talking about as a supp. I have sleep apnea and snore like a _--------- but I am not obese or big bellied. Now I'm scared I'm gonna have a stroke or something.

  14. #14
    chicamahomico's Avatar
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    I personally omit the asprin and just go with ephedrine & caffiene. In my experience the sides from asprin are not worth it and I have not noticed a reduction in the effectiveness.

  15. #15
    the dent depot's Avatar
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    Bump for the guy that thinks 4000mg a day of A is safe. ( Someone just tried to argue that I dont know what Im talking about...that the proper dose for the A in the eca is 325 per...and that 975mg/day is very safe because he knows that you can take 4000mg/day safely)

    D

  16. #16
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    fine so maybe you are right but i know many people that have taken 300 mg three times a day and have had no problems and i was always told that you take it gfor like 5 days and then take 2 days off and so on but if you say it is better your way i will try it. and i'm not a prick just never got to read this thread and when you have been told something from day one by many peopl;e you tend to follow suit. but now i know that the benefits are there without the high dose of asprine and i never said that 400mg a day was safe i told you it says you can take up to 12 a day.

  17. #17
    the dent depot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGB
    fine so maybe you are right but i know many people that have taken 300 mg three times a day and have had no problems and i was always told that you take it gfor like 5 days and then take 2 days off and so on but if you say it is better your way i will try it. and i'm not a prick just never got to read this thread and when you have been told something from day one by many peopl;e you tend to follow suit. but now i know that the benefits are there without the high dose of asprine and i never said that 400mg a day was safe i told you it says you can take up to 12 a day.
    Its cool man...I was only trying to share what I have learned.

    D

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