Please read this about Proteins!

[kingofmasters]

Due to a couple of responses from Bros on this Board I decided to make this post and put it in the Steroid section since this is most read by novices (for who this post is intended)


People tend to forget that the easier it is to keep diet, the better because then you can make it a long time commitment...

This exactly is the reason why Crash Dieting doesn't work...

This is why during steroidcycles especially the anabolic kinds Proteinsupplementation is required in order not to keep a hard to maintain Diet (with for instance 600 grams of meat per day), not only that but to keep proteinintake suffecient so it doesn't form a bottleneck you will have to be very careful with what you eat since most High-Protein foods are also High Fat (eg Cheese)...

Not only to avoid "gain-bottlenecks" but studies with the Australian Army showed that if anabolic agents are used and protein intake is too low, the body will Synthesize proteins NO MATTER WHAT --> Meaning it will first use the Immune System as source followed by the Heart!!

But when is the best Time to take proteins and what kind is best...

Types:

Fast Acting Proteins:
e.g. Whey
--> if you are above 30 years old your body will benefit most from these types of protein

Slow Acting Proteins
Calcium Caseinate or Milkprotein
--> if you are under 30 years old your body will benefit most from these types of protein
(Especially very young individuals benefit from these proteins)


Time:
Studies have shown the three best times to take Proteins




First Thing in the morning:
A recent study showed that Fast acting proteins like Whey on an empty stomach cause Anabolic processes to occur!




1 hour After Work-Out:
The most common mistake is to take protein right after workout but this will cause at max 30% of the protein to be used properly the rest will be simply burned or worse stored as fat

Right after Workout the body can be 3 times as anabolic if supplied 0.8 times your weight in KG of Carbs...

When the GLUT404-bodies in your cell shut down (about 1 hour after training) your body will be craving for proteins and this is the best time of the day to supply them...




Before Sleep:
During sleep your body peaks at HGH-production you can stimulate and improve that proces by taking some slow acting Proteins like Milkprotein right before Bed...


The Best Formula (My friend a very specialized Ergonaut) studied these two blends to be most effective (without resorting to more designer, expensive and taste-like-crap stuff like bovine serum and the like)


For people above 30 years old)
70% Whey Protein Isolate Ion-exchange
5% Calcium Caseinate
15% Milk Protein Isolate
4% Soy Protein Isolate
6% Glutamine Peptides

Aminogen (+optional Vitamine mix)
these two options are available if you are ordering from Trueprotein or proteinfactory

For young individuals)
20% Whey Protein Isolate Ion-exchange
10% Calcium Caseinate
60% Milk Protein Isolate
4% Soy Protein Isolate
6% Glutamine Peptides

Aminogen (+optional Vitamine mix)
these two options are available if you are ordering from Trueprotein or proteinfactory


Sources:
1. Van Loon LJ, Kruijshoop M, Verhagen H, Saris WH, Wagenmakers AJ. Ingestion of Protein Hydrolysate and Amino Acid-Carbohydrate Mixtures Increases Postexercise Plasma Insulin Responses in Men. J Nutr 2000 Oct;130(10):2508-13.

2. Van Loon LJ, Saris WH, Kruijshoop M, Wagenmakers AJ. Maximizing postexercise muscle glycogen synthesis: carbohydrate supplementation and the application of amino acid or protein hydrolysate mixtures. Am J Clin Nutr 2000 Jul;72(1):106-11.

3. Pitkanen HT, Nykanen T, Knuutinen J, Lahti K, Keinanen O, Alen M, Komi PV, Mero AA. Free amino acid pool and muscle protein balance after resistance exercise. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 May;35(5):784-92.

4. Dangin M, Boirie Y, Guillet C, Beaufrere B. Influence of the protein digestion rate on protein turnover in young and elderly subjects. J Nutr 2002 Oct;132(10):3228S-33S.

5. Boirie Y, Dangin M, Gachon P, Vasson MP, Maubois JL, Beaufrere B. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1997 Dec 23;94(26):14930-5.

6. Dangin M, Boirie Y, Garcia-Rodenas C, Gachon P, Fauquant J, Callier P, Ballevre O, Beaufrere B. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001 Feb;280(2):E340-8.

[BASK8KACE]

This is a good, informative post for those who are trying to choose protien supplements.

Just keep in mind that the best protiens are not found in supplements. They are found in real foods--particularly meats such as chicken and beef. So, protein shakes and other protein supplements shouldn't be used as your main protien source. They should be used as a SUPPLEMENT to your main source, meats (etcetera).

[BigBoy21]

When you say MilkProtein, you just mean the protein in milk correct ? and you say that the body will use the immune system then the heart for protein????? WOW, i've gotta find some research on this... Good post..

[kingofmasters]

Yes it does you must keep in mind that steroids are powerful "messengers" and so protein are synthesized at all costs this is why soldiers in that experiment got tired and even heart failure....

Second off all --> That's not completely true what you say BASK8FACE, we havo now come to a stage that proteinsources are way better than protein found in food (if you have quality products) furthermore you can choose what kind you want!
Only the calcium in dairy is better than calcium in proteinpowders....

And Milkprotein is a proteinpowder form that is extracted from Milk

greets
Kingofmasters

[Ben Lifton]

...this would put be loading glucose/dextrose RIGHT AFTER exercise which would spike your insulin levels. Would this not then decrease, if not, wipe out the post-exercise GH release?

[moush]

good post, but i think that a good mix of proteins and carbs should be taken in after work out, but thats just me.

[powerlifter]

good post, but i think that a good mix of proteins and carbs should be taken in after work out, but thats just me.

I agree Bro

[the dent depot]

Wow...I always thought I had a 30min window to get my pro/carbs in after my w/o. So I should do carbs right away and pro 60min later?

Gracias,

D

[GearAholic]

good post bro it was a good read

[zx7racing]

thats the school of thought ive always followed? i'll use a PWO shake and a form of simple sugars (fruit, dextrose, etc..) but ive always had a protien shake or a meal within 30min of training?
nad to maintain the theme of keepinging a positive nitrogen balance durring the night, ive read that eating dairy along with a slow releasing protien helps stave off that evil catabolic state while sleeping.. for those who dont blow up after eating or drinking dairy...

Wow...I always thought I had a 30min window to get my pro/carbs in after my w/o. So I should do carbs right away and pro 60min later?

Gracias,

D

[the dent depot]

thats the school of thought ive always followed? i'll use a PWO shake and a form of simple sugars (fruit, dextrose, etc..) but ive always had a protien shake or a meal within 30min of training?
nad to maintain the theme of keepinging a positive nitrogen balance durring the night, ive read that eating dairy along with a slow releasing protien helps stave off that evil catabolic state while sleeping.. for those who dont blow up after eating or drinking dairy...

Yea, I do that as well...I make my 1st thing in the morning shakes and post w/o w/water and my right before ones w/milk.

D

sorry if thats worded improperly......this ECA has got me zinging....

[mman]

I'm confused for people over 30 you said whey protein is the best and for people under 30 you said slow acting proteins are better. Later on you recomend a protein mix that is 70% whey for those under 30, and a protein mix that is 20% whey for those over 30. Could you clarify which protein is better for each age group??

[zx7racing]

eca= shaky fingers..lol...
i mix my morning protien in with oatmeal ( 1 cup oatmeal, 1 tbl spoon PB- throw in microwave, pull it out slam in your powder.. fast as hell, good, and gets me everything i need to get going in the morn- i highly recommend it)...
as far as PWO, i try and get some extra carbs in, but its difficult if i havent already prepared a meal.. so its usally fruit and a shake.. this thread is leading me to believe i'm wrong though...
i know swolecat is a strong advocate of dextrose after training, and then having a Post- Post work out meal.. heres and attachment...

[kingofmasters]

I'm confused for people over 30 you said whey protein is the best and for people under 30 you said slow acting proteins are better. Later on you recomend a protein mix that is 70% whey for those under 30, and a protein mix that is 20% whey for those over 30. Could you clarify which protein is better for each age group??

Your totally right my mistake! --> edited it

so 70% whey is for above 30
60% milkprotein is for below 30

[kingofmasters]

Wow...I always thought I had a 30min window to get my pro/carbs in after my w/o. So I should do carbs right away and pro 60min later?

Gracias,

D

Yes that is exactly how it is intended --> The researches all mentioned that the common attitude in working out is protein+carbs right away but they showed with studies on rats, mices and humans that Carbs (0.8 times your bodyweight in KG) right after and protein one hour later is much more effective

[kingofmasters]

thats the school of thought ive always followed? i'll use a PWO shake and a form of simple sugars (fruit, dextrose, etc..) but ive always had a protien shake or a meal within 30min of training?
nad to maintain the theme of keepinging a positive nitrogen balance durring the night, ive read that eating dairy along with a slow releasing protien helps stave off that evil catabolic state while sleeping.. for those who dont blow up after eating or drinking dairy...

This is exactly what I'm saying --> Dairy mostly contains Milk protein and CalciumCaseinate this means SLOW proteins....

Taking a shake with those kind of proteins right before bed will prevent catabolic state and really stimulate GH release...

If Glutamine Peptides are used (as in the designer mix) 700% GH increase during sleep is not uncommon (will have to look up this study)...

Due to a PM that I got I will explain what I mean by "GAIN-bottlenecks" :

By this I mean that you do not hinder gain (so you maximize it) on a cycle, remember that everything is dependant on the weakest link (in economics its called a bottleneck cause no matter the size or width of the bottle, the fluids in it can not come out faster than the diameter of the Bottleneck) so if you take a lot of steroids but don't eat and train properly you won't maximize gains you will hinder it and therefore cause a bottleneck.

Proteins are a very decisive factor on a cycle --> And like I explained during a heavy anabolic cycle, protein defficiency can be very dangerous (this is one of the reasons that there is such a stigma on Juicing --> due to Unexperienced Naive young boys who use steroids but don't eat properly or take other precautions and therefore getting health problems).

Greets

Kingofmasters

[BWhitaker]

Im curious if we all believe that we need pro/carb right after a workout because it is what we are told or because it is right. I also wonder how legitamate this study is. What do the vet/mods think.

[kingofmasters]

It is what is most common but with most things in life people do it untiel they find something better or discover its dangerous, as is with for instance Benzene which for many years people thought was the best Cleaning fluid until they discovered it was very carcinogous...

As to the credibility of my story --> as a scientist should, I put all sources on the page (most can be looked up through PUBMED) and almost all these studies are with humans and all variables are left out so the only factor is the impact of proteins (times, dosages, kinds) on the Human Body....

So Just trying to help you Bros out there...

Kingofmasters

[BWhitaker]

I appreciate the studies and i agree with you about finding something better. Dont get me wrong, i wasnt being a prick just skeptical and critical.

[kingofmasters]

I know bro greatly appreciate your input
(read my Title in the previous post It says: Finally some criticism)

greets
Kingofmasters

[dizzle]

Interesting read.

[craneboy]

good post, thanks

[kingofmasters]

No problem Bros,

Just doing my part to keep AR alive and great!

greets

Kingofmasters

[Powrlftr]

Right after Workout the body can be 3 times as anabolic if supplied 0.8 times your weight in KG of Carbs...

Hmmm .... let's see .... I'm 105 KG ... mult that by 0.8 ..... so I should eat 84 KG of carbs after my workout?

That's going to be tough ...... even 84g of carbs would be hard

[cpt steele]

Dextrose maltodextrose

[kingofmasters]

Hmmm .... let's see .... I'm 105 KG ... mult that by 0.8 ..... so I should eat 84 KG of carbs after my workout?

That's going to be tough ...... even 84g of carbs would be hard

LMAO

I mean in grams of course, so you shoulk consume 84 grams, thats not very hard to do so about 800 ml of softdrink (4 glasses) at places like Fitness First and Cannons drinks are free so why not!

greets

Kingofmasters